Big money donors pushing the SEC hard to Boren

[skyvue]

Another thing I suspect about NYC that is a bit unusual (am I not sure I am correct) is that the largest schools in the State of New York may be quite a ways from NYC while many other states have reasonably well known schools that are closer. I would speculate that Uconn and Rutgers are two of the larger schools in close proximity to NYC that actually play D-1 sports.

Yeah, but only their alums get very excited about them in NYC. Syracuse too. I mean, they get more coverage than, say, OU or oswho do up here, but that's not saying much. So does Fordham.

St. John's garnered some attention back when Louie C. was head coach, and the Big East got generous coverage during its glory days.

Mostly, college sports are under the radar, certainly they are compared to pro sports.

 

[WaymanFan]

Another thing I suspect about NYC that is a bit unusual (am I not sure I am correct) is that the largest schools in the State of New York may be quite a ways from NYC while many other states have reasonably well known schools that are closer. I would speculate that Uconn and Rutgers are two of the larger schools in close proximity to NYC that actually play D-1 sports.

I'm from upstate NY, so I have a strong understanding of the demographics of college vs. pro sports fans. When it comes to college basketball, there are no shortage of fans all over the northeast. NYC only has two D-I schools in St. Johns and Manhattan, but there are many more a short distance away. Northeast sports fans love college basketball. Period.

As for college football fans, forget it...it's a joke. For every 100 football fans I met through the years, 99 preferred the NFL to college. Nearly all would give the same reason - no playoff in college. Of course, that has just changed. As a result, I'm now at least able to have a conversation with some fans about college football, but it will never overtake the NFL for fan support. To make matters worse, the closest "college football town" to NYC is Penn State - and that is quite a drive.

 

[skyvue]

Northeast sports fans love college basketball. Period.

I'll defer to your insights as far as attitudes outside NYC, which is the only place in the NE that I've lived, but while March Madness garners a good amount of interest here, most folks here pay little attention to the regular season. Alums from basketball powers gather at their chosen bars to watch, but local coverage of college hoops is limited and there's just not that much of a buzz about it until March.

When OU played in Brooklyn two seasons ago in a four-team tourney with Michigan State, Seton Hall, and ... I can't remember the other team, you could have stopped easily a thousand people on the street and not found one who knew that event was occurring. Of course, that's NYC -- there's so much going on here, it's all but impossible to keep up with all of it. Big events happen all the time here without most folks being aware of them.

But this is almost as much NBA town as it is an NFL one. The NBA is what fans are talking about during basketball season.

 

[sperry]

the acc makes the least money of the P5 .... they will continue to fall further and further behind the SEC and BIG ... and also behind the big 12 (pac12 matters less because of geography)

at some point UVA/VA tech .. UNC NC state Georgia tech .. will get tired of not making money ..

The ACC might currently make less money than the Big XII, but that's going to change. ESPN is about to launch the ACC network. The ACC has a foothold in New York, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, and Kentucky, as well as at least some piece of the national brand of Notre Dame. That's a whole lot of eye balls. Big XII has Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa and West Virginia.

 

[WaymanFan]

I'll defer to your insights as far as attitudes outside NYC, which is the only place in the NE that I've lived, but while March Madness garners a good amount of interest here, most folks here pay little attention to the regular season. Alums from basketball powers gather at their chosen bars to watch, but local coverage of college hoops is limited and there's just not that much of a buzz about it until March.

When OU played in Brooklyn two seasons ago in a four-team tourney with Michigan State, Seton Hall, and ... I can't remember the other team, you could have stopped easily a thousand people on the street and not found one who knew that event was occurring. Of course, that's NYC -- there's so much going on here, it's all but impossible to keep up with all of it. Big events happen all the time here without most folks being aware of them.

But this is almost as much NBA town as it is an NFL one. The NBA is what fans are talking about during basketball season.

And I'll defer to your knowledge of NYC. I grew up only two hours from Syracuse, but there were so many "Big East" fans in the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s all around where I lived. I simply lost count how my times people would tell me they prefer the NFL to college football, but prefer college basketball to the NBA. Now, has college hoops lost a little of it's popularity with all the great players only lasting 1 or 2 years? Well, obviously.

Back to NYC, I've been to two OU games at MSG, and both were a packed house...so I know there is at least some interest in college hoops. I was at the OU-Alabama game in November of '02 (Syracuse vs Memphis was the other game). I remember you telling me you were at the same OU-Duke game in December of '04, another packed house albeit mostly Duke fans.

 

[sheepdogs1]

In NYC there are rivalries within the city between the Giants and Jets, Yankees and Mets, Nicks and Nets and Ranger and Islanders. In NYC they have OU v OSU in local professional sports and OU v Texas with Boston, Philly and DC. They don't really need college sports for that type of interaction.

Plus NYC is a melting pot of people. I suspect you constantly meet people from all over the place, especially in the city itself. As a result there is probably less of a hometown favorite college because people were educated all over the place. Furthermore, people are probably more likely to be interested in different college conferences than they would in this region. Therefore, you probably don't get the bonding that we might get with our friends or colleagues through college sports.

It also doesn't help that there are no area teams which dominate college football, which helps to explain the popularity of Notre Dame in the area. Been a long time since Army and Yale garnered highly recruited athletes and found themselves atop of the polls..

 

[skyvue]

I remember you telling me you were at the same OU-Duke game in December of '04, another packed house albeit mostly Duke fans.

Yeah, Duke has a pretty big following here. Lots of alums live in the area, I'm guessing, and then you can add in their high national visibility and the fact that Coach K schedules a game in the NYC area virtually every season, a smart move in terms of marketing and recruiting.

 

[inoref]

If OU can't win the big 12, they sure ain't gonna win the sec. Its going to take a major house cleaning for OU to be a top 10 team again. (football) I think they could be in upper class in basketball.

 

[WaymanFan]

If OU can't win the big 12, they sure ain't gonna win the sec. Its going to take a major house cleaning for OU to be a top 10 team again. (football) I think they could be in upper class in basketball.

Yes, I wanted to vomit when hearing all the talk about the TCU-Baylor game as the marquee Big XII game this year. Someone asked which game would be #2, and OU-Texas was one of five options for that coveted #2 anticipated matchup of 2015. As for hoops, OU and Florida would be fighting for being the second best team in the SEC. I'm not even sure who the 4th best program would be...maybe Vanderbilt? Missouri?

 

[152219]

Talked to a fairly big donor who says the push is on for the SEC amongst some of the major donors. They want a more enticing home schedule if they are going to continue to pony up in the future.

"If we're going to lose four games a year, would rather it be to the LSUs, Tennessees, Alabama's, Auburns, South Carolina's" than the OSU/Baylor/TCU/KState types."

"The SEC and it's hype isn't going away with its new network and ESPN affiliation. It's all the rage amongst recruits and spreading fast in Texas. Might as well join it and reap its benefits, get more exciting home opponents, screw Texas (after they screwed the Pac 12 deal last time around) and it knocks Baylor/TCU back off their current pedestal in the pecking order of recruits in Texas."

Some more notes from conversation......

* The SEC offer is still on the table, but for OU only. They do not want OSU. He says the talk is that OU can definitely break away from OSU. OSU won't like it and throw a massive fit, but at the end of the day there's nothing that can be done about it by the legislature, despite what you hear.

* Boren had preferred Big 10 or Pac 12, but is coming around after the donor outcry. The Pac 12 won't take just OU and OSU, they have to come with Texas and one other (preferably Kansas). However, Texas' LHN network deal with ESPN is a huge stumbling block because the Pac 12 Network is with Fox, and ESPN does not want to lose Texas to Fox.

* If OU makes the move, don't worry about the "Granting of Rights". The Big 12 will crumble and it will be a moot point. Texas will not try to keep it together. They would look to ACC (because of relationship between ACC Network and LHN Network with ESPN) or Independent. West Virginia will go ACC (they tried to get WV a year after they joined the Big 12) and Kansas to the Big 10.

Anyone else heard about Boren getting SEC pressure from donors? Again, this guy isn't from the major donor circle, but from a guy who is high enough up the food chain to know what the major donors are thinking.

As always take it FWIW.

Boren knows he has to follow the big donor's wishes, because he doesn't like that the money train is drying up. In particular, Boren wants to put his final stamp on his legacy at OU and it doesn't have to do with athletics, but with the construction of numerous residential colleges (the ones based on those at Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, etc).

I've heard he would like to have around a dozen of these at $50/100 million each.

 

[campbest]

Just what academia needs, more overhead costs.

 

[Darwin]

The ACC has some nice things going for it and some crap. If you could cherry pick the best along with the best of the B12 there would be great potential in that 14 team conference. It would need ND buying in and ditching Wake, Maryland, Iowa St, a school in tx and others. Large geographic footprint for recruiting and tv eyes in the right time zones. Plus :fexas-logo: needs to give up their network.

 

[152219]

The ACC has some nice things going for it and some crap. If you could cherry pick the best along with the best of the B12 there would be great potential in that 14 team conference. It would need ND buying in and ditching Wake, Maryland, Iowa St, a school in tx and others. Large geographic footprint for recruiting and tv eyes in the right time zones. Plus :fexas-logo: needs to give up their network.

Maryland is in the Big 10.

 

[DenverSooner]

Big XII has Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa and West Virginia.

That is why it was so stupid to invite TCU. The Big XII had Texas with or without TCU. It would have been better to invite Colorado State, Louisville, Cinci or virtually any respectable school from another state. Louisville was probably the best choice. Really good basketball tradition and a much improved football program. I will never understand the decision to include TCU. It hurts OU, Texas, Baylor, OSU and Tech in recruiting Texas by making them a more equivalent program. It chops the pot one more time and it added nothing or very little for TV contracts. Some will claim it helps the DFW market but I call BS on that. DFW is full of OU, OSU, Baylor, Tech and Texas graduates. There was plenty of interest in that market without TCU. Of the 6 million people (or whatever it is) in DFW I bet 70% of the college football fans were fans of one of the existing schools and that A&M had more fans than TCU. TCU is small and doesn't have the alumni base of Texas, Texas A&M, OU, OSU or Tech. It is also doesn't remotely have the tradition of OU or Texas and I would argue has less tradition that OSU, Tech and A&M.

 

[DenverSooner]

Maryland is in the Big 10.

Good catch. I read that other persons comment and didn't even think about that. It is so complicated now. I wonder if people in other parts of the country still occasionally say Nebraska, Missouri, Colorado or A&M are in the Big XII. I bet they do, especially older people with Nebraska because they were virtually always in the Big XII or Big 8 (and its predecessors).

 

[152219]

That is why it was so stupid to invite TCU. The Big XII had Texas with or without TCU. It would have been better to invite Colorado State, Louisville, Cinci or virtually any respectable school from another state. Louisville was probably the best choice. Really good basketball tradition and a much improved football program. I will never understand the decision to include TCU. It hurts OU, Texas, Baylor, OSU and Tech in recruiting Texas by making them a more equivalent program. It chops the pot one more time and it added nothing or very little for TV contracts. Some will claim it helps the DFW market but I call BS on that. DFW is full of OU, OSU, Baylor, Tech and Texas graduates. There was plenty of interest in that market without TCU. Of the 6 million people (or whatever it is) in DFW I bet 70% of the college football fans were fans of one of the existing schools and that A&M had more fans than TCU. TCU is small and doesn't have the alumni base of Texas, Texas A&M, OU, OSU or Tech. It is also doesn't remotely have the tradition of OU or Texas and I would argue has less tradition that OSU, Tech and A&M.

You can blame Deloss Dodds for the TCU addition.

 

[sperry]

That is why it was so stupid to invite TCU. The Big XII had Texas with or without TCU. It would have been better to invite Colorado State, Louisville, Cinci or virtually any respectable school from another state. Louisville was probably the best choice. Really good basketball tradition and a much improved football program. I will never understand the decision to include TCU. It hurts OU, Texas, Baylor, OSU and Tech in recruiting Texas by making them a more equivalent program. It chops the pot one more time and it added nothing or very little for TV contracts. Some will claim it helps the DFW market but I call BS on that. DFW is full of OU, OSU, Baylor, Tech and Texas graduates. There was plenty of interest in that market without TCU. Of the 6 million people (or whatever it is) in DFW I bet 70% of the college football fans were fans of one of the existing schools and that A&M had more fans than TCU. TCU is small and doesn't have the alumni base of Texas, Texas A&M, OU, OSU or Tech. It is also doesn't remotely have the tradition of OU or Texas and I would argue has less tradition that OSU, Tech and A&M.

There are just way too many low impact programs in the conference in general. Baylor is pretty good at most sports, but they have a tiny alumni and fan base in a state we already have covered. We have a bunch of secondary or tertiary school from small states (K-State, Iowa State, Oklahoma State), and the flagship from one of the smallest and poorest in the nation, West Virginia. We have three flagships from relevant states, and Oklahoma and Kansas are on the smaller end of that spectrum.

The membership of this conference is just extremely unimpressive once you get past Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas.

 

[DenverSooner]

Losing Nebraska was a big deal. They had a huge national name in football. I think losing Missouri was the second biggest loss. They solidified the KC market with KU and brought the St. Louis market to the table. CU brought Denver and the Front range. A&M was somewhat irrelevant or less relevant of a loss because the conference keeps the Texas markets without them with Texas, Baylor, Tech, TCU, OU and OSU all having a fair amount of alumni in the Texas markets.

It was huge for the SEC to get A&M because it brings interest to the Texas markets. That deal really was a win/win for A&M and the SEC.

 

[bocabull]

TCU was added to the conference because they were a consistently strong program at the time. They have held up their end of the bargain finishing 3rd in all of college football last season and being ranked 2nd in the nation this season.

Competition is what makes a conference strong and brings in TV money. Adding Colorado State, Cincy or some other scrub program would have been a terrible idea. The strategy of the Big XII is to lock down Texas and the strategy is working better than expected.

The Big XII is printing money and getting more than enough exposure. The 10 team system is working fine. Ohio State passed TCU and Baylor last season for the playoff because they are Ohio State. Loaded with talent and proved they should have been by smashing Alabama and Oregon.

 

[DenverSooner]

TCU was either .500 or below .500 in conference play headed into last season. It is absurd to suggest TCU has somehow lifted the Big XII conference because they had a good season and high preseason ranking this year. Louisville had a very strong team two years ago. Louisville added television sets which TCU does not do. It also made for more and better opportunities to expand. Take Louisville, then maybe Cinci or a Mac School and next thing you know the conference is drawing fans from the heavily populated Big Ten region. Those schools would get better at football if they were in a better conference or at least might.

It is impossible to say what would have happened had the conference taken Louisville but it is extremely likely the conference would have gotten as good a TV deal if not better without TCU.