32-31 (guess what that is)

[mict085]

All available evidence points to Moser being the worst coach in the Big12. It’s not even debatable.

 

[WTSooner]

It is absurd to discount anything from his time at Loyola. He took them to the final 4 and sweet 16 in non-consecutive years. This is loyola we are talking about. His coaching job at Loyola was beyond elite.

Eielson added context to his career record. It shows he has started from scratch at every stop, which skews his overall record a bit considering he only stayed 4-5 years at each place. As Eielson said, he left every program better than when he found it. Time will tell if his time at ou is more like his Illinois state tenure or his loyola tenure.

This is a bunch of made up garbage.

Take away the Final Four run and PM's resume is disgusting. Absolute garbage.

The fact that some of you still don't want to admit that, I just can't. But the day is coming. When next year is bad as well, you all will come around and you'll have a bunch of excuses for why you didn't see it earlier. Happened with Capel. Happened with Lon (a little different) at the end of his tenure. And now it's happening with PM.

 

[hoopsaustin]

This is a bunch of made up garbage.

Take away the Final Four run and PM's resume is disgusting. Absolute garbage.

The fact that some of you still don't want to admit that, I just can't. But the day is coming. When next year is bad as well, you all will come around and you'll have a bunch of excuses for why you didn't see it earlier. Happened with Capel. Happened with Lon (a little different) at the end of his tenure. And now it's happening with PM.

Hey man we need a little bit of positivity from the sunshine pumpers. I commend them bc this year has been brutal. But try to meet in the middle somewhere

 

[WTSooner]

Hey man we need a little bit of positivity from the sunshine pumpers. I commend them bc this year has been brutal. But try to meet in the middle somewhere

There is no middle. PM is going to get another year. My worst fear is that he does just well enough to buy himself even more time.

He isn't the answer long-term. I said that before he was hired. I'm saying it louder now.

 

[hoopsaustin]

There is no middle. PM is going to get another year. My worst fear is that he does just well enough to buy himself even more time.

He isn't the answer long-term. I said that before he was hired. I'm saying it louder now.

Thats fine. I'm pretty much with you. But you can convey that a little less negatively imo. We need the board to not die and just have everyone going after throats 24/7

 

[Stikboy]

Thats fine. I'm pretty much with you. But you can convey that a little less negatively imo. We need the board to not die and just have everyone going after throats 24/7

LOL man I admire your efforts for peace. This just goes to show people are passionate about OU basketball! I love it.

I hope and wish Moser can get it turned around, but I have my doubts, too. If he's not the long term answer I say cut bait, sooner the better.. Who wants to wait another year? Not saying a new guy could set the world on fire next year. But bring in a dynamic young guy with an up tempo offense, good defense, and can recruit. And for crying out loud get better from Nov-March. Is that too much to axe?

 

[TINY]

This is a bunch of made up garbage.

Take away the Final Four run and PM's resume is disgusting. Absolute garbage.
.

Lmao that’s not how this works at all. No one gets to arbitrarily take out facts because they don’t support your embarrassing narrative. Even if we did remove the final 4 run, 3 years later he took another rag tag Loyola bunch to the sweet 16 (including a thumping over the #1 seed Illinois).

 

[skyvue]

including a thumping over the #1 seed Illinois).

We thumped a couple of highly ranked teams this season, too. Didn't amount to much. Those who defend Moser give him great credit--I would argue too much credit--for his top accomplishments, given they are extreme outliers. His other seasons are mediocre at best, and our results this season, aside those two upset thumpings, are awful.

I've mentioned it before: Krutwig seems to have been the key to Moser's success. Capel also looked good when he had the right big man. Anyone ready to come to his defense, too?

 

[Eielson]

Loyola was 16-15 the year before he was hired. He didn’t finish at or above .500 till his fourth season. But I’m sure it wasn’t his fault. Undoubtedly the previous coach “left the cupboard bare.”

Wow! 16-15!! They were knocking in the door of the Final Four. I see your point now.

 

[Eielson]

I've mentioned it before: Krutwig seems to have been the key to Moser's success. Capel also looked good when he had the right big man. Anyone ready to come to his defense, too?

You compared Krutwig to Blake Griffin? Do you want to compare him to Wayman Tisdale and Shaquille O'Neal while you're at it?

This has to he a troll post, right?

 

[WichitaSooner]

Wow! 16-15!! They were knocking in the door of the Final Four. I see your point now.

Don’t hurt yourself moving those goalposts

 

[Eielson]

Don’t hurt yourself moving those goalposts

Feel free to let me know what goalposts I moved regarding the Loyola job, Mr Strawman.

Loyola
- Inherited a team that hadn't been to the NCAA tourney since 1985 and only once since 1968
- Had the greatest 4-year stretch in program history including a Final 4 and Sweet 16 run. Handed over a top 25 team to Valentine that once again went to the NCAA tourney.

 

[skyvue]

You compared Krutwig to Blake Griffin? Do you want to compare him to Wayman Tisdale and Shaquille O'Neal while you're at it?

This has to he a troll post, right?

I did nothing of the kind, but it's typical for you to misrepresent my posts. What I compared was Krutwig's importance to Moser's only seasons of high-level success and BG's similar importance to Capel.

No direct comparison between the two players was stated or implied. Hope that clarifies it for you.

 

[hoopsaustin]

I did nothing of the kind, but it's typical for you to misrepresent my posts. What I compared was Krutwig's importance to Moser's only seasons of high-level success and BG's similar importance to Capel.

No direct comparison between the two players was stated or implied. Hope that clarifies it for you.

Also BG's freshman year stats do compare very similarly to krutwigs career stats. BG went off in year two tho!!

 

[WTSooner]

There is a LONG of list of coaches that lucked their way into an Elite 8 or Final 4 and didn't do jack the rest of their career. PM didn't all of the sudden learn to coach at Loyola in those last couple of years. They had a magical year or two, and I've seen NOTHING to suggest it was anything but that.

Those claiming we have a talent issue, let's not forget we started off the season losing to Sam Houston and playing a couple of very close games against some pretty crappy teams in Arkansas PB (10-18), South Alabama (15-14), and Ole Miss (10-17).

Anybody going to argue those teams have more pure talent than OU?

 

[WaymanFan]

There is a LONG of list of coaches that lucked their way into an Elite 8 or Final 4 and didn't do jack the rest of their career.

Really? I can't come up with one name much less a long list. I look forward to seeing your long list of head coaches who took a mid-major to both the Final Four one year, a Sweet 16 another year, and yet basically sucked as head coaches. Good luck with that.

I'm as disappointed as anyone that OU has not been better since Coach Moser arrived, and he deserves to be on the hot seat next season - but I'm not going to make up a bunch of B.S. nonsense to illustrate that point.

 

[WTSooner]

Really? I can't come up with one name much less a long list. I look forward to seeing your long list of head coaches who took a mid-major to both the Final Four one year, a Sweet 16 another year, and yet basically sucked as head coaches. Good luck with that.

I'm as disappointed as anyone that OU has not been better since Coach Moser arrived, and he deserves to be on the hot seat next season - but I'm not going to make up a bunch of B.S. nonsense to illustrate that point.

“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”

So that you don't get away with moving the goal posts, let's be VERY clear about what I said. Here is what I said:

There is a LONG of list of coaches that lucked their way into an Elite 8 or Final 4 and didn't do jack the rest of their career.

Not:

I look forward to seeing your long list of head coaches who took a mid-major to both the Final Four one year, a Sweet 16 another year, and yet basically sucked as head coaches.

If you can't tell the difference, you don't belong in this conversation.

That said, here is a quickly put together list. Keep in mind, PM's career winning percentage is .546 (it's actually a little lower, but Wiki is behind on updating our season).

Mike Davis - One FF at IU in his second season, getting there by beating a banged up OU team they had no business beating. Career all downhill from there. Career winning percentage of .557.

Paul Hewitt - One FF at GT. Four of his next 7 seasons were below .500. Fired. Went to George Mason. Went from 24-9, to 22-16, to 11-20, to 9-22. Career winning percentage of .557.

Frank Martin - Not an exact fit. Did well at KSU. Went to South Carolina and was brutal over 10 seasons except for making the one Final Four. That was the only NCAA Tourney he made there in 10 seasons, and his winning percentage in those 10 seasons was .538.

John Brady - One Final Four at LSU. Fired two seasons later. Career winning percentage of .539.

Richard Williams - Was pretty terrible at Mississippi State for 8 seasons, then had a Sweet 16 and Final Four run, before two more horrible seasons that resulted in him quitting. Career winning percentage of .540.

Tom Crean - Was good at Marquette where he went to a Final Four. Eventually left there for Indiana where he was for 9 seasons and had a .551 winning percentage. Then went to Georgia for 4 seasons and was awful.

That's a QUICK list looking just at coaches that made a Final Four. I didn't even look at ones that just made an Elite 8. Bunch of those, moreso even than the Final Fours obviously. PM's career path is unique. In looking up a few of these, I didn't see anybody that was as bad as PM was the first 20 years of his career, only to have some success, then to follow that up with the garbage we've seen the last two years at OU.

You may not like the words I chose to describe him, and maybe there was some slight exaggeration for effect, but I'm not off by much. Dude has been God-awful outside of what amounts to about 20-25% of his coaching career. Time will tell who is more right here, but I certainly like the side of the argument that I am on.

 

[BCSooners]

He needs another year. But there’s got to be some player improvement, play the younger guys if you’re a “high school developer”, see progression in your “system”, and find an identity. Last year OU could at least guard really well even with T. Groves in the middle, now they can’t keep anyone in front of them.

 

[TINY]

“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”

So that you don't get away with moving the goal posts, let's be VERY clear about what I said. Here is what I said:

There is a LONG of list of coaches that lucked their way into an Elite 8 or Final 4 and didn't do jack the rest of their career.

Not:

I look forward to seeing your long list of head coaches who took a mid-major to both the Final Four one year, a Sweet 16 another year, and yet basically sucked as head coaches.

If you can't tell the difference, you don't belong in this conversation.

That said, here is a quickly put together list. Keep in mind, PM's career winning percentage is .546 (it's actually a little lower, but Wiki is behind on updating our season).

Mike Davis - One FF at IU in his second season, getting there by beating a banged up OU team they had no business beating. Career all downhill from there. Career winning percentage of .557.

Paul Hewitt - One FF at GT. Four of his next 7 seasons were below .500. Fired. Went to George Mason. Went from 24-9, to 22-16, to 11-20, to 9-22. Career winning percentage of .557.

Frank Martin - Not an exact fit. Did well at KSU. Went to South Carolina and was brutal over 10 seasons except for making the one Final Four. That was the only NCAA Tourney he made there in 10 seasons, and his winning percentage in those 10 seasons was .538.

John Brady - One Final Four at LSU. Fired two seasons later. Career winning percentage of .539.

Richard Williams - Was pretty terrible at Mississippi State for 8 seasons, then had a Sweet 16 and Final Four run, before two more horrible seasons that resulted in him quitting. Career winning percentage of .540.

Tom Crean - Was good at Marquette where he went to a Final Four. Eventually left there for Indiana where he was for 9 seasons and had a .551 winning percentage. Then went to Georgia for 4 seasons and was awful.

That's a QUICK list looking just at coaches that made a Final Four. I didn't even look at ones that just made an Elite 8. Bunch of those, moreso even than the Final Fours obviously. PM's career path is unique. In looking up a few of these, I didn't see anybody that was as bad as PM was the first 20 years of his career, only to have some success, then to follow that up with the garbage we've seen the last two years at OU.

You may not like the words I chose to describe him, and maybe there was some slight exaggeration for effect, but I'm not off by much. Dude has been God-awful outside of what amounts to about 20-25% of his coaching career. Time will tell who is more right here, but I certainly like the side of the argument that I am on.

None of those are good examples/comparisons. All are from power 5 schools except maybe Marquette (Indiana is a freaking blue blood). P5 programs have access to elite talent which tremendously increases your chances of spiking a final 4 randomly amidst years of mediocrity.

A final 4 and sweet 16 at a tiny program like loyola (with no pros on the team) requires great coaching. I can’t think of any similar case studies. Maybe Shaka smart? Although his time at Marquette has been successful so far. Small program coaches who have made final 4s off the top of my head (Jim larranaga, Phil Martelli, Brad Stevens, calipari). All of which are good coaches.

 

[Eielson]

“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”

This must have sounded cooler in your head. WarmanFan is one of the best, most reasonable posters this board has left.