Calling OUr Pessimist, a Question of bgrch1350

[JBaker]

What if Buddy Hield got hurt next year? Because Willie Warren was hurt the following year.

And also...That same season...the season where UNC was coming off beating us in the Elite 8 and then winning the whole thing...they followed it up with 16 regular season wins and went 5-11 in conference. And they had John Henson, Ed Davis, Tyler Zeller, The Wear Twins, Deon Thompson...and many more.

Warren only missed 10 games.
Buddy Hield could play exactly 0 minutes next year, and I would still bet you $1,000 we win at least 14 games.

 

[garyeb2]

It was the signing of Griffin, Warren, and Pattillo that help take us to the Elite 8.

It was Romero Osby that took us the first round of the tournament last year which was still Capel's guy.

Selective memory. Try real hard now. Try to grasp this. It was the players that Capel recruited that got him fired. Yes, of course, he was a cheat and was way in over his head. But, ultimately, it was his recruits that got him. He brought in low character kids that he could not control and could not win with.

That is not good recruiting. That is bad recruiting.

 

[StatGeek]

Bgrch, the eternal clown. Your arguments are sooooo bad.

 

[StatGeek]

Selective memory. Try real hard now. Try to grasp this. It was the players that Capel recruited that got him fired. Yes, of course, he was a cheat and was way in over his head. But, ultimately, it was his recruits that got him. He brought in low character kids that he could not control and could not win with.

That is not good recruiting. That is bad recruiting.

But what about the stars? :facepalm

 

[bgrch1350]

Selective memory. Try real hard now. Try to grasp this. It was the players that Capel recruited that got him fired. Yes, of course, he was a cheat and was way in over his head. But, ultimately, it was his recruits that got him. He brought in low character kids that he could not control and could not win with.

That is not good recruiting. That is bad recruiting.

the fact is this, Kruger is here now and I support him. I think he is a much better coach than Capel. But he's also a better coach then Drew and Ford. But those 2 coaches have a top 10 team.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

bgrch1350 responded. Everyone here knows he is a Capel guy, and he hasn't been happy since Capel left. We are so far removed from Capel, I don't understand why he gets so much board time anymore. It's almost as bad as all of the os-who discussion that goes on here.

I'm nobody, but I'm just suggesting, PLEASE don't turn the board into a everyone against bgrch fight. We all know where he stands, and we all know why he stands there. Let's just continue to support LK & OUr guys, and enjoy the climb OUr program is making......

 

[StatGeek]

the fact is this, Kruger is here now and I support him. I think he is a much better coach than Capel. But he's also a better coach then Drew and Ford. But those 2 coaches have a top 10 team.

Yeah, Ford had been really killing it. 5-6 years @ OSU just as many losing seasons as tourney wins, without having to clean up Capel's mess. If this is going to be your new angle, I would just use Drew to support it.

 

[garyeb2]

the fact is this, Kruger is here now and I support him. I think he is a much better coach than Capel. But he's also a better coach then Drew and Ford. But those 2 coaches have a top 10 team.

Neither one of them have a top 10 team yet. There is a lot of season left. You are making the same mistake with Ford that you have made with Capel.

You can not judge a coach's results when he has a once in a generation type player like Blake. Kruger will probably never have a player like that and if anyone every hires Capel he won't ever have a player like that again. Ford will never have another player like Smart. Two years ago all the aggies were wanting to fire Ford. Two years from now, they probably will.

 

[bgrch1350]

Neither one of them have a top 10 team yet. There is a lot of season left. You are making the same mistake with Ford that you have made with Capel.

You can not judge a coach's results when he has a once in a generation type player like Blake. Kruger will probably never have a player like that and if anyone every hires Capel he won't ever have a player like that again. Ford will never have another player like Smart. Two years ago all the aggies were wanting to fire Ford. Two years from now, they probably will.

So I can praise Roy Williams, Calipari, Coach K, and so on for bringing in multiple Blakes and Smarts in every year but we can't give Ford and Capel credit for bringing in 1?

 

[bgrch1350]

Yeah, Ford had been really killing it. 5-6 years @ OSU just as many losing seasons as tourney wins, without having to clean up Capel's mess. If this is going to be your new angle, I would just use Drew to support it.

OSU is ranked 7th in the country...You better get off the past...his recruiting has made them a top 10 team (at the moment).

 

[MNsooner]

Can we stop pretending Capel was a good recruiter. Fact is, he was cheater. We know he paid at least one McD's AA. I'm willing to bet that wasn't an isolated incident. He got fired because we were losing AND he got in NCAA trouble.

 

[BigTime]

Can we stop pretending Capel was a good recruiter. Fact is, he was cheater. We know he paid at least one McD's AA. I'm willing to bet that wasn't an isolated incident. He got fired because we were losing AND he got in NCAA trouble.

I think his biggest deficiencies were not having a "plan B" and finding adequate role players. He always swung for the fences.

 

[garyeb2]

So I can praise Roy Williams, Calipari, Coach K, and so on for bringing in multiple Blakes and Smarts in every year but we can't give Ford and Capel credit for bringing in 1?

Are you impaired in some manner? Yes, you can give them whatever credit that they deserve. The amount of credit could be debated. But, you make your own judgment.

What I said was you can not evaluate their results when they have a once in a generation talent. You keep saying that Capel's claim to fame was getting to an elite 8. That is all well and good. But, it isn't good enough if it can only be done once a generation. It isn't worth the wait if the University and it's fans have to endure the mess left in Blake's wake.

You are vastly underestimating Blake. Randle may be that kind. We'll see. But, none of them are bringing in multiple Blake's every year. I'm sure that Smart isn't. I used him as an example because he is OSU good. Even the elite programs won't have one but every few years.

 

[Ham]

the fact is this, Kruger is here now and I support him. I think he is a much better coach than Capel. But he's also a better coach then Drew and Ford. But those 2 coaches have a top 10 team.

There are no miracle workers. Getting OU from where they were when numbnuts was fired to a "top 10 team" by the third year (or even hypothetically for Capel by '13-'14 had he not been fired) would have been pretty well close to miraculous.

Scott Drew and Travis Ford have fully built their program under their own visions while Kruger is still cleaning up the slop left behind by Jeff Capel.

In Travis Ford's third year at OSU, they missed the big dance. Scott Drew missed the big dance in each of his first four years.

Meanwhile Lon Kruger has taken FIVE different programs to the Big Dance.

And he has clearly accomplished more by his third year in the current program over those two in their third years in each respective program. But woe is me...we don't currently have a top 10 team.

Sorry, man. Your view on all of this is laughable.

 

[Tundrasooner]

Capels recruiting was terrible. He failed from the start and couldn't keep anyone but Cocker. The guys he did bring in either flunked out, transferred, or got into trouble,off the court. He also cheated. Blake was coming here all along to play with his brother. Capel was also a terrible game coach. If you are going to be a players coach you better be able to recruit and he couldn't.

 

[MNsooner]

I think his biggest deficiencies were not having a "plan B" and finding adequate role players. He always swung for the fences.

He never just recruited solid players. It meant that he didn't have a framework of talent to fit his young stars into and I think that had a lot to do with why they flamed out.

 

[tycat947]

bgrch1350 responded. Everyone here knows he is a Capel guy, and he hasn't been happy since Capel left. We are so far removed from Capel, I don't understand why he gets so much board time anymore. It's almost as bad as all of the os-who discussion that goes on here.

I'm nobody, but I'm just suggesting, PLEASE don't turn the board into a everyone against bgrch fight. We all know where he stands, and we all know why he stands there. Let's just continue to support LK & OUr guys, and enjoy the climb OUr program is making......

:clap:clap:clap

We have a winner!!!

 

[Big Old Booger]

:clap:clap:clap

We have a winner!!!

Agreed. And I'm sure many remember I used to be the biggest Capel basher on this message board. But, he's gone now (praise the Lord) and Kruger is righting the ship.

Funny thing is some of the folks in this thread arguing against bgrch1350 were on his side 4 years ago. Most of them were arguing with me and wanting me banned. You know who you are. :ez-laugh: :ez-roll:

 

[NickZepp]

You want to compare the first 3 years of each coach?

Capel Kruger
Walker - Grooms
Crocker - Arent
Clark - M'Baye
Maze

Neysmith - Bennett
Early - Cousins
Griffin - Hornbeak
Davis - Hield
Leary - Spangler
Wright - Cole

Warren - Booker
Pattillo - Hamilton
Cannon - Woodard
Allen
Willis

Clark barely played and then never made it because of grades. And was a Sampson signee. So was Crocker.

The guy you compare M'Baye to is Patillo. Played well for one year only. Gone the next. Bennett in his year has done far more than Naysmith. Bennett has averaged 4 points and 2.4 rebounds in just under 11 minutes a game. That isn't bad. Neysmith averaged less than HALF a point per game and started 4 games.

Woodard looks a lot better than TMG or any other PG signees Capel had. Particularly as a PG.

 

[bgrch1350]

Are you impaired in some manner? Yes, you can give them whatever credit that they deserve. The amount of credit could be debated. But, you make your own judgment.

What I said was you can not evaluate their results when they have a once in a generation talent. You keep saying that Capel's claim to fame was getting to an elite 8. That is all well and good. But, it isn't good enough if it can only be done once a generation. It isn't worth the wait if the University and it's fans have to endure the mess left in Blake's wake.

You are vastly underestimating Blake. Randle may be that kind. We'll see. But, none of them are bringing in multiple Blake's every year. I'm sure that Smart isn't. I used him as an example because he is OSU good. Even the elite programs won't have one but every few years.

You keep calling Blake a once in a Generation talent. He made a huge stride from year ONE to year TWO.

As for not bringing in Multiple Blakes on a team...you are correct. What they are doing is bringing in Randle, with the Harrison twins and Young. Or a Jabari Parker with a Matt Jones and a Semi Ojeleye. Or they bring in a Andrew Wiggins with a Joel Embiid, and a Wayne Selden. Or they bring in an Aaron Gordon with a Rondae Jefferson and a Elliot Pitts.