32-31 (guess what that is)

[skyvue]

It's worth noting that Coach Moser, in his efforts to bring in talent via the portal, is recruiting to a conference that has been the best in the country for several years--and one of the top two or three for a decade. We constantly hear about how being in the SEC is going to be a big boost for OU's football recruiting (and, one assumes, portal success) because the best players want to compete in the best conference. Why shouldn't the same have been true of being in the Big 12 for hoops?

 

[hoopsaustin]

It's worth noting that Coach Moser, in his efforts to bring in talent via the portal, is recruiting to a conference that has been the best in the country for several years--and one of the top two or three for a decade. We constantly hear about how being in the SEC is going to be a big boost for OU's football recruiting (and, one assumes, portal success) because the best players want to compete in the best conference. Why shouldn't the same have been true of being in the Big 12 for hoops?

I suspect bc basketball doesnt generate money like football does.. and the big 12 doesnt get stroked like espn does for the sec either so the fact that the big 12 is like on another galaxy is lost on the majority instead of universally accepted as fact like the SEC football BS

 

[Eielson]

It's worth noting that Coach Moser, in his efforts to bring in talent via the portal, is recruiting to a conference that has been the best in the country for several years--and one of the top two or three for a decade. We constantly hear about how being in the SEC is going to be a big boost for OU's football recruiting (and, one assumes, portal success) because the best players want to compete in the best conference. Why shouldn't the same have been true of being in the Big 12 for hoops?

The Big 12 doesn't have a stranglehold on the NBA draft the way that the SEC does with the NFL. And being in the SEC is a bigger boost to competitive teams than it is for a bottom-dweller like Vanderbilt.

 

[Soonerguy06]

Every time we hire somebody new, we all agree that the first year or two are essentially meaningless, but when rubber actually meets the road, everybody panics.

I'm not saying he'll be amazing at OU. I'm simply saying that while there are quick-fix coaches, Moser was never going to be one of them. It takes time to get his guys and develop them for his system. His portal recruiting has been limited, as it likely would be for just about any coach here unless we step up our NIL, but his HS recruiting has been a major strength thus far. If he continues to grab two guys of Uzan/Oweh and Cooper/Cole caliber from HS each year, I think there's certainly reason to expect this to project upward. From day one he has said he hopes to rely more on HS recruiting than the portal, and I don't think it's realistic to expect him to turn things around with two freshmen and two HS seniors.

If we're still floundering in years 3-4, that's obviously good reason for concern, but you don't fire somebody 1.5 years in unless they've committed a crime or major violation. What kinda coach would want to come here if they didn't feel they had the typical 3-5 years to get things rolling?

I just hope he can keep these young guys around long enough to see the pay off in a couple years down the road! Nobody wants to play on a team that's at the very bottom of the conference, it's embarassing, so I don't necessarily blame these young men for taking off, if they do. I expected at least the success of Kruger's recent teams (not the FF one of course) when PM took over, but I in no way expected us to be this horrible. A lot of these games were so winnable that the argument of this being the best conference in the country doesn't really hold water to me, we should have won at least 3 of the close games we've had that we've lost, yet we didnt. I put that on somewhere lacking in coaching. If we're giving him a few more years grace, what should we realistically expect from next season? If we are in last or second to last place yet again I'd say he's not working out, i'm sorry. I'm sure he'll get at least 4 years though, which could make for some very empty stands at LN

 

[TINY]

Name a program that Porter didn't leave better than he inherited it.

UALR (his closest thing to a quick fix)
- Inherited three straight losing seasons including 4-24 before he took over
- Had three straight winning seasons (overall and in conference), which continued the following two years after he left

Illinois State
- Inherited an 8-win program
- Struggled in his four years there and was fired, but Illinois State was projected to finish near the top of conference in year 5, which is exactly what they did. The team then gradually trended downward each year from 25-10 to 12-19 under Jankovich.

Loyola
- Inherited a team that hadn't been to the NCAA tourney since 1985 and only once since 1968
- Had the greatest 4-year stretch in program history including a Final 4 and Sweet 16 run. Handed over a top 25 team to Valentine that once again went to the NCAA tourney.



What about April 2021? He had a pathetic roster, and blaming Porter for "losing" guys like Alondes that Lon misutilized or Reaves that went pro is silly.

Great post, Eielson. Moser definitely is a builder rather than a quick fix guy. Quick fix guy will keep you in tournament most years but less of a threat to win a championship of any kind. Hopefully Moser can build our program to a level of consistent tournament team with potential to win a championship of some sort every 3-4 years.

 

[stormspencer]

You absolutely can turn around a program quickly in this era! Porter just ain't that dude, and we all knew that when we hired him.

I would buy into your argument, however this team/program has regressed under him. Outside of Hill, you would have a hard time convincing me that any other player on the roster has even remotely improved (maybe Cortes?). A few guys looked "better" in non-conference when we were punching down with an easier schedule, but conference play has exposed this roster and lack of player development.

Again, if this team was showing improvement, the performance/record would be easier to stomach. But we have seen time and time again over the course of this season that this team rarely executes enough in close games to win and their fundamental understanding of the game (court awareness, fundamentals) is totally lacking. That's on PM. And I haven't even touched upon his initial failure to construct a roster.

And if this program is viewed as a "long haul" fix, then PM has not adapted to the modern game by incorporating the portal to address immediate needs very well....to complement HS recruiting. If Moser is indeed "the guy", I believe we would've seen at least some indications (over almost two seasons) of this program moving in the right direction. He is going to get at least one more year, but as we stand (at least from what I've seen) I think he is a dead man walking.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I just hope he can keep these young guys around long enough to see the pay off in a couple years down the road! Nobody wants to play on a team that's at the very bottom of the conference, it's embarassing, so I don't necessarily blame these young men for taking off, if they do. I expected at least the success of Kruger's recent teams (not the FF one of course) when PM took over, but I in no way expected us to be this horrible. A lot of these games were so winnable that the argument of this being the best conference in the country doesn't really hold water to me, we should have won at least 3 of the close games we've had that we've lost, yet we didnt. I put that on somewhere lacking in coaching. If we're giving him a few more years grace, what should we realistically expect from next season? If we are in last or second to last place yet again I'd say he's not working out, i'm sorry. I'm sure he'll get at least 4 years though, which could make for some very empty stands at LN

This brings to mind a question for those who think the guy can coach. Let's say he is still our coach next season. What has he done thus far to inspire confidence that the first (or 10th) time we are in a tight ball game with a few minutes left, he will be able to help us win? I would imagine the vast majority of OU fans feel like we have about a 20 percent chance of winning if the game is close down the stretch.

I've said it a lot, but watch other teams and you will see examples of coaches getting easy baskets on BLOBs or out of timeouts. We can barely get the ball in, whether it is in our backcourt or under the other team's basket. How often have we seen our defense get scorched in the last few minutes? How often do we allow killer offensive boards? How often do we see bizarre substitution patterns? We have mastered the art of applying meaningless ball pressure in the last minute of blowouts, at least.

 

[Eielson]

I would buy into your argument, however this team/program has regressed under him. Outside of Hill, you would have a hard time convincing me that any other player on the roster has even remotely improved (maybe Cortes?). A few guys looked "better" in non-conference when we were punching down with an easier schedule, but conference play has exposed this roster and lack of player development.

Again, if this team was showing improvement, the performance/record would be easier to stomach. But we have seen time and time again over the course of this season that this team rarely executes enough in close games to win and their fundamental understanding of the game (court awareness, fundamentals) is totally lacking. That's on PM. And I haven't even touched upon his initial failure to construct a roster.

And if this program is viewed as a "long haul" fix, then PM has not adapted to the modern game by incorporating the portal to address immediate needs very well....to complement HS recruiting. If Moser is indeed "the guy", I believe we would've seen at least some indications (over almost two seasons) of this program moving in the right direction. He is going to get at least one more year, but as we stand (at least from what I've seen) I think he is a dead man walking.

I just don't think you have enough sample size to really say at this point. I mean, how much improvement could you realistically expect from a guy like Tanner Groves? I think seeing the way guys like Uzan and Oweh progress over the next 1-2 years will be more meaningful.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Great post, Eielson. Moser definitely is a builder rather than a quick fix guy. Quick fix guy will keep you in tournament most years but less of a threat to win a championship of any kind. Hopefully Moser can build our program to a level of consistent tournament team with potential to win a championship of some sort every 3-4 years.

It took till year 14 for him to finish better than fifth place in crappy leagues. And his success came after Creighton and WSU left the Valley. And he followed up the FF run by missing the tourney the next year, and they were no sure bet to make it in 2020.

 

[Eielson]

This brings to mind a question for those who think the guy can coach. Let's say he is still our coach next season. What has he done thus far to inspire confidence that the first (or 10th) time we are in a tight ball game with a few minutes left, he will be able to help us win? I would imagine the vast majority of OU fans feel like we have about a 20 percent chance of winning if the game is close down the stretch.

I've said it a lot, but watch other teams and you will see examples of coaches getting easy baskets on BLOBs or out of timeouts. We can barely get the ball in, whether it is in our backcourt or under the other team's basket. How often have we seen our defense get scorched in the last few minutes? How often do we allow killer offensive boards? How often do we see bizarre substitution patterns? We have mastered the art of applying meaningless ball pressure in the last minute of blowouts, at least.

What was Lon's OT record vs Capel's?

 

[stormspencer]

I just don't think you have enough sample size to really say at this point. I mean, how much improvement could you realistically expect from a guy like Tanner Groves? I think seeing the way guys like Uzan and Oweh progress over the next 1-2 years will be more meaningful.

That's fair, but thus far I haven't really seen anything to inspire confidence or assurance that this thing is going to get turned around under him. The team makes many of the same mistakes that they were making early in the season. We are limited by our roster (that is another discussion altogether), so I would have liked to have seen at least marginal improvement in fundamentals and decision-making....I can't say that I have.

 

[hoopsaustin]

It took till year 14 for him to finish better than fifth place in crappy leagues. And his success came after Creighton and WSU left the Valley. And he followed up the FF run by missing the tourney the next year, and they were no sure bet to make it in 2020.

Oof. Wichita stop killing my slight remaining hope im trying to talk myself into after eilsen's posts

 

[WichitaSooner]

:ez-laugh:

Oof. Wichita stop killing my slight remaining hope im trying to talk myself into after eilsen's posts

 

[TINY]

It took till year 14 for him to finish better than fifth place in crappy leagues. And his success came after Creighton and WSU left the Valley. And he followed up the FF run by missing the tourney the next year, and they were no sure bet to make it in 2020.

It is absurd to discount anything from his time at Loyola. He took them to the final 4 and sweet 16 in non-consecutive years. This is loyola we are talking about. His coaching job at Loyola was beyond elite.

Eielson added context to his career record. It shows he has started from scratch at every stop, which skews his overall record a bit considering he only stayed 4-5 years at each place. As Eielson said, he left every program better than when he found it. Time will tell if his time at ou is more like his Illinois state tenure or his loyola tenure.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Oof. Wichita stop killing my slight remaining hope im trying to talk myself into after eilsen's posts

I’ll work on my optimism in the offseason. Maybe there is a way to blame Lon for Moser’s lack of success at Illinois State and in his early years at Loyola.

 

[WichitaSooner]

It is absurd to discount anything from his time at Loyola. He took them to the final 4 and sweet 16 in non-consecutive years. This is loyola we are talking about. His coaching job at Loyola was beyond elite.

Eielson added context to his career record. It shows he has started from scratch at every stop, which skews his overall record a bit considering he only stayed 4-5 years at each place. As Eielson said, he left every program better than when he found it. Time will tell if his time at ou is more like his Illinois state tenure or his loyola tenure.

Loyola was 16-15 the year before he was hired. He didn’t finish at or above .500 till his fourth season. But I’m sure it wasn’t his fault. Undoubtedly the previous coach “left the cupboard bare.”

 

[Soonerb98]

I'm growing less confident in PM with each game. I just don't see progress happening, but I've not seen every game to be fair.

I don't understand the "he's not a quick turnaround guy " rationale. I'd rather improve immediately if given the choice. That's a knock on PM any way you slice it for me. And, slow turnaround guys should show some growth in 2 years, right? For example, OU FB was clearly improved in 99, but didn't have the horses yet so the record was only so so, but clearly were better coached than Blake's teams. I don't see those "almost there" signs with basketball. I just see repeated mistakes and bad outcomes.

I do think PM has shown to be a good scouting report defense coach. I can't name a single other aspect of our team, this year or last, that I would rate as average or above in the big 12.

I hope he figures it out, but I can see the dead man walking scenario being accurate. But small sample size, so maybe...?

 

[TINY]

Loyola was 16-15 the year before he was hired. He didn’t finish at or above .500 till his fourth season. But I’m sure it wasn’t his fault. Undoubtedly the previous coach “left the cupboard bare.”

I’m sure the previous coach was well on his way to the final 4 at powerhouse loyola. When you discredit his time at Loyola, it hurts the rest of your argument tremendously. Makes it seem like it is personal for you.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I’m sure the previous coach was well on his way to the final 4 at powerhouse loyola. When you discredit his time at Loyola, it hurts the rest of your argument tremendously. Makes it seem like it is personal for you.

I didn’t discredit his FF run. I did respond to the false assertion that he started from scratch at every stop. He didn’t hear, and he didn’t at Loyola. Both places, he made the program significantly worse in his first couple years. OU isn’t Loyola, and it would be crazy for us to accept several years of bad results with the hope that we MAY get good years down the road.

As for it being personal, it would be strange for me to have it in for a guy who was my first choice two years ago. Given the fact that I was fully onboard with the hire, I spent all of last season and the offseason looking for reasons to be optimistic. I fully expected him to have us comfortably in the tourney this year because of the experience of the returning players and the addition of Grant. Plus, I figured our late-game issues couldn’t possibly be as bad; I was wrong, as they are sadly even worse this year.

 

[opsooner]

I would buy into your argument, however this team/program has regressed under him. Outside of Hill, you would have a hard time convincing me that any other player on the roster has even remotely improved (maybe Cortes?). A few guys looked "better" in non-conference when we were punching down with an easier schedule, but conference play has exposed this roster and lack of player development.

Again, if this team was showing improvement, the performance/record would be easier to stomach. But we have seen time and time again over the course of this season that this team rarely executes enough in close games to win and their fundamental understanding of the game (court awareness, fundamentals) is totally lacking. That's on PM. And I haven't even touched upon his initial failure to construct a roster.

And if this program is viewed as a "long haul" fix, then PM has not adapted to the modern game by incorporating the portal to address immediate needs very well....to complement HS recruiting. If Moser is indeed "the guy", I believe we would've seen at least some indications (over almost two seasons) of this program moving in the right direction. He is going to get at least one more year, but as we stand (at least from what I've seen) I think he is a dead man walking.

The regression is my issue. I liked what he was trying to do but last years’s team, despite pulling one upset in the postseason tournament, didn’t really improve. This year’s team looked improved during pre-conference but was not ready for the conference season at all. By now, I would have expected an identity to emerge but it has not. I don’t see a team that has figured out each player’s role. We often get wholesale substitutes with no strategic rhyme/reason. The mere strategy seems to be each player is going to play x minutes unless they really start to kill the team in the process. The player development and team development have sucked.

I agree. If I saw improvement I would feel differently. I can’t just clap and say “wait a few years and it might get better”. Our school needs a basketball coach who can develop local talent and who can find a few diamonds in the rough. We aren’t going to recruit well until we win and we aren’t goin to win unless we have a coach who can position a team to develop and use the skills we have in the way they can be successful.

This argument that we are in a tough conference doesn’t hold much water. It is apparently so tough that teams can toy with us in the first half where we have led, been tied, or been in contention in many games but have won only 3. The other teams just decide to use their superior talent in the second half where it becomes our lack of talent and nothing to do with coaching.


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