Was Cobbins Really a Big Lose?

[SoonerBounce13]

I mean it hurts to lose a body but you heard pokes using this as an excuse for not being as good before the stevie clark and smart issues.

Let's look at his production. I know it's hard to measure defense but

Player A stats/40": 63% FG, 67% FT, 9.3 rpg,.5 apg,4.7 blocks, .5 spg, 14 ppg

Player B stats/40": 50% FG, 47% FT, 8.8 rpg,.8 apg,3.0 blocks, 1.2 spg, 9.1 ppg

 

[Seymore Cox]

Huge loss. Loss in leadership, loss in the fact no one else on that team is a shot blocker, loss in the fact that Murphy and Nash and been foul machines.

 

[hoopsaustin]

not a big deal imo.. ford doesnt even use big guys pretty much at all.. just another "run of the mill" excuse for the pokes underachieving as usual..

 

[Chaser728]

I was wondering this the other day while listening to ESPN talk about Smart's recent anger outbursts. They kept going back to how this season has not been what he expected it to be (which I agree with); but they mentioned that this team lost the ability to be a final four team when they lost Cobbins. I just don't buy that... You have I believe it is 3 mcdonalds AA in your team... And at least 3 future NBA players, maybe only 2, depending on how Nash turns out. Do they have a big presence in the paint? No, but as hoopsAusin points out: when has Ford ever really used a big guy?

 

[stomoney]

I do believe Cobbins was a very big loss for the Pokes. It's not always about production -- numbers-wise. Cobbins was a very good role guy, glue guy if that works for you. Solid rim protector, good team defender, set screens, worked hard. Those things do matter. The difference between him and Murphy probably isn't huge. But the rotation was ruined inside when they lost Cobbins. The gap between Murphy and Soucek is enormous. That's where the loss hurts the most. And now, when Murphy OR Nash get in foul trouble, they can either go Soucek or go small. Defensively, that's a big difference.

Now, could a competent coach make some adjustments to soften the blow? Absolutely. But Ford is clearly in over his head. We can all agree on that.

I just don't think we can put on blinders about the impact of losing Cobbins (and Clark for that matter -- they were 8 deep and only 8 deep). It does matter.

 

[thebigabd]

I don't think it was a very big deal. Undersized forward who averaged 4/4. He was pretty overrated, imo.

Good athlete though... but, if he is such a good athlete why did he suck on the boards? 4 rebounds per game for the only "post" presence they have?

 

[NickZepp]

OSU just isn't a deep team. They basically have walk-ons playing off the bench now. Cobbins was probably their best big guy, but not by much. Where his loss hurts is that they have to basically play their starters more because their backups suck.

 

[dubyac]

Loss because of depth & minutes.... not really production or leadership.. its Smart's team. Has been since he stepped on campus...

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Player A is DJ Bennett
Player B is Cobbins

 

[oukyle]

Player A is DJ Bennett
Player B is Cobbins

That was pretty obvious.

Cobbins is much better than his stats in 13 games showed and way more valuable to OSU in terms of depth than Bennett is to OU. Even still, losing Bennett would be a big blow to OU as well.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

That was pretty obvious.

Cobbins is much better than his stats in 13 games showed and way more valuable to OSU in terms of depth than Bennett is to OU. Even still, losing Bennett would be a big blow to OU as well.

Is he way better than his career stats show? Bc they aren't much better than 14 stats.

I just find it humerus that losing a 4 ppg 4 rpg player is what causes you to not be a ff team anymore.


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[hoopsaustin]

Is he way better than his career stats show? Bc they aren't much better than 14 stats.

I just find it humerus that losing a 4 ppg 4 rpg player is what causes you to not be a ff team anymore.


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wow... im agreeing with bounce... thats not a good omen for you oukyle

 

[NickZepp]

OSU might have been a final 4 team if the guard play was consistent. But that's been a problem for them since about conference play.

 

[DenverSooner]

I think it was a big loss. He was the best post player and it really hurt their depth.

I think OU losing Bennett would impact OU and Bennett is not nearly as important to OU as Cobbins is to OSU. Even guys like Bennett that play limited minutes are important for practice and to provide rest for the starter.

 

[oukyle]

Is he way better than his career stats show? Bc they aren't much better than 14 stats.

I just find it humerus that losing a 4 ppg 4 rpg player is what causes you to not be a ff team anymore.


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Let's see. As a Sophomore, he was a 5 and 6 guy and last year as a Junior, he was a 7 and 6 guy. So yeah, that is quite a bit better than 4 and 4 as a Senior.

Losing Hield was a big blow to OU last year and he was a 8 and 4 guy at a position where we had depth.

Anytime you lose a major rotation guy it has much deeper effects than just his production. It causes other guys to have to play more minutes and OSU doesn't have quality depth inside, so yes I would say it is a big loss. And they were preseason 8/12 so let's not act like they were predicted by everyone to be a final four team.

 

[oSuJeff97]

As others have pointed out, it wasn't just about losing his specific points/rebounding production, it was about losing a starter and changing the roles of everyone on the bench.

We went from a situation of having practically zero drop-off in talent/ability from our starting center (Cobbins) to our backup (Murphy), to a situation where there was/is a massive drop-off in talent/ability from the starter (Murphy) to the next guy(s) (Gaskings/Soucek).

And then there were the intangibles that Cobbins brought to the floor.

I think that stuff is over-rated a lot of the time, but in certain cases, it's absolutely true.

Another great OSU example is the 2004 team vs. the 2005 team. The '05 team had everything that the '04 team had... except Tony Allen.

His on-court production was replaced by others, but his presence on the floor, that gave that '04 team an edge, wasn't replaced and they just weren't as good because of it.

Cobbins obviously isn't Tony Allen, but, like Allen, his presence on the floor makes the team better, beyond his actual production.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Let's see. As a Sophomore, he was a 5 and 6 guy and last year as a Junior, he was a 7 and 6 guy. So yeah, that is quite a bit better than 4 and 4 as a Senior.

he was playing 7 more minutes a game more as a soph and junior

 

[stormspencer]

According to Kenpom, he was a pretty significant loss....at least with respect to their defense. OSU's adjusted Def rating is currently at 51. Their adjusted Def rating in late December/early January was top 20. Their eFG% (effective FG% defense) has also worsened over the same time period. Cobbins was their most consistent rim protector and by not having him in there, teams are more easily getting to the rim....at least that is what you can conclude from the stats.

 

[oSuJeff97]

According to Kenpom, he was a pretty significant loss....at least with respect to their defense. OSU's adjusted Def rating is currently at 51. Their adjusted Def rating in late December/early January was top 20. Their eFG% (effective FG% defense) has also worsened over the same time period. Cobbins was their most consistent rim protector and by not having him in there, teams are more easily getting to the rim....at least that is what you can conclude from the stats.

This exactly.

But it also goes back to what I was saying earlier. It wasn't just about Cobbins, specifically. He was averaging about 1.5 blocks per game, and Murphy currently averages about 1.4.

It was about having both of them doing their thing. We had a great rim defender in the game practically at all times.

Now, when Murphy goes out, either for rest or foul trouble, we have nobody who can protect the rim.

 

[oukyle]

he was playing 7 more minutes a game more as a soph and junior

He had played only 13 games this year. He fouled out in quick order in 2 of those and was hurt 3 minutes in in another. In short, a guy that shows steady improvement from 5 and 6 to 7 and 6 is not going to just regress back to 4 and 4. You are working with a small sample size and the fact he was averaging 4 and 4 does not change the player that he is.

I notice you didn't respond to the point that losing Hield last year (an 8 and 4 guy) was a huge blow for OU.

I also notice that you have yet to account for the fact that there are other aspects to basketball than what shows up in the points and rebounds column. His loss affected OSU a significant amount and to argue otherwise is just foolhardy.