Weekly Polls Thread - Week 19 *polls pending

[stormspencer]

Arky is almost certain to remain a quad 3 win. They’d have to move up 20 spots to get to the bottom of quad 2, and I don’t think that would really make much of a difference. USC actually is only a few spots below the quad 2 cutoff. Iowa would have to make a very good run to move into the top 50.

Yes.....the piggies flat out stink (they got blown out again today). Iowa is the one team that, if they get their crap together, could sneak into the top 50 by seasons end....but I'm not counting on it.

 

[BoulderSooner]

WEEK 14 POLLS

Team	AP	Coaches	KenPom	BPI	SOR	SOS	RPI	NET
KU	4​	4​	12​	15​	4​	17​	7​	10​
UH	5​	5​	1​	1​	3​	32​	3​	1​
BU	13​	13​	16​	16​	12​	19​	22​	15​
ISU	14	14​	14​	8​	19​	48​	38​	11​
BYU	21	19​	9​	14​	25​	64​	40​	7​
TT	23	23​	32​	32​	24​	62​	37​	33​
TCU	27	28​	29​	23​	27​	49​	72​	36​
UT	32	36​	26​	21​	29​	28​	52​	31​
OU	33​	31​	25​	27​	26​	45​	53​	32​
CIN	NR	NR​	30​	26​	45​	50​	54​	30​
UCF	NR	NR​	69​	55​	76​	60​	81​	67​
KSU	NR	NR​	75​	62​	58​	39​	90​	83​
osu	NR	NR​	123​	125​	158​	67​	196​	139​
WVU	NR	NR​	136​	138​	148​	18​	164​	144​

 

[BoulderSooner]

10 of the top 32 Kenpom and 10 of top 36 NET is crazy

 

[TINY]

Being ranked behind Gonzaga in the NET is another bizarre one. OU has the same record against a significantly harder schedule. Zags are 0-5 in Q1. They are 3-6 against q1/2 while ou is 7-6.

It is my opinion that the NET needs to be tweaked, perhaps significantly. Margin of victory should not really be weighted much unless it is against good teams. There is nothing elite about beating up on a lot of quad 4 teams. The tournament field should be made up of teams who have proven they can beat tournament quality teams. To this point, Gonzaga has proven they cannot beat tournament quality teams.

 

[sooner333]

Being ranked behind Gonzaga in the NET is another bizarre one. OU has the same record against a significantly harder schedule. Zags are 0-5 in Q1. They are 3-6 against q1/2 while ou is 7-6.

It is my opinion that the NET needs to be tweaked, perhaps significantly. Margin of victory should not really be weighted much unless it is against good teams. There is nothing elite about beating up on a lot of quad 4 teams. The tournament field should be made up of teams who have proven they can beat tournament quality teams. To this point, Gonzaga has proven they cannot beat tournament quality teams.

Any metric (or poll for that matter) you come up with is likely to have some wonky results. The NET isn't really perfect, but I don't know what is. What should probably change is the committee's heavy reliance on one metric over others (NET has kind of taken the place of the RPI).

 

[WichitaSooner]

Being ranked behind Gonzaga in the NET is another bizarre one. OU has the same record against a significantly harder schedule. Zags are 0-5 in Q1. They are 3-6 against q1/2 while ou is 7-6.

It is my opinion that the NET needs to be tweaked, perhaps significantly. Margin of victory should not really be weighted much unless it is against good teams. There is nothing elite about beating up on a lot of quad 4 teams. The tournament field should be made up of teams who have proven they can beat tournament quality teams. To this point, Gonzaga has proven they cannot beat tournament quality teams.

Right now they are on the same level as us because their noncon schedule was so much better. As the conference play continues, that advantage will fade for them because noncon will make up a smaller percentage of their overcall schedule. In any event, most experts think that as of now, they probably wouldn’t make it. If they don’t pick up a quad one win or two, they’ll likely need to win their tourney to get in.

I can see both sides of the scoring margin issue. I think the data does show that truly good teams tend to pummel bad opponents, so there is some use to it, but in college hoops, the awful teams are so bad that it maybe shouldn’t carry a ton of weight. In any event, that factor is probably one of the biggest things in our favor this year. We blew out the dregs of our schedule, so that’s helping prop us up a bit.

 

[TINY]

Right now they are on the same level as us because their noncon schedule was so much better. As the conference play continues, that advantage will fade for them because noncon will make up a smaller percentage of their overcall schedule. In any event, most experts think that as of now, they probably wouldn’t make it. If they don’t pick up a quad one win or two, they’ll likely need to win their tourney to get in.

I can see both sides of the scoring margin issue. I think the data does show that truly good teams tend to pummel bad opponents, so there is some use to it, but in college hoops, the awful teams are so bad that it maybe shouldn’t carry a ton of weight. In any event, that factor is probably one of the biggest things in our favor this year. We blew out the dregs of our schedule, so that’s helping prop us up a bit.

Kenpom SOS (current)
OU - 64
Zags - 136

Unless the net ranks SOS wildly different than KP, then I don’t think non conference schedules are the significant NET metric in favor of Gonzaga here.

To me it has to be margin of victory/margin of loss. Gonzaga seems to be getting a lot of mileage in the NET by beating crummy wcc teams by 35.

MOV (current)
Zags- 7
OU - 23

 

[WichitaSooner]

Kenpom SOS (current)
OU - 64
Zags - 136

Unless the net ranks SOS wildly different than KP, then I don’t think non conference schedules are the significant NET metric in favor of Gonzaga here.

To me it has to be margin of victory/margin of loss. Gonzaga seems to be getting a lot of mileage in the NET by beating crummy wcc teams by 35.

MOV (current)
Zags- 7
OU - 23

The team sheets show that their noncon SOS was around 40, and ours was 280-something. As of now, noncon still makes up more than half the overall schedule, so a gap that big is certainly playing a pretty big factor in helping them.

 

[TINY]

The team sheets show that their noncon SOS was around 40, and ours was 280-something. As of now, noncon still makes up more than half the overall schedule, so a gap that big is certainly playing a pretty big factor in helping them.

The KP sos is inclusive of all games played. Ou’s conference schedule has not only made up for the gap in the non con but far surpassed the Zags schedule difficulty. Put them next to each other and it isn’t even close.

 

[WichitaSooner]

The KP sos is inclusive of all games played. Ou’s conference schedule has not only made up for the gap in the non con but far surpassed the Zags schedule difficulty. Put them next to each other and it isn’t even close.

Yes, our conference schedule is far better. Yes, our overall schedule is better. BUT . . . their noncon is why the overall profiles are closer than they would otherwise be. If the two teams had played similar noncons AND we had the massive edge we do in league schedules, we would be ahead of them by a fair amount.

 

[stormspencer]

Being ranked behind Gonzaga in the NET is another bizarre one. OU has the same record against a significantly harder schedule. Zags are 0-5 in Q1. They are 3-6 against q1/2 while ou is 7-6.

It is my opinion that the NET needs to be tweaked, perhaps significantly. Margin of victory should not really be weighted much unless it is against good teams. There is nothing elite about beating up on a lot of quad 4 teams. The tournament field should be made up of teams who have proven they can beat tournament quality teams. To this point, Gonzaga has proven they cannot beat tournament quality teams.

I would think of the NET as a sorting tool, rather than a power ranking. Our NET rating is much less important than our opponent's NET rating. There is somewhat of a direct correlation, but the committee seems more concerned with who you actually play/win in NET....rather than where you are actually rated. It's a bit of circular logic....but it is what it is.

As for the Zags....they are in trouble. They have ZERO Q-1 wins and only a few opportunities left....starting this weekend at Kentucky. They will have another Q-1 game at St. Mary's at the end of the season. If they don't win at least one of those games (probably need to win both to feel safe), then they are going to have to win the WCC tournament to make the big tournament. Kinda strange to say that knowing how good they've been for so long.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Yes, our conference schedule is far better. Yes, our overall schedule is better. BUT . . . their noncon is why the overall profiles are closer than they would otherwise be. If the two teams had played similar noncons AND we had the massive edge we do in league schedules, we would be ahead of them by a fair amount.

I think you are completely missing the point. We are looking at real data, not hypotheticals. IF OU was undefeated we would be ahead of them by a fair amount

 

[WichitaSooner]

I think you are completely missing the point. We are looking at real data, not hypotheticals. IF OU was undefeated we would be ahead of them by a fair amount

Is this that tough to understand? I mean, the team sheets are available to see. The "real data" is that their noncon was way better than ours, and that is a big reason their profile is in the same ballpark as ours. The OP asked how they could be in the same range as us despite not having quad one wins. There is nothing hypothetical about my point. I could care less about Gonzaga. I don't know why people are so reluctant to accept a factual answer. The fact is that their noncon SOS is a benefit to them. This isn't rocket science.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I would think of the NET as a sorting tool, rather than a power ranking. Our NET rating is much less important than our opponent's NET rating. There is somewhat of a direct correlation, but the committee seems more concerned with who you actually play/win in NET....rather than where you are actually rated. It's a bit of circular logic....but it is what it is.

As for the Zags....they are in trouble. They have ZERO Q-1 wins and only a few opportunities left....starting this weekend at Kentucky. They will have another Q-1 game at St. Mary's at the end of the season. If they don't win at least one of those games (probably need to win both to feel safe), then they are going to have to win the WCC tournament to make the big tournament. Kinda strange to say that knowing how good they've been for so long.

Thank goodness someone else gets it.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Is this that tough to understand? I mean, the team sheets are available to see. The "real data" is that their noncon was way better than ours, and that is a big reason their profile is in the same ballpark as ours. The OP asked how they could be in the same range as us despite not having quad one wins. There is nothing hypothetical about my point. I could care less about Gonzaga. I don't know why people are so reluctant to accept a factual answer. The fact is that their noncon SOS is a benefit to them. This isn't rocket science.

No, the facts are that our SOS overall is a lot better than theirs is right now. SOS is not a valid reason why they are in the same ball park right now. This is completely missing the discussion at hand. The "real data" is that while our non conf was lacking compared to theirs, our conference SOS outranks there by so much that our overall SOS is vastly superior. Your point would only make sense if our overall SOS were very similar. At that point you could say we are in the same NET ball park because our non conf was so weak.

Bottom line, our weak nonconf SOS is not a valid reason for why we are so close in NET because our overall SOS is much higher than theirs.

 

[stormspencer]

No, the facts are that our SOS overall is a lot better than theirs is right now. SOS is not a valid reason why they are in the same ball park right now. This is completely missing the discussion at hand. The "real data" is that while our non conf was lacking compared to theirs, our conference SOS outranks there by so much that our overall SOS is vastly superior. Your point would only make sense if our overall SOS were very similar. At that point you could say we are in the same NET ball park because our non conf was so weak.

Bottom line, our weak nonconf SOS is not a valid reason for why we are so close in NET because our overall SOS is much higher than theirs.

Here is a better visual explanation of NET.....I actually prefer visuals.

 

[WichitaSooner]

No, the facts are that our SOS overall is a lot better than theirs is right now. SOS is not a valid reason why they are in the same ball park right now. This is completely missing the discussion at hand. The "real data" is that while our non conf was lacking compared to theirs, our conference SOS outranks there by so much that our overall SOS is vastly superior. Your point would only make sense if our overall SOS were very similar. At that point you could say we are in the same NET ball park because our non conf was so weak.

Bottom line, our weak nonconf SOS is not a valid reason for why we are so close in NET because our overall SOS is much higher than theirs.

Again, I don't care whether you think a factor should matter. The reality is that their noncon is helping their overall schedule strength. Yes, for the 400th time, I understand that our overall SOS is better than theirs based on how much better our league is. Yay us! But it really shouldn't be tough to grasp that their noncon allows them to be closer to us in SOS than they otherwise would be. Add in the fact that they are better than us in some of the metrics, and that's how they can overall be right by us in the overall NET.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Again, I don't care whether you think a factor should matter. The reality is that their noncon is helping their overall schedule strength. Yes, for the 400th time, I understand that our overall SOS is better than theirs based on how much better our league is. Yay us! But it really shouldn't be tough to grasp that their noncon allows them to be closer to us in SOS than they otherwise would be. Add in the fact that they are better than us in some of the metrics, and that's how they can overall be right by us in the overall NET.

lol ok. I give up

I like how you are now resorting to our conference being tough as a mocking point now. Like wth man...why are you even here?

 

[BoulderSooner]

the athletic has OU back in the top 25

CJ Moore's Top 25: A true Big 2

Purdue and UConn have established themselves as the best two teams in the country, and it all revolves around their centers.

theathletic.com

 

[Boom Soon]

the athletic has OU back in the top 25

CJ Moore's Top 25: A true Big 2

Purdue and UConn have established themselves as the best two teams in the country, and it all revolves around their centers.

theathletic.com

Seems reasonable.