Coaching

[Big Old Booger]

This is a mythical issue.

"Hey, I'm Kevin Ollie, head coach of Uconn, we just won our 4th national title, most of any program in the past 16 years. You probably saw us against Kentucky with Ray Allen & Rip Hamilton cheering us on. Andre Drummond? Yeah he went here too. I played 13 years in the NBA. You probably saw Lebron's tweet pulling for us. Anyway, you want to come here and compete for titles and go on deep runs in March to showcase your NBA skills? Because if you would rather attend Missouri and chant SEC I understand. O, you never heard of them? Cool cool".

Time will tell. I think due to UConn's close proximity to NYC, it may not mean much but you never know. Once Louisville is gone to the ACC next year, UConn's conference isn't going to be very good. How many players are going to want to play SMU, Tulane, Navy, Rutgers, South Florida, etc., as opposed to playing UNC, Duke, Cuse, Notre Dame, WF, NC State, etc or Georgetown, Villanova, St Johns, etc.?

 

[bocabull]

We'll see BOB. How about playing against Cincy, Memphis, a rising SMU with Larry Brown, a rising Houston with Kelvin Sampson. Sounds a little better then huh? Besides I contend that kids care more about winning and playing on elite teams than what conference they play in. Conferences are for fans, players wanna ball and win. Uconn is recruiting nationwide wide in addition to the NE too. Daniels is a 5 star from Florida and they have a 5 star from California coming in next season.

I can see Sampson and Brown selling the AAC as the better basketball conference than the Big XII. From all accounts SMU is already delivering a better fan environment than OU.

 

[campbest]

This is a mythical issue.

"Hey, I'm Kevin Ollie, head coach of Uconn, we just won our 4th national title, most of any program in the past 16 years. You probably saw us against Kentucky with Ray Allen & Rip Hamilton cheering us on. Andre Drummond? Yeah he went here too. I played 13 years in the NBA. You probably saw Lebron's tweet pulling for us. Anyway, you want to come here and compete for titles and go on deep runs in March to showcase your NBA skills? Because if you would rather attend Missouri and chant SEC I understand. O, you never heard of them? Cool cool".

This stuff matters to kids, a lot more than older people realize. What a team did in the 80's is almost irrelevant unless you are a blue blood program. OU's success under Tubbs is very insignificant...someone like Blake Griffin is much more persuading.

 

[campbest]

From all accounts SMU is already delivering a better fan environment than OU.

It's not even close.

That school DESPERATELY wants to get behind a winning program, football isn't cutting it so basketball is next up. If Brown stays a couple years, the next coach is going to inherit a gold mine.

 

[WTSooner]

You are too young so you don't remember Lamar before Tubbs came to OU. Not to mention, look at Lamar after he left and since he left and look at VCU before Capel and after he left.

I'm not even going to mention the state of the program when Tubbs was hired as opposed to Capels hiring.

You need to back this truck up and start over because you are way off here.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make? There was not much different in VCU before Capel, and Lamar before Billy. And Lamar had success after Billy, just like VCU is having success after Capel. So.....I'm not sure exactly what your point is. Yes, Lamar is NOW in the crapper, but that has nothing to do with Tubbs.

We've been thru this as well. You can disagree all you want, but the difference wasn't all that much. When Tubbs took over at OU, they were coming off a 1st place finish in the Big 8 two years prior, and two top 2 finishes in the Big 8 in the last four years. In Tubbs' last 4 years there was a 2nd place finish, two 5th place finishes, and a 6th place finish. So?

As for where Tubbs was from vs where Capel was from, who cares? Kelvin had no ties to this area and he did just fine. Kruger's ties to this area are probably non-existent in terms of having a benefit, being that so many years have passed. He is doing fine. Billy Donavan doesn't appear to have had many ties to Florida, yet he is winning at a high level down there. If you can coach, you can win anywhere. That shouldn't be a decision in hiring a guy, 90% of the time.

 

[bgrch1350]

Capel was left a lot more than Capel left Kruger. The elite 8 team was Capel's third year and still included three Sampson players as starters in T. Griffin, Crocker and AJ.

Sampson left Longar, Michael Neal, T. Griffin, Godbold, Crocker, Keith Clark, Nate Carter and AJ. That was a solid 8 man rotation and had Capel been able to keep the recruiting class it would have included Reynolds and James.

Capel left Fitzgerald, Pledger, Neal, Osby and Blair. I think there is a big difference.

Regardless of players Sampson left a team that was used to winning and working hard. Capel left a team that was used to losing.

1st, subtract Clark and Crocker

2nd, Capel inherited 33.5 ppg, and Kruger inherited 55.8 ppg

3rd, Kruger inherited 4 returning starter, 3 top bench players and Osby
Capel inherited 2 returning starters and the top 3 bench players

 

[jerry]

No matter what was left behind in either time here the good news for the future of the OU basketball program is that Capel got his rear end fired because he took the OU program to it's lowest point.


Also, I think the AD community out there knows how bad he was, as Collins and WoJo have both received head coaching jobs with no head coaching experience and Capel is still an assistant where he probably belongs.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make? There was not much different in VCU before Capel, and Lamar before Billy. And Lamar had success after Billy, just like VCU is having success after Capel. So.....I'm not sure exactly what your point is. Yes, Lamar is NOW in the crapper, but that has nothing to do with Tubbs.

We've been thru this as well. You can disagree all you want, but the difference wasn't all that much. When Tubbs took over at OU, they were coming off a 1st place finish in the Big 8 two years prior, and two top 2 finishes in the Big 8 in the last four years. In Tubbs' last 4 years there was a 2nd place finish, two 5th place finishes, and a 6th place finish. So?

As for where Tubbs was from vs where Capel was from, who cares? Kelvin had no ties to this area and he did just fine. Kruger's ties to this area are probably non-existent in terms of having a benefit, being that so many years have passed. He is doing fine. Billy Donavan doesn't appear to have had many ties to Florida, yet he is winning at a high level down there. If you can coach, you can win anywhere. That shouldn't be a decision in hiring a guy, 90% of the time.

You make VCU out to be like FGCU, a new program with no tradition or winning, before Capel was there and that's just not true. VCU had a good program in the early 80's. They had 5 NCAA appearances, couple of those years when the field was 48 not 64. Lamar didn't have one single tourney appearance before Tubbs arrived.

VCU:
NCAA Tournament appearances
1980, 1981, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 2004, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014

Lamar:
NCAA Tournament appearances
1979, 1980, 1981, 1983, 2000, 2012

(Lamar went to 3 of the next 4 NCAA tourneys after Tubbs left for OU; 1 of those was when the field was 40 teams and the other 2 were when it was 48)

VCU is in a hotbed of recruiting, Lamar at the time was in the middle of a football state with 8 members of the SWC in the same state. So, Lamar wasn't getting the top tier athletes in Texas.

Like I said, you have no clue. You googled something and it matched your argument, somewhat, and you went with it.

I don't have to google to find points for my argument, I lived it! I watched VCU in the early 80's, heck OU played them in Hawaii in the 83 season and when we beat them in OT it was a good win. The next night we played UNC with Jordan and Perkins, and I watched that too. I also watched Tubbs Lamar team play Michigan State and Magic Johnson fairly tough in the NCAA tourney the year Magic led the spartans to the NC. The same year we lost to Indiana State and Larry Bird.

 

[WTSooner]

I don't have to google to find points for my argument, I lived it!

Liar.

You telling me you didn't Google this list?

VCU:
NCAA Tournament appearances
1980, 1981, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 2004, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014

Lamar:
NCAA Tournament appearances
1979, 1980, 1981, 1983, 2000, 2012

 

[WTSooner]

I watched VCU in the early 80's, heck OU played them in Hawaii in the 83 season and when we beat them in OT it was a good win. The next night we played UNC with Jordan and Perkins, and I watched that too. I also watched Tubbs Lamar team play Michigan State and Magic Johnson fairly tough in the NCAA tourney the year Magic led the spartans to the NC. The same year we lost to Indiana State and Larry Bird.

So you're old. Not sure what that has to do with this discussion? VCU having a decent program two decades before Capel got there doesn't prove anything. So? They weren't decent when he took over, so he was building from scratch pretty much. Same as Tubbs at Lamar.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Liar.

You telling me you didn't Google this list?

No, I googled that to prove my point. I knew VCU had been to the NCAA tourney in the early 80's and that they had at least 2-3 appearances before Capel ever arrived.

I also googled Lamar to prove my point that Lamar didn't have anything before Tubbs. I remember when Tubbs was hired how excited were members of my family due to what he'd done at Lamar, a nothing program.

I knew both of these before the fact though. You can believe me if you want, I don't care.

The fact is, you are bringing a pea shooter to this fight and I'm loaded with a bazooka. :facepalm

 

[Big Old Booger]

So you're old. Not sure what that has to do with this discussion? VCU having a decent program two decades before Capel got there doesn't prove anything. So? They weren't decent when he took over, so he was building from scratch pretty much. Same as Tubbs at Lamar.

Whatever dude. Now your being ignorant. Just admit your entire argument is wrong and move on. :facepalm

I guess if you consider 43 old, then yes, I'm old. I think 40 is the new 30 so I think I'm young. The difference is, I grew up in a household when the sooners were playing a home game (football, basketball, baseball) we were there. When the sooners played a road game, we either watched if available or listened on the radio.

I wasn't the kid who played video games or other worthless things. I was as big a sooner fan as you would ever find in those days especially given the limited ways we had to follow them.

 

[DenverSooner]

1st, subtract Clark and Crocker

2nd, Capel inherited 33.5 ppg, and Kruger inherited 55.8 ppg

3rd, Kruger inherited 4 returning starter, 3 top bench players and Osby
Capel inherited 2 returning starters and the top 3 bench players

How do you figure. They were signed by Sampson.

Good teams lose their top scorers. Bad teams return their top scores. Really bad teams return all of their top scorers.

Kruger inherited Carl Blair, Fitzgerald, and Pledger as three of those starters. Those are three of the worst starters in the last 30 years or OU basketball. Pledger would have been great on the right team but he was a great role player not a star player.

If you can't see that Capel was the worst coach at OU since Bob Stevens, you are blind. He came to a program won 68% of his conference games and proceeded to turn the team into a perpetual loser in the Big XII. He had one good season and he did that because a freak of nature grew up in Edmond Oklahoma. The guy was a complete joke. Tell me what his offensive philosophy was? Tell me his defensive philosophy? Tell me his recruiting philosophy? You can't do any of that because he had no system and didn't know what he was doing.

 

[DenverSooner]

So you're old. Not sure what that has to do with this discussion? VCU having a decent program two decades before Capel got there doesn't prove anything. So? They weren't decent when he took over, so he was building from scratch pretty much. Same as Tubbs at Lamar.

Age gives you perspective and wisdom that young people don't have. It isn't an insult to the younger person. Most of us that are older than you would love to have our perspective and wisdom with your youth.

 

[sperry]

The OP is right. This board of course has a lot of irrational fans that hate Capel on a personal level. That's okay.


It was a good hire. Capel was a hot young coaching prospect. He came in and made moves. Recruited well and put together a team that made an Elite 8 run. And yes some of those guys were Sampson guys, but the two best players on that team were Capel recruits.



Capel also messed up. He recruited talented but risky guys, and it ended up blowing up in his face. But that doesn't make him a bad hire. Counting every coaching move that doesn't work out as a "bad hire" would be ridiculous. There isn't always going to be a Lon Kruger that you can go out and hire.

 

[Max Power]

Caple also went 0-18 in year 4 the first year without Sampson players. He ran us into the ground. And yes it is 0-18 we had to vacate all 13 wins from that year.

 

[Max Power]

1st, subtract Clark and Crocker

2nd, Capel inherited 33.5 ppg, and Kruger inherited 55.8 ppg

3rd, Kruger inherited 4 returning starter, 3 top bench players and Osby
Capel inherited 2 returning starters and the top 3 bench players

Caple inherited a team that had one 45 games the previous 2 years, kruger inherited a team that won 14 the 2 years before. If you want to talk stats put them in the correct context. Caples players had no clue how to win, sampsons did.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Screw the offseason!

 

[WTSooner]

Age gives you perspective and wisdom that young people don't have. It isn't an insult to the younger person. Most of us that are older than you would love to have our perspective and wisdom with your youth.

It also causes folks to misremember. And that isn't just an age thing either. People, and especially sports fans, often look back and remember situations or players as something other than accurate. Happens all the time.

 

[DenverSooner]

It also causes folks to misremember. And that isn't just an age thing either. People, and especially sports fans, often look back and remember situations or players as something other than accurate. Happens all the time.

I agree. My memory of OU football games from my time in College was that OU scored 50+ virtually every game from 85-87. In reality that didn't happen. It was the internet and more precisely Soonerstats.com that enlightened me.