Coaching

[DenverSooner]

c'mon.

The top was better in 2008 (but not by 10 times) but the bottom half of the conference was bad. Todays big 12 is a lot more equal

I don't even know that the top was better in 2008. If Embied plays for KU and Niang plays for ISU, is the top better? An upset in the Tournament doesn't make a team better or worse, it just means the team got beat.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Capel was a horrible coach.

Now that we have this covered can we all admit the original premise of this thread, that Capel and Ollie or Capel and Tubbs were similar when they were hired at OU (Capel and Tubbs) and UConn (Ollie), is silly? :facepalm

 

[WTSooner]

Now that we have this covered can we all admit the original premise of this thread, that Capel and Ollie or Capel and Tubbs were similar when they were hired at OU (Capel and Tubbs) and UConn (Ollie), is silly? :facepalm

No, we can't. Why can't YOU give it up? You don't agree, fine. Move on. There are some that do (agree). It's an OPINION-BASED subject matter anyways. There is no right or wrong answer.

On paper, I'd take Capel over Ollie 100x over before their respective OU/UCONN jobs. Obviously I'd be wrong, but anybody that would take Ollie over Capel, before those jobs, based on resumes, is a fool.

 

[skyvue]

On paper, I'd take Capel over Ollie 100x over before their respective OU/UCONN jobs. Obviously I'd be wrong, but anybody that would take Ollie over Capel, before those jobs, based on resumes, is a fool.

If Ollie's resume was so unimpressive, why in the world would UConn have hired him? They surely could have had their pick of some pretty impressive candidates, no?

 

[campbest]

If Ollie's resume was so unimpressive, why in the world would UConn have hired him? They surely could have had their pick of some pretty impressive candidates, no?

He was a UCONN guy, Calhoun vouched for him, he recruited well the two years he was there. Could get him at a discount over other popular names, we're talking about a school that is very much in conference limbo because they don't have a marketable football team.

 

[WTSooner]

If Ollie's resume was so unimpressive, why in the world would UConn have hired him? They surely could have had their pick of some pretty impressive candidates, no?

Familiarity with the program? Maybe Calhoun saw something that a resume can't show? None of us knew Capel or Ollie well enough to consider that stuff. All we have is the resume. But I think Calhoun had a gut feeling about Ollie, and the UCONN AD trusted Calhoun enough to trust that gut feeling.

 

[skyvue]

Familiarity with the program? Maybe Calhoun saw something that a resume can't show? None of us knew Capel or Ollie well enough to consider that stuff. All we have is the resume. But I think Calhoun had a gut feeling about Ollie, and the UCONN AD trusted Calhoun enough to trust that gut feeling.

Well, that's the thing: They knew him. They were familiar with him (and he with their players and program).

Joe C. and OU didn't know Capel. There were no ties. No familiarity -- with our program or the region in which we compete -- on Capel's part. And no trusted source like Calhoun to vouch for the guy.

So to compare the hiring of the two coaches as they appeared "on paper" doesn't begin to tell the whole story.

 

[campbest]

Ollie is Warde Manuel's guy, believe he was his first hire and both were minority candidates. It was a high risk / high reward hire, no way around it.

When you peel back the onion, becomes easier to see how Ollie could land the job.

 

[campbest]

Well, that's the thing: They knew him. They were familiar with him (and he with their players and program).

Joe C. and OU didn't know Capel. There were no ties. No familiarity -- with our program or the region in which we compete -- on Capel's part. And no trusted source like Calhoun to vouch for the guy.

So to compare the hiring of the two coaches as they appeared "on paper" doesn't begin to tell the whole story.

Coach K vouched for Capel, that holds a lot of water in the college basketball world.

 

[WTSooner]

Well, that's the thing: They knew him. They were familiar with him (and he with their players and program).

Joe C. and OU didn't know Capel. There were no ties. No familiarity -- with our program or the region in which we compete -- on Capel's part. And no trusted source like Calhoun to vouch for the guy.

So to compare the hiring of the two coaches as they appeared "on paper" doesn't begin to tell the whole story.

Maybe, but it's not like Joe C. didn't do his homework. I'm sure he asked around. I'm sure he talked to Coach K. I can't remember if we used a "service" at all to help with the search, but even if we didn't, I'm sure Joe C. put in the work. Capel was thought to be a bright young coach at the time. Nationally. OU wasn't the only school that would have taken a chance on Capel at some point. Guessing a year later he'd have drawn interest from other OU-like bball programs.

 

[WTSooner]

Coach K vouched for Capel, that holds a lot of water in the college basketball world.

Exactly.

It didn't work out. It happens. I could still see Capel turning into a good/solid HC down the road. He just made a lot of mistakes at OU, and kind of buried himself before he even got going. Might not happen somewhere else. Might have learned, and might do things differently.

 

[campbest]

OU and Castiglione bought low, which isn't a bad idea, just purchased the wrong stock.

Should of nabbed Gregg Marshall at Winthrop, but from some accounts used to be a terrible interview.

 

[skyvue]

I'm not ragging on the hire (though it certainly didn't work out); I'm questioning the comparison of the two hirings.

One coach was a quantity known by the school (and who was familiar with the culture of UConn basketball); the other wasn't. I don't care what consultants were used or that Coach K vouched for him -- does anyone really think he would speak ill of the guy? -- Capel was an unknown quantity to Joe C., so Joe was forced to rely on the input and opinions of others outside our program, our conference and our region in making his decision.

That's very different from the UConn situation.

 

[WTSooner]

I'm not ragging on the hire (though it certainly didn't work out); I'm questioning the comparison of the two hirings.

One coach was a quantity known by the school (and who was familiar with the culture of UConn basketball); the other wasn't. I don't care what consultants were used or that Coach K vouched for him -- does anyone really think he would speak ill of the guy? -- Capel was an unknown quantity to Joe C., so Joe was forced to rely on the input and opinions of others outside our program, our conference and our region in making his decision.

That's very different from the UConn situation.

How is it different?

Calhoun vouched for Ollie. Coach K. vouched for Capel. Ollie had very little assistant coaching experience. Capel had both assistant and HC experience, and had some successes as a HC at VCU. You say Capel was unknown to Joe C. ANYBODY we hired would have been unknown to Joe C. And I'm sure Ollie was relatively unknown to the UCONN AD. I doubt they were best friends, and the AD hired him based on that. From all reports, Ollie was hired on Calhoun's word alone. But back to Capel being unknown to Joe C., wouldn't any hire have been unknown to Joe C.? Unless you hire a guy you hired before, or something, that is generally the case. That is why they get references.

 

[campbest]

UCONN's AD was hired in February 2012, Ollie was named head coach a few months later.

 

[skyvue]

How is it different?

Calhoun vouched for Ollie. Coach K. vouched for Capel. Ollie had very little assistant coaching experience. Capel had both assistant and HC experience, and had some successes as a HC at VCU. You say Capel was unknown to Joe C. ANYBODY we hired would have been unknown to Joe C. And I'm sure Ollie was relatively unknown to the UCONN AD. I doubt they were best friends, and the AD hired him based on that. From all reports, Ollie was hired on Calhoun's word alone. But back to Capel being unknown to Joe C., wouldn't any hire have been unknown to Joe C.? Unless you hire a guy you hired before, or something, that is generally the case. That is why they get references.

You're being obstinate, or I'm communicating poorly (perhaps both).

Ollie played at UConn. He had been an assistant at UConn. In recommending him, Calhoun was naming the person who would succeed him at UConn, so he had something more at stake (as opposed to Coach K, who was just doing a former player and friend a favor).

Capel, at the time Joe C. hired him, knew nothing about OU, the Big 12, the state of Oklahoma or even the general region in which Oklahoma resides. He hadn't played at OU (or in the region/conference), he hadn't coached at OU (or in the region/conference), he hadn't resided in the area.

It's apples and oranges. One coach was very familiar with the culture he was entering; the other was a complete outsider.

 

[WTSooner]

You're being obstinate, or I'm communicating poorly (perhaps both).

Ollie played at UConn. He had been an assistant at UConn. In recommending him, Calhoun was naming the person who would succeed him at UConn, so he had something more at stake (as opposed to Coach K, who was just doing a former player and friend a favor).

Capel, at the time Joe C. hired him, knew nothing about OU, the Big 12, the state of Oklahoma or even the general region in which Oklahoma resides. He hadn't played at OU (or in the region/conference), he hadn't coached at OU (or in the region/conference), he hadn't resided in the area.

It's apples and oranges. One coach was very familiar with the culture he was entering; the other was a complete outsider.

Fair enough. I don't give that much value though. I'd say most, or a lot, of coaching hires are like that. Kelvin Sampson had no ties to OU or this region when we hired him. That worked out. Stoops had very few ties to this area (a year or two as an assistant at KSU?) when he was hired. If a guy can coach, to me, this is a non-issue 95% of the time. Capel didn't fail at OU because of our culture. IMO, at least.

 

[skyvue]

Fair enough. I don't give that much value though. I'd say most, or a lot, of coaching hires are like that. Kelvin Sampson had no ties to OU or this region when we hired him. That worked out. Stoops had very few ties to this area (a year or two as an assistant at KSU?) when he was hired. If a guy can coach, to me, this is a non-issue 95% of the time. Capel didn't fail at OU because of our culture. IMO, at least.

You're absolutely right that familiarity/previous involvement with a program is no guarantee of success (nor is an outsider sure to fail), but hiring a coach like Ollie is less of a leap than hiring someone like Capel because he's a known quantity, a familiar face, a person known by those involved with the program.

I don't think unfamiliarity with OU, the Big 12, and the state of Oklahoma were the primary reasons Capel came up short, but I'd say they factored in. One need only compare his outreach efforts with Kruger's to get a sense of that. Part of that is Kruger's greater experience, and personality always comes into play, too. But I think Kruger has a good sense of the region and its people that Capel lacked.

 

[WaymanFan]

Stoops had very few ties to this area (a year or two as an assistant at KSU?) when he was hired. If a guy can coach, to me, this is a non-issue 95% of the time. Capel didn't fail at OU because of our culture. IMO, at least.

The reason Bob Stoops is a bad comparison is because OU is a destination job in college football...definitely one of the top 3-top 5 jobs in college football. A coach won't hesitate to uproot their family and make central Oklahoma their permanent home. I'm sure coaches with all their ties to the southeast would do that in a heartbeat at a school like Kansas for basketball. But OU? Even if the Jeff Capel hire would have worked out, my gut tells me he would have been looking to get back closer to his roots at some point.

We'll have to agree to disagree that geography does/doesn't make a difference.