Big 12 Preview

[WTSooner]

We pokes are perimeter laden. Our backup guards Forte and Clark could start in the backcourt for a lot of teams. However we will only go as far as the front court will take us


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No. You'll go as far as your coaching takes you. And if I were a poke fan, that would scare me. With the guard talent you guys have, there really are no excuses this year.

 

[ByronHoustonsSweatyPalms]

No. You'll go as far as your coaching takes you. And if I were a poke fan, that would scare me. With the guard talent you guys have, there really are no excuses this year.

Can't play 4 at a time.


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[Max Power]

Can't play 4 at a time.


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4 out 1 in, teams do it all the time

 

[trueou]

"It's a long shot, but if Iowa State sucks, Baylor falls apart in the conference season, and Kansas State continues to lose to teams like Northern Colorado, there's a chance Kansas and Oklahoma State — two Final Four contenders — will get the only Big 12 bids."

It is hard for me to imagine the above scenario happening without OU and/or another team not having a good enough record to make the tournament. I guess if all of those teams sucked out of conference and did ok in conference pushing OU and that other team toward the bottom, it could happen.

 

[propoke]

"It's a long shot, but if Iowa State sucks, Baylor falls apart in the conference season, and Kansas State continues to lose to teams like Northern Colorado, there's a chance Kansas and Oklahoma State — two Final Four contenders — will get the only Big 12 bids."

It is hard for me to imagine the above scenario happening without OU and/or another team not having a good enough record to make the tournament. I guess if all of those teams sucked out of conference and did ok in conference pushing OU and that other team toward the bottom, it could happen.

You would also need OSU and Kansas go undefeated versus the other 8 schools. I don't think that happens either.

 

[DenverSooner]

Our backup guards Forte and Clark could start in the backcourt for a lot of teams.

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I agree but I also think the backups at most of the BCS schools would start at a lot of schools, especially the teams in the top half of those conferences. For example, I suspect the backups at the BCS schools would start at just about every America East, Atlantic Sun, Big Sky, Big South, Horizon, Ivy League, Metro Atlantic, Mid-Eastern, Northeast, Ohio Valley, Patriot, Southern, Southland, Southwestern Atlantic, Summit, and Sun Belt teams. I did not count but that is probably more than 150 teams. There are several other leagues where they would start for 50% or more of the teams. There are a whole lot of D-1 basketball teams.

 

[GIA Stout]

neither would start for OU

Lol. So Woodard is already proven to be better than Clark? Just because you HAVE to start him doesn't make him better. Clark was significantly more recruited and touted as a player for a reason. You wanted him badly...just like Burton, Grandstaff, Solomon, and whatever other 4 stars Ford beat Lon on that I'm forgetting.

 

[oSuJeff97]

No. You'll go as far as your coaching takes you. And if I were a poke fan, that would scare me.

I'm curious what specific games we've lost recently based on Ford's coaching.

I get that Ford isn't Eddie Sutton or Bill Self, but few are.

I think the "Ford can recruit but can't coach" meme is a lazy analysis* that isn't founded in reality so much as it's founded in "message board lore."

* Many, many OSU fans are guilty of this lazy analysis, BTW.

 

[garyeb2]

I'm curious what specific games we've lost recently based on Ford's coaching.

I get that Ford isn't Eddie Sutton or Bill Self, but few are.

I think the "Ford can recruit but can't coach" meme is a lazy analysis* that isn't founded in reality so much as it's founded in "message board lore."

* Many, many OSU fans are guilty of this lazy analysis, BTW.

Coaching is more than X's and O's. Getting these kids focused and keeping them focused is just as much about coaching as anything. That is the problem he had last year and the problem he will have again this year.

This final four pipe dream is just that. A pipe dream. Ford doesn't have it. He can not get the job done.

 

[TheGimper]

I think the "Ford can recruit but can't coach" meme is a lazy analysis* that isn't founded in reality so much as it's founded in "message board lore."

* Many, many OSU fans are guilty of this lazy analysis, BTW.

This thread opens with a national writer taking a shot at Travis Ford, so I would say it stretches beyond "message board lore."

 

[WTSooner]

I'm curious what specific games we've lost recently based on Ford's coaching.

I get that Ford isn't Eddie Sutton or Bill Self, but few are.

I think the "Ford can recruit but can't coach" meme is a lazy analysis* that isn't founded in reality so much as it's founded in "message board lore."

* Many, many OSU fans are guilty of this lazy analysis, BTW.

Gary's response is pretty close to what my response is.

As far as naming specific games, I cannot. But I've watched him coach games in his tenure at OSU, and I personally don't think he is a very good game day coach. Just my opinion of course. Reminds me a bit of the Jeff Capel OU teams. Sometimes it's difficult to tell what their identity is suppose to be. I don't think they defend hard. They coast at times. Undisciplined.

Those bad traits don't always show, or cost them games, but I believe it does enough to put some blame back on Ford. The dude is recruiting ridiculously well right now. I just think his "good coaching" ends there.

 

[ByronHoustonsSweatyPalms]

Kansas, OSU and Baylor are almost locks to make it. Hard to imagine the 4th and 5th place team not making it.


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[DenverSooner]

I'm curious what specific games we've lost recently based on Ford's coaching.

I get that Ford isn't Eddie Sutton or Bill Self, but few are.

I think the "Ford can recruit but can't coach" meme is a lazy analysis* that isn't founded in reality so much as it's founded in "message board lore."

* Many, many OSU fans are guilty of this lazy analysis, BTW.

Did OSU win or lose when he screaming at the free throw shooter? Did OSU win or lose in the games where he flailed around on the floor when he didn't like a call. The guy is immature in my opinion.

 

[fhosu]

Coaching is more than X's and O's. Getting these kids focused and keeping them focused is just as much about coaching as anything. That is the problem he had last year and the problem he will have again this year.

This final four pipe dream is just that. A pipe dream. Ford doesn't have it. He can not get the job done.

Didn't have his kids focused in finishing 17th in the AP poll and 1 game out of 1st in the Big 12 after not being ranked nationally preseason and picked to finish 3rd and 5th in the Big 12 by the coaches and media, respectively? Yep, lazy analysis.

Before you jump at saying it was all because of Marcus Smart, he was not on the same level coming out of high school as Wiggins, Parker, or Randle and was nowhere near a top 3 NBA pick out of high school. No chance he was coached up, is there?

 

[WTSooner]

He was certainly coached up.

On the act of flopping.

 

[garyeb2]

Didn't have his kids focused in finishing 17th in the AP poll and 1 game out of 1st in the Big 12 after not being ranked nationally preseason and picked to finish 3rd and 5th in the Big 12 by the coaches and media, respectively? Yep, lazy analysis.

Before you jump at saying it was all because of Marcus Smart, he was not on the same level coming out of high school as Wiggins, Parker, or Randle and was nowhere near a top 3 NBA pick out of high school. No chance he was coached up, is there?

I understand the aggies don't like it when people take shots at your coach. I'm happy to concede that. But, you are actually defending Ford. That could be a mistake don't you think.

 

[fhosu]

I understand the aggies don't like it when people take shots at your coach. I'm happy to concede that. But, you are actually defending Ford. That could be a mistake don't you think.

Not going to try to defend what you typed? That's cool.

I'm happy to concede that Travis Ford may not be a great coach, but every program at which he's been a coach to this point of his career has improved under his watch. To just say Ford is a bad coach because "he doesn't know his x's and o's and he doesn't keep his players focused" without specific examples or results has become groupthink, in my opinion.

 

[earlpearl]

For all Ford defenders, think about this. What would Eddie Sutton, Bill Self, or Kelvin Sampson for that matter do with this group of kids. It is a scary thought for the opposition.

 

[fhosu]

For all Ford defenders, think about this. What would Eddie Sutton, Bill Self, or Kelvin Sampson for that matter do with this group of kids. It is a scary thought for the opposition.

This is a fun argument, too. Ford has signed 2 top 30 national guys in his entire career. Two of the current starters were consensus 3 stars and the first two players off the bench were 3 stars. Not even close to Kansas/Duke type talent.

This should be a more scary thought for the opposition, imagine what Ford could do with 2014 top 10 big man Myles Turner and 2015 top 10 big man Elijah Thomas, both for which OSU leads, paired with an already top 15-20 2014 class and 2015 top 30 OSU commit, Austin Grandstaff.

 

[skyvue]

This should be a more scary thought for the opposition, imagine what Ford could do with 2014 top 10 big man Myles Turner and 2015 top 10 big man Elijah Thomas

Tell us again what Ford's done with the low-end talent you'd have us to believe he was working with that should make us fearful if he should manage to sign all the players you're convinced he's going to sign?

Improving on Sean Sutton's results is hardly a miracle.

oswho fans try to have it both ways: When it serves them, they rush to portray themselves as a scrappy little underdog of a program on the rise, but other times they try to pass off the idea that they're among the historical elites of college hoops.