This Board....

[152219]

Here is my post

I'll list it out for you....OU seed first, opponent next

'95- 4-13 (loss)
'96- 10-7 (loss)
'97- 11-6 (loss)
'98- 10-7 (loss)
'99- 13-4 (win), 13-5 (win), 13-1 (loss)
'00- 3-14 (win), 3-6 (loss)
'01- 4-13 (loss)
'02- Final four as a #2 seed (the #5 seed in the tournament)
'03- Elite 8 as a #1 seed (lost to #3 seed)
'04- no tourney
'05- 3-14 (win), 3-6 (loss)
'06- 6-11 (loss)

So, that is 5 years in which they played below their seed ('95, '00, '01, '05, and '06), 3 times in which they lost to a slightly higher seed in the first round ('96, '97, and '98), one year in which they uber-overachieved ('99), and two years in which they essentially played to their seed ('02 and '03, you could make a slight argument '02 was an overachieve and '03 was an under due to the seedings, but IMO, OU deserved a #1 seed in '02 and not Cincy and they were a #2 seed in '03 and not a #1)

 

[152219]

OU's record as a #4 seed under Tubbs and Sampson is 1-4 all-time.

Tubbs was 1-2 and Sampson was 0-2...that is not good.

 

[seniorsooner]

The loss to Indiana in the final 4 is the 2nd worst loss I have ever experienced as an OU basketball fan.

 

[152219]

The loss to Indiana in the final 4 is the 2nd worst loss I have ever experienced as an OU basketball fan.

The '88 NC game was such a gut punch that sour taste will not go away until OU wins a title in hoops.

 

[152219]

These were my four years at OU

'96- 10-7 (loss)
'97- 11-6 (loss)
'98- 10-7 (loss)
'99- 13-4 (win), 13-5 (win), 13-1 (loss)

What stinks is that I missed the two tourney wins...was on grad school interviews and wasn't able to watch either game, but my girlfriend (wife now) was giving me constant updates.

Was on a different interview for the MSU game, but did get to catch that one (in a Dallas mansion). LOL

 

[AdaSooner]

I'm new to this board. MPS directed me this way after requesting a sane, knowledgeable OU basketball board. It seems most people are pretty sane over here.

I would equate OUI to the lowest common denominator of OU fans. Its what all oSu & Texas fans wish/think we were/are.

And you believed her, Soonerroby? :ez-laugh:

Welcome to the board! Things have been a little crazy around here the past few days. But I think you'll find this is not a bad place to hang out and talk hoops.

I'll add that when posters can carry on a civil conversation about Coach Sampson and Coach Capel, as members have done so far on this thread, that's a good sign that order has been restored. Hopefully, I won't have to eat my words and lock it later on. lol

 

[NickZepp]

The only Kelvin 1st round loss that REALLY bothered me was Indiana State. Good god that was a bad team we lost to that day.

I'm sorta glad we lost that one because without Hollis we woulda been killed in the 2nd round.

 

[WaymanFan]

What Sampson and Tubbs teams underperformed in the Tournament? I suspect you don't like that the 89 team lost to Virginia or that the 90 team lost to North Carolina. I would also guess you don't like that the 95 team lost to Manhatten and the 2001 team lost to Indiana State (was it 2001, that is definitely the opponent). Honestly, two upsets in the tournament for each coach is a lot easier to take than two years of no post season play and that is where I see this team heading.

I would personally give Tubbs a slight notch above Sampson but they were both great for OU basketball.

Ah, those "revisionist theory" posts. I always bragged (and still do) that OU had two great coaches in a row who we fans should be grateful for. With that said, they were both below average in March. There's no point in spinning that. Billy Tubbs also lost to a #10 seed as a #2 seed and to a #12 seed as a #4 seed. Kelvin lost 5 times by double-digits, three of them as a HIGHER SEED. The two combined to lose 14 times to lower-seeded opponents.

Jeff Capel, on the other hand, is a PERFECT 4-0 against teams he should be beating in March.

Back on topic, yes this board is definitely better than OUInsider for basketball. No question about it. There are quite a few knowledgeable basketball posters on this board. It hasn't been a fun year, so there is expected to be a lot of irrational posts. Once "something good" happens, I expect things will get better here.

 

[152219]

Only fair I do this for Tubbs' too

'83- 7-10 (win), 7-2 (loss)-Played to seed
'84- 2-10 (loss)=Big time upset
'85- Elite Eight, was the #1 seed and lost to #2 seed (Memphis State)-Essentially played to seed
'86- 4-13 (win), 4-12 (loss) -Minor upset
'87- 6-11 (win), 6-3 (win), 6-2 (loss)-Overachieved
'88- Runner-up as a #1 seed- Played to seed
'89- 1-16 (win), 1-9 (win), 1-5 (loss) Minor Upset and almost lost the 1-16 game
'90- 1-16 (win), 1-8 (loss)Upset
'92- 4-12 (loss)-Upset

 

[jwg]

Denver post is unfair to Bruce Drake.... first it does not consider the decline in his last years. I saw his last team... The tallest player was 6-3 no one on the team could dunk the ball, they had two good small guards, Lane and Peck. The schedules were different then, there were far fewer cup cakes, and the number of games played were fewer. A better indication of his record were the number of conference championships ( shared or otherwise) I think there were 6.

In regard to overachieving or underachieving in the NCAA.
If you have a #1 seed you should make the final four
If you have a #2 seed you should make the elite eight
If you have a #3 or #4 you should make the sweet 16
If you have a #5 you can make the sweet 16 by beating a #4 and #12
If you have a #8 or #9 you are likely to have a short tournament , you are much better off with a #10-#13
If you are lower that #13 you aren't a BCS school.

Samson should have 2 elite 8 and 1 final four based on his seedings this is what he had.. not the same years and 6 sweet 16's rather than the 3 he obtained.

Tubbs should have had four final fours , 5 elite 8's , and 7 sweet 16's rather than the 1 final four, two elite 8's and 4 sweet 16's he actually had.

It seems to me there records are pretty similar. but Samson under performs less than Tubbs.

 

[152219]

As someone pointed out above, Capel has made the tournament twice and both teams have played to their seed. And no, there is no implication that Capel is OU's best coach, just simply stating the numbers in the tourney.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

As someone pointed out above, Capel has made the tournament twice and both teams have played to their seed. And no, there is no implication that Capel is OU's best coach, just simply stating the numbers in the tourney.

Up until this season, this was something you could prettty much bank on with Capel...he beat the teams he was supposed to beat and lost to the teams he was supposed to lose to [for the most part].

 

[IndySooner]

These were my four years at OU

'96- 10-7 (loss)
'97- 11-6 (loss)
'98- 10-7 (loss)
'99- 13-4 (win), 13-5 (win), 13-1 (loss)

What stinks is that I missed the two tourney wins...was on grad school interviews and wasn't able to watch either game, but my girlfriend (wife now) was giving me constant updates.

Was on a different interview for the MSU game, but did get to catch that one (in a Dallas mansion). LOL

This makes us the exact same age which explains why I have the exact same sentiments on all of this that you do, I suppose.

I was at The Commons for the Arizona win. I was at South Padre for the Charlotte win. I was at a house near campus for the MSU loss.

 

[152219]

This makes us the exact same age which explains why I have the exact same sentiments on all of this that you do, I suppose.

I was at The Commons for the Arizona win. I was at South Padre for the Charlotte win. I was at a house near campus for the MSU loss.

LOL...I usually tell people that my four years at OU were...

Schnellenberger
Blake
Blake
Blake

Only class in history to go through OU WITHOUT a winning football team.

I was at Yale for the first two rounds....celebrated both wins at least with some beers

 

[SoonerfanTU]

As someone pointed out above, Capel has made the tournament twice and both teams have played to their seed. And no, there is no implication that Capel is OU's best coach, just simply stating the numbers in the tourney.

True. Pretty small sample size of TWO years to draw much from that though. And not making the tourney is more of a negative then making it and not advancing, or being upset, or any of that jazz. To me at least. If you don't make the tournament, you weren't good at all. If you make it and lose, at least you can point to having a good regular season. My guess is that if you campare most teams around the country, OU didn't underachieve during, say, the Sampson years, anymore then most other teams. Upsets happen.

 

[152219]

True. Pretty small sample size of TWO years to draw much from that though. And not making the tourney is more of a negative then making it and not advancing, or being upset, or any of that jazz. To me at least. If you don't make the tournament, you weren't good at all. If you make it and lose, at least you can point to having a good regular season. My guess is that if you campare most teams around the country, OU didn't underachieve during, say, the Sampson years, anymore then most other teams. Upsets happen.

It is definitely a small sample size...no one in their right mind would refute that. This year has definitely been disappointing.

Upsets seem to happen a lot with Sampson (and Tubbs) though....5 years in which they didn't play to their seed, and 3 other first round losses to slightly higher ranked teams, and one missed tourney, that is 9 out of his 12 years here.

 

[NickZepp]

When they were a 3 seed they usually lost to what a 6 seed? I bet a 6 seed goes to the Sweet 16 a lot more than anyone would think. Seems like there's about 6 seeds in the S16 every year. That's not really an upset.

 

[WaymanFan]

True. Pretty small sample size of TWO years to draw much from that though. And not making the tourney is more of a negative then making it and not advancing, or being upset, or any of that jazz. To me at least. If you don't make the tournament, you weren't good at all. If you make it and lose, at least you can point to having a good regular season. My guess is that if you campare most teams around the country, OU didn't underachieve during, say, the Sampson years, anymore then most other teams. Upsets happen.

It's subjective. Personally, I would rather be 4-2 in the NCAA Tournament after four seasons than 0-4. You would rather be 0-4. Guess what? We're both right. It's all a matter of what you want or expect as a fan. The excitement I experienced in 2008 after OU FINALLY beat an opponent in the 1st round who was relatively equal to OU, and the experience I enjoyed watching us play for the opportunity to go to the Final Four last season was worth it (to me) not making the Tourney the other two years. I personally get little satisfaction going to the Dance and losing in the 1st round unless we're a huge underdog. But, again, that's just me. I understand and respect the fact there are different perspectives.

 

[152219]

When they were a 3 seed they usually lost to what a 6 seed? I bet a 6 seed goes to the Sweet 16 a lot more than anyone would think. Seems like there's about 6 seeds in the S16 every year. That's not really an upset.

But both times? Come on. That is NOT playing to your seed.

 

[152219]

It's subjective. Personally, I would rather be 4-2 in the NCAA Tournament after four seasons than 0-4. You would rather be 0-4. Guess what? We're both right. It's all a matter of what you want or expect as a fan. The excitement I experienced in 2008 after OU FINALLY beat an opponent in the 1st round who was relatively equal to OU, and the experience I enjoyed watching us play for the opportunity to go to the Final Four last season was worth it (to me) not making the Tourney the other two years. I personally get little satisfaction going to the Dance and losing in the 1st round unless we're a huge underdog. But, again, that's just me. I understand and respect the fact there are different perspectives.

Think about what this board would have been like if it was around in 1984. OU was a #2 seed and ranked #7 according to the AP poll. They entered with a sophomore named Wayman Tisdale who was already a 2 time consensus All-American, Choo and Tim Mcallister were freshman, and that OU team was upset in their first round game by #10 seed Dayton. This board would have exploded.