What's the minimum length of a rookie contract?

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Obviously you know where I am going with this question. At the very least, how many years will he have to carry the Clippers while Davis and Randolph cash their checks? When is the earliest he can sign with a contender or sign with OKC? Hopefully by that time the terms contender and OKC will not be mutually exclusive.
 
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Obviously you know where I am going with this question. Blake could sign a longer contract. But, at the very least, how many years will he have to carry the Clippers while Davis and Randolph cash their checks? When is the earliest he can sign with a contender or sign with OKC? Hopefully by that time the terms contender and OKC will not be mutually exclusive.
He can't sign a longer contract. The contract for a first round pick is structured as follows:
Year 1--guaranteed
Year 2--guaranteed
Year 3--team option
Year 4--team option

After the fourth year, the player can agree to an extension or become a restricted free agent or accept a one-year qualifying offer for a fifth season, after which he becomes an unrestricted free agent.

Edit: I believe the extension negotiation can begin after the third year, but it doesn't kick in until the end of the fourth year.
 
The standard rookie deal is a four year deal with the last two years being team options. The end of the deal ends with restricted free agency, which is why almost every decent rookie re-signs with the team that drafted him. After that, I think all max-contract players roll their extension into a 4 year deal with the fourth year being a player option (think Wade and LeBron). This gives the player their closest thing to a true free market opportunity.

My guess is Blake is a Clipper for at least the first seven years of his career.
 
The standard rookie deal is a four year deal with the last two years being team options. The end of the deal ends with restricted free agency, which is why almost every decent rookie re-signs with the team that drafted him. After that, I think all max-contract players roll their extension into a 4 year deal with the fourth year being a player option (think Wade and LeBron). This gives the player their closest thing to a true free market opportunity.

My guess is Blake is a Clipper for at least the first seven years of his career.

I seriously doubt that Blake is with the Clippers past his rookie contract if they don't have some sort of unexpected success. Who was the last guy to sign with them again after being there a few years?

If he is an All Star by that year it will be VERY difficult for the Clippers to keep him.
 
He can't sign a longer contract. The contract for a first round pick is structured as follows:
Year 1--guaranteed
Year 2--guaranteed
Year 3--team option
Year 4--team option

After the fourth year, the player can agree to an extension or become a restricted free agent or accept a one-year qualifying offer for a fifth season, after which he becomes an unrestricted free agent.

Edit: I believe the extension negotiation can begin after the third year, but it doesn't kick in until the end of the fourth year.

lol...I knew there were two people that would reply to this thread...

You are right on with the extension...they are usually wrapped up after the third year (like Chris Paul and Deron Williams) but don't go into effect until the end of the fourth year.

Smash, do you have trouble explaining to people how understanding contracts and the cap is one of the keys to truly enjoying NBA basketball?
 
The standard rookie deal is a four year deal with the last two years being team options. The end of the deal ends with restricted free agency, which is why almost every decent rookie re-signs with the team that drafted him. After that, I think all max-contract players roll their extension into a 4 year deal with the fourth year being a player option (think Wade and LeBron). This gives the player their closest thing to a true free market opportunity.

My guess is Blake is a Clipper for at least the first seven years of his career.
I think Wade and LeBron's extension lengths were unique in that they wanted to make sure they could opt-out in 2010 and get new deals before the new Collective Bargaining Agreement. I'm pretty sure Melo signed a longer extension than the other 2003 draft class members.
 
lol...I knew there were two people that would reply to this thread...

You are right on with the extension...they are usually wrapped up after the third year (like Chris Paul and Deron Williams) but don't go into effect until the end of the fourth year.

Smash, do you have trouble explaining to people how understanding contracts and the cap is one of the keys to truly enjoying NBA basketball?
It is wasted effort. Once people get an idea of how the salary cap works, they go to the NBA Trade Machine on ESPN or RealGM and concoct trades that work monetarily but make no sense from a basketball standpoint. I think Isiah Thomas and Kevin McHale did this in real life.
 
I seriously doubt that Blake is with the Clippers past his rookie contract if they don't have some sort of unexpected success. Who was the last guy to sign with them again after being there a few years?

If he is an All Star by that year it will be VERY difficult for the Clippers to keep him.

Who was the last guy they had come off of a rookie deal that was a max-deal caliber player? Just because they have drafted poorly isn't a reason to say that no one will re-sign with them.

It is always, always, always in the players best interests to re-sign early with the home team. You don't have to play with the pressure of a contract year and the home team can pay more than anyone else. If you hold out and take the qualifying offer then you risk an enormous amount of money due to injury, poor performance or strange circumstances. Even if it does pay off, it is a whole year that you are eligible to make high-end money that you are basically still working on the rookie scale. Veterans don't usually get that money back at the end of their career, so guys know they need to start earning soon.

That is why I laugh when people worry about the Thunder losing Durant, Green and/or Westbrook. The only time these guys even get to restricted free agency is when the home team doesn't know where they fit in their plans (Ben Gordon and Josh Smith), and they never, never wind up signing the qualifying offer unless the market is really weird (like Ben Gordon being the leading scorer for the Bulls every year he has been in the league, but being an undersized-score only shooting guard). A team like the Thunder knows what the plan is, and if they aren't going to re-sign those guys then they will be long gone ahead of the QO.

Its after the 7th year that things can get uncertain...
 
In 2003 Odom was a restricted free agent, and Miami offered him close to max money (in the 6-year, $80+ million range). The Clippers were going to match until Odom begged them not to do so because he wanted to play in Miami, so they just let him go.
 
I think Wade and LeBron's extension lengths were unique in that they wanted to make sure they could opt-out in 2010 and get new deals before the new Collective Bargaining Agreement. I'm pretty sure Melo signed a longer extension than the other 2003 draft class members.

I think that's right, but I remember at the time that the buzz was that Melo wished he had waited and seen what LBJ and Wade did. They kind of set the bar with that deal, Bosh saw it and followed suit, then Deron Williams and Chris Paul followed.

A non-max guy like say, Andrew Bogut, signed for 5 years, all guaranteed, no options either way. BTW...I wonder if Granger is wishing he had held off on signing his deal? He has become a max-type player and Indiana is getting him for a bargain for 5 years, no options. That has to be one of the better contracts floating around out there...
 
In 2003 Odom was a restricted free agent, and Miami offered him close to max money (in the 6-year, $80+ million range). The Clippers were going to match until Odom begged them not to do so because he wanted to play in Miami, so they just let him go.

That's a great point...the Clippers agreed to let him go. If they wanted him, they could have matched. Like I said, the home team only loses guys off of their rookie deal if they want to (or are unsure how bad they want them).
 
I think that's right, but I remember at the time that the buzz was that Melo wished he had waited and seen what LBJ and Wade did. They kind of set the bar with that deal, Bosh saw it and followed suit, then Deron Williams and Chris Paul followed.

A non-max guy like say, Andrew Bogut, signed for 5 years, all guaranteed, no options either way. BTW...I wonder if Granger is wishing he had held off on signing his deal? He has become a max-type player and Indiana is getting him for a bargain for 5 years, no options. That has to be one of the better contracts floating around out there...
In hindsight, Granger probably thinks about it, but it was a very smart decision at the time. Back when Deng and Gordon were in negotiations for extensions, Arenas criticized them in his blog. He basically said that teams aren't just handing out max-type deals anymore, so you don't just turn down $50-60 mil when you don't have the financial security from already having signed that big of a deal before.
 
In hindsight, Granger probably thinks about it, but it was a very smart decision at the time. Back when Deng and Gordon were in negotiations for extensions, Arenas criticized them in his blog. He basically said that teams aren't just handing out max-type deals anymore, so you don't just turn down $50-60 mil when you don't have the financial security from already having signed that big of a deal before.

You know, for all the ways Paxson has come close to absolutely wrecking all the good draft decisions he's made, it looks like the Bulls might pull through. They just named Gar Forman General Manager and it sounds like they are shopping Tyrus Thomas (his value couldn't be any higher than it is right now). There has been an awful lot of talk about them winding up with Bosh. A starting group of Noah, Bosh, Deng, Salmons and Rose could line up nicely, though they are gonna miss Ben Gordon's mental toughness. I'm not sure Rose is or isn't going to be that type of guy yet...
 
You know, for all the ways Paxson has come close to absolutely wrecking all the good draft decisions he's made, it looks like the Bulls might pull through. They just named Gar Forman General Manager and it sounds like they are shopping Tyrus Thomas (his value couldn't be any higher than it is right now). There has been an awful lot of talk about them winding up with Bosh. A starting group of Noah, Bosh, Deng, Salmons and Rose could line up nicely, though they are gonna miss Ben Gordon's mental toughness. I'm not sure Rose is or isn't going to be that type of guy yet...
That would be a really nice starting 5: long, athletic, with multiple scorers and a PG who can set the table. They would definitely win a ton of games. I just don't know who the go-to guy is in the clutch. Though I think Paxson made the right decision in not caving to Gordon's demands, they really are going to miss what he gives them in the fourth quarter. Really talented ensemble casts can win championships, but you have to have someone who is willing to take over late in the game (i.e. Detroit and Billups). It probably does come down to Rose, because I can't see any other guy in the lineup taking that role.
 
That would also be a great fit for Bosh. He could do his thing without ever having to be the man. Even though its pie-in-the-sky, I have though a lot about these fan dream scenarios in which the Thunder wind up with Bosh. If he ever winds up with an Alpha Dog he is about a perfect second fiddle. My big thing I wonder about him is if he is too much like Pao Gasol...skilled but soft...
 
To say it's "always" in the best interest to sign early with the current team is a major overstatement. Often it happens because of the situation that the current team can offer more money (I think) and the fact that there just aren't that many teams who can offer those contracts.

You also forgot about Elton Brand. He took the contract in Philly. There are plenty of guys who decided to take the money elswhere but like you said it isn't the most common thing. I just think the Clippers don't have any history of keeping good players. They lost Miles, Odom, and Richardson off the team that made it to the playoffs. Then they lose Brand. They kept Kaman but overpaid for him big time.

I think in 09-10 you could see quite a bit of movement.
 
To say it's "always" in the best interest to sign early with the current team is a major overstatement. Often it happens because of the situation that the current team can offer more money (I think) and the fact that there just aren't that many teams who can offer those contracts.

You also forgot about Elton Brand. He took the contract in Philly. There are plenty of guys who decided to take the money elswhere but like you said it isn't the most common thing. I just think the Clippers don't have any history of keeping good players. They lost Miles, Odom, and Richardson off the team that made it to the playoffs. Then they lose Brand. They kept Kaman but overpaid for him big time.

I think in 09-10 you could see quite a bit of movement.

You guys aren't paying attention...I am talking about going from your rookie deal to the second contract. Brand re-signed off of his rookie deal with the Clippers after the Bulls traded him there. It was when that deal expired that he wound up with Philly. The way the CBA is set up with the rookie scale it is a very rare situation if a team wants to re-sign a player and they are unable to. Help me out...name a guy who a team was unable to sign off of his rookie deal. Smash had the best example with Odom, but even that scenario kind of proves it out because the only reason he got to Miami is because the Clips let it happen.

Bottom line is the reason we are having this convo is because the question was about when Blake would come up for free agency. If BG fans are hoping that Blake goes on the open market in 5 years I think it is about like happening Blake drops to the third pick in the draft. Sure it could happen, but...
 
You guys aren't paying attention...I am talking about going from your rookie deal to the second contract. Brand re-signed off of his rookie deal with the Clippers after the Bulls traded him there.

brand didn't re-sign. his offer from miami was matched bringing him back to the clippers. he tried though, but it rarely happens.
 
brand didn't re-sign. his offer from miami was matched bringing him back to the clippers. he tried though, but it rarely happens.
Even though Brand didn't want to stay, he took his chances as a restricted free agent because no one expected the Clippers to match the type of offers he would get on the open market. Now that pretty much every team, even the Clippers, is willing to spend that type of money, it would be near impossible for a player like Blake Griffin (if he is as good as expected) to get away as a restricted free agent. If Blake wants to ensure that he gets out of LAC ASAP, the best way to do that would be to take the fifth year qualifying offer, then become an unrestricted free agent. However, max-type players pretty much never do that, which is elmo's point.
 
As usual, I think I have managed to come off like a dick or something...

My main point was just to say that it isn't in player's interests to avoid re-signing after their rookie deal. True free agency in the NBA doesn't start until the end of contract #2 (at least for first round picks). The thing to watch is the management of the team, not whether or not we imagine a player would like to live in a certain city. The single most important part of having a legitimate NBA team is its management (and obviously, ownership). I don't think you can overestimate how important that is to the equation.

When I was looking at what it might take to re-sign Jeff Green down the road, I looked at three guys that had similar attributes to Green in terms of value. I wound up looking at Josh Howard, David West and Josh Smith. Little did I realize what a good example it would be in the difference between organizations.

First Howard...When his rookie deal ended, Dallas signed him for 5 more years at roughly $9-$10 million per. The interesting part is that the terms of the contract back load the money, starting the salary lower and escalating the deal every year. Then, the final and richest year of the deal is a team option year. This is a great deal for the Mavs in that they are in full control to negotiate his next deal. They can see how they like his development and if they decide to continue with him as a foundation player, then they've got all the leverage during what could be up to two years of negotiations. If they decide to part ways, they can dump him prior to the priciest year of the deal. Great deal and an example of why Dallas has become such a stable franchise...

Then look at West...He also signed a 5-year extension worth around $9 million per year. The big difference here is that his was built the opposite way. New Orleans front loaded the money, paying the most in the first year and dropping every year after that. Then the fifth and poorest year of the deal is a player option year. So this deal is designed to help the team manage salary down the road, but maybe isn't the best way to keep a player long term. West is now going to have major leverage with New Orleans when it comes time for a new deal. Its a great example of a mediocre management team doing things in the short term and obsessing over year by year costs. The deal not only undermines their ability to keep him down the road, but also makes it likely that as the end of the deal nears the team may have to trade him to recoup some value.

Finally, there is Smith. This is a great example of why you just absolutely don't ever want to let your guy get to restricted free agency. I would say most people would agree that Smith is clearly the least accomplished of the three guys we're talking about, but he just signed for 5 years at around $11 million per, with no option years or qualifying offer. Atlanta was basically a mess and didn't know what Smith's value was or where he fit in their plans. Then he gets to RFA and gets the offer sheet and after all the bad publicity and with the threat of losing a valuable asset for nothing they were compelled to match the offer. So now they have a talented, but overpaid and likely unmotivated player locked in for five years, a guy who, by the way, was getting booed by Hawks fans in the playoffs this year (year one of the deal). So its pretty easy to see where Smith will be a Hawk for a couple more years, then when he gets toward the end of the deal other teams might be willing to take him on and he winds up getting dealt to a contender so the Hawks can cut payroll. A great example of why the Hawks are so, so terrible...

I hope this novel was worth it or interesting, but the thing it really should tell us is that for all the people that complained about wishing we could have kept Chris Paul and the Hornets, we should be thanking our lucky stars that we've got Sam Presti running the show. Once this team gets on its feet, it is gonna be a quality, stable franchise because Sambo does it the right way.

Sterling and Dunleavy however...
 
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