Can Jeff Capel win without Blake Griffin? >>> The Oklahoman

[SoonerEyeDoc]

I can buy the rest, but this ridiculous. Scotty Reynolds, Damion James and Jeremy Mayfield would have made a huge difference in 2006. I can guarantee we wouldn't have finished one game over .500, and even more importantly, what would it have meant for the following seasons?

James and Reynolds had prodigious college careers, how good would we have been for the rest of their careers?

Exactly. Capel inherited a mess after recruiting had essentially ended with virtually an entire recruiting class leaving and signing elsewhere.

 

[StoopsBros]

I agree with you. Now that we finally know the actual #. This isnt that much. Although I sitll dont think he will be fired, It makes my opinion swing a bit towards him being let go more than I previously thought...interesting

My thoughts as well. At $4 mill, I thought there was no chance Joe fires him...$2 mill makes it more viable.

Why was the buyout leaked out anyways? To justify something? We'll see.

 

[trueou]

The good thing about this, is that I think Joe C has to move quickly either way. We cannot afford to have Capel as a lame duck for another month after we lose. Either say he is staying, or cut him loose.

This.

And I believe the Joe C will show his hand as soon as OU's playing in the Big XII tourney is complete. He knows that hesitation will just add to the problem. Also, if he decides to keep him don't expect an announcement that Jeff only has one year to turn things around. That will not happen. It would be better to fire him than to do that. Capel will lose out on any potential recruits if it is publicly stated that he is on a short leash.

 

[WTSooner]

I can buy the rest, but this ridiculous. Scotty Reynolds, Damion James and Jeremy Mayfield would have made a huge difference in 2006. I can guarantee we wouldn't have finished one game over .500, and even more importantly, what would it have meant for the following seasons?

James and Reynolds had prodigious college careers, how good would we have been for the rest of their careers?

Mayfield wouldn't have played at all.

And the question isn't how much Reynolds/James would have contributed over four years. It's how much they would have contributed as true frosh. I don't have the answer, but I'm not 100% sure that both would have even started that year.

 

[campbest]

My thoughts as well. At $4 mill, I thought there was no chance Joe fires him...$2 mill makes it more viable.

Why was the buyout leaked out anyways? To justify something? We'll see.

It's not secret information, just have to file an open-records request.

 

[boksooner]

Mayfield wouldn't have played at all.

And the question isn't how much Reynolds/James would have contributed over four years. It's how much they would have contributed as true frosh. I don't have the answer, but I'm not 100% sure that both would have even started that year.

Reynolds played almost 30 minutes a game (14.8 pts 4.0 assts) and James played almost 26 minutes per game (7.6 pts 7.2 rbs) for teams that had more talent than that OU team. Even if they hadn't started, they would have played significant minutes and had a significant impact.

 

[WTSooner]

Reynolds played almost 30 minutes a game (14.8 pts 4.0 assts) and James played almost 26 minutes per game (7.6 pts 7.2 rbs) for teams that had more talent than that OU team. Even if they hadn't started, they would have played significant minutes and had a significant impact.

Villanova had a big hole at pg, especially for Reynolds to step into. James is the one that might not have started from day 1, as he needed some polish.

I'm certainly not saying those guys weren't talented. I'm just saying those two as true frosh probably don't change the win column by a whole bunch.

 

[cowboysooner]

Anybody that doesn't think that Reynolds and James would have dramatically effected the record and success of our basketball program, particularly in the first season and last season, losed all credibility with me. That is absolutely absurd.

Both were freshman all-americans, ultimately all americans, and the best players on their respective teams for 4 years. What are you talking about.

The loss of Reynolds was particularly devastating. No disrespect to AJ (who was a 2), we haven't had a decent point guard in the entire Capel era. I blame him for that. However, if Joe C had not released the kids they would have had to stay around long enough to at least give Jeff a decent chance to get to know and recruit them. This is on Joe and not Jeff.

Reynolds was one of the 2 or 3 best point guards in the USA for 4 years and BIg East player of the year. And it is the opinion of some that he wouldnt have made a difference in our program. Again, absurd.

All this being said, Jeff deserves blame for the state of the program. I don't deny that. I just don't agree that his entire stay here has been poor. This, in my opinion, is revisionist thinking designed to support a current opinion. He has made mistakes. I just don't think those mistakes warrant firing him at this time. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but not to their own facts. It has been a mixed bag, and Jeff has done some good things and some bad things. All in all, opinions can vary, but mine is that he deserves another year.

 

[boksooner]

Villanova had a big hole at pg, especially for Reynolds to step into. James is the one that might not have started from day 1, as he needed some polish.

I'm certainly not saying those guys weren't talented. I'm just saying those two as true frosh probably don't change the win column by a whole bunch.

I disagree. Those two players give OU 3-4 more wins and send OU to the NIT at a minimum. Replacing Bobby Maze and Chris Walker's minutes with Reynolds is probably enough, by itself, to get OU to the postseason. James would have provided some solid forward minutes off the bench.

 

[colston15]

I'm certainly not saying those guys weren't talented. I'm just saying those two as true frosh probably don't change the win column by a whole bunch.

And i'm telling you that you're nuts if you think they wouldn't have made a big difference. 20 wins would've been a certainty with them, and, more importantly what would they have done throughout their careers here?

That cannot be overlooked. Losing two MCAA in one class can really set a program back.

 

[skyvue]

I can buy the rest, but this ridiculous. Scotty Reynolds, Damion James and Jeremy Mayfield would have made a huge difference in 2006. I can guarantee we wouldn't have finished one game over .500, and even more importantly, what would it have meant for the following seasons?

James and Reynolds had prodigious college careers, how good would we have been for the rest of their careers?

Whose talking about the reset of their careers? I'm talking about 2007, as were you in the passage I responded to.

James didn't light it up in his freshman season -- few freshmen do -- and I already acknowledged that one could argue that Reynolds could have helped us in '07. But he wouldn't have made a night-and-day difference that season, as we weren't bereft of point guard talent -- unless we've collectively switched around again and decided AJ was a waste of a scholly, since he's one of the players that some fans seem to enjoy flip-flopping on, when it supports their argument.

And besides, it could be argued -- though I'm neutral on this point, actually -- that Capel should have been able to convince at least a couple of those guys to stick around. We're assured by some that he's a terrific recruiter, a real charmer that kids just love. Well, we had those guys' names in ink on letters of intent, but they bailed. Should Capel come in for a little criticism for not being able to hang on them?

It's funny, those who defend Capel talk about how young we are. But then they turn around and insist that the reason the '07 squad barely crept above .500 was that we didn't have three more (admittedly talented) freshmen on the team.

Me, I never count on freshmen to make a big difference -- certainly not when considering hypothetical situations. Sometimes they do, but most often they're roles players at best.

And really, you're including Mayfield as a guy who would have put the '07 team over the top?

 

[WTSooner]

That cannot be overlooked. Losing two MCAA in one class can really set a program back.

Then why didn't it hurt OU when Lav, LMac, and Foust all left?

All they did the next year was win 20 games, take 3rd in the Big 12, and make the Dance. Oh, and land a monster class, the one you are talking about.

This crap that coaches can't adjust to losing players/classes is just that. Crap.

 

[WTSooner]

Both were freshman all-americans, ultimately all americans, and the best players on their respective teams for 4 years. What are you talking about.

James was the best player at UT?

Maybe his senior year. Pretty sure James wasn't all-american anything his frosh year. He wasn't even the best frosh on his own team. Maybe you've heard of a guy named Kevin Durant?

 

[boksooner]

Whose talking about the reset of their careers? I'm talking about 2007, as were you in the passage I responded to.

James didn't light it up in his freshman season -- few freshmen do -- and I already acknowledged that one could argue that Reynolds could have helped us in '07. But he wouldn't have made a night-and-day difference that season, as we weren't bereft of point guard talent -- unless we've collectively switched around again and decided AJ was a waste of a scholly, since he's one of the players that some fans seem to enjoy flip-flopping on, when it supports their argument.

And besides, it could be argued -- though I'm neutral on this point, actually -- that Capel should have been able to convince at least a couple of those guys to stick around. We're assured by some that he's a terrific recruiter, a real charmer that kids just love. Well, we had those guys' names in ink on letters of intent, but they bailed. Should Capel come in for a little criticism for not being able to hang on them?

It's funny, those who defend Capel talk about how young we are. But then they turn around and insist that the reason the '07 squad barely crept above .500 was that we didn't have three more (admittedly talented) freshmen on the team.

Me, I never count on freshmen to make a big difference -- certainly not when considering hypothetical situations. Sometimes they do, but most often they're roles players at best.

And really, you're including Mayfield as a guy who would have put the '07 team over the top?

Though I agree with most of your post, and agree with you in general, I do truly believe that Reynolds would have made a significant impact. I always have loved AJ BB. I don't see this as a AJ vs. Reynolds. I see this as Reynolds vs. Bobby Maze and Chris Walker. I guess it depends on what you think is a significant impact. To me, 3-4 games and an NIT/NCAA birth is significant and I believe Reynolds + James could have had that impact.

And as for the highlighted portion above, in Capel's defense, he did convince 2 of the 5 to stay. And if you believe the stories, neither Reynolds or James even talked to Capel.

Disclaimer: The above post is not meant to exonerate Capel in any way or bash the '07 team (other than Walker and Maze, but I mean, come on. One was terrible and the other was selfish/immature)

 

[StoopsBros]

Both Reynolds and James would have started.

PG - Reynolds/Johnson/Maze
SG - Neal/Carter/
SF - Crocker/Carter/Godbold
PF - James/TGriffin
C- Longar/TGriffin/Clark

That's at the very least, a NIT team.

 

[boksooner]

Both Reynolds and James would have started.

PG - Reynolds/Johnson/Maze
SG - Neal/Carter/
SF - Crocker/Carter/Godbold
PF - James/TGriffin
C- Longar/TGriffin/Clark

That's at the very least, a NIT team.

Carter was the best player at the end of the year. He definitely starts at the 3 or 4 spot. And Capel doesn't sign Maze, if Reynolds is on board.

PG - Johnson/Reynolds/Walker
SG - Neal/Godbold/Crocker
F - Carter/Crocker
F - James/TGriffin/Clark
C- Longar/TGriffin/Clark


I think there is a battle between Reynolds and AJ for the starting spot and I wouldn't be shocked if Capel would have started them both, when Neal went through his shooting slump.

 

[StoopsBros]

Carter was the best player at the end of the year. He definitely starts at the 3 or 4 spot. And Capel doesn't sign Maze, if Reynolds is on board.

PG - Johnson/Reynolds/Walker
SG - Neal/Godbold/Crocker
F - Carter/Crocker
F - James/TGriffin/Clark
C- Longar/TGriffin/Clark


I think there is a battle between Reynolds and AJ for the starting spot and I wouldn't be shocked if Capel would have started them both, when Neal went through his shooting slump.

You're right about Maze, wrong about Reynolds not starting over Johnson. It wouldn't have been close. Reynolds averaged 14 ppg and 4 assists as a true frosh. Scottie was significantly better than AJ. I think Godbold or Crocker would have taken some of Neal/Carter's minutes. I guess we'll never know, but James and Reynolds (IMO) would have been the two best players on that team. James averaged 7.4 rebounds his frosh year, that would have led that Sooner team. Scottie's 4 apg would have led the team as would his 14 ppg.

 

[colston15]

Whose talking about the reset of their careers? I'm talking about 2007, as were you in the passage I responded to.

James didn't light it up in his freshman season -- few freshmen do -- and I already acknowledged that one could argue that Reynolds could have helped us in '07. But he wouldn't have made a night-and-day difference that season, as we weren't bereft of point guard talent -- unless we've collectively switched around again and decided AJ was a waste of a scholly, since he's one of the players that some fans seem to enjoy flip-flopping on, when it supports their argument.

And besides, it could be argued -- though I'm neutral on this point, actually -- that Capel should have been able to convince at least a couple of those guys to stick around. We're assured by some that he's a terrific recruiter, a real charmer that kids just love. Well, we had those guys' names in ink on letters of intent, but they bailed. Should Capel come in for a little criticism for not being able to hang on them?

It's funny, those who defend Capel talk about how young we are. But then they turn around and insist that the reason the '07 squad barely crept above .500 was that we didn't have three more (admittedly talented) freshmen on the team.

Me, I never count on freshmen to make a big difference -- certainly not when considering hypothetical situations. Sometimes they do, but most often they're roles players at best.

And really, you're including Mayfield as a guy who would have put the '07 team over the top?

Is it really a hypothetical when we know what they averaged at other schools as freshman? Reynolds averaged almost 15 ppg at Villanova and James almost 8 at UT.

We know they were productive players as freshman. It doesn't seem like a stretch to assume they would have been productive at OU.

And no, I don't think Mayfield would've made a big difference, but it would've given us another big body up front.

I don't have the numbers, so I could be very wrong, but, I would imagine that overwhelmingly, kids that are let out of there LOI's sign elsewhere as opposed to sticking with the new coach.

And don't think for a second that KS wasn't going to lean heavily on Reynolds, and to some extent James to be successful thier freshman year.

 

[schoonerdriver]

I think the article is right, we look like Virginia Commonwealth. Our coaching staff (Assistants) look like they are from the Southland Conference or worse, that has a lot to do with it. No Assistant would take the job.

Betts
2006-present, Oklahoma Assistant Coach
2004-06, South Carolina State Head Coach
2003, Virginia Commonwealth Assistant Coach
1998-2002, College of Charleston Assistant Coach
1991-97, South Carolina State Assistant Coach
Feb.-Oct. 1995, SCSU Interim Head Coach

Goodman
2010-present, Oklahoma Assistant Coach
2006-10, Oklahoma Director of Operations
2001-06, Bucknell Assistant Coach
1999-2000, Susquehanna University Assistant Coach
1997-98, Barat College Assistant Coach

Phelps
2010-present, Oklahoma Assistant Coach
2007-2009 OU Video Director
2003-06, UT-San Antonio Assistant Coach
1999-03, Texas State Assistant Coach
1998-99, Baylor Assistant Coach
1994-98, Texas Lutheran Assistant Coach
1989-93, Texas Lutheran Assistant Coach

If Capel stays, his staff must change. Its amazing that no one has any experience at a high level program. It was probably discussed last year, but why did Capel promote the Director of Operations and the Video Director? Is that a normal progression for those positions?

I would like to see Capel add a former head coach like OSU had with Dickey. But this would only work if Capel is open to outside opinions and what little I know of Capel it seems that he may be a little hard headed.

 

[Big Old Booger]

If Capel stays, his staff must change. Its amazing that no one has any experience at a high level program. It was probably discussed last year, but why did Capel promote the Director of Operations and the Video Director? Is that a normal progression for those positions?

I would like to see Capel add a former head coach like OSU had with Dickey. But this would only work if Capel is open to outside opinions and what little I know of Capel it seems that he may be a little hard headed.

Somebody posted on this message board that capel had a big name for one of the asst coach jobs but the coach wanted a 2 year contract and Joe would only give a 1 year contract.

If this is true, it sounds like Joe was already to the point of being done with Capel, but this thought goes against everything I hear from credible sources.