Doolittle

[slides]

My wife is a professor and it is generally up to her, she can fail the student for the paper, fail the student for the class, or turn it over to the academic integrity board, if it is turned over to the board and a violation is found, they generally have set policies for suspension or other punishment

The judgement can be was it intentional or not, a repeat offender, etc . But if the professor is a hard ass or just didn't want the possibility of preferential treatment to an athlete or just to cover their own ass, and they turned a simple mistake over to an administrative board, you could absolutely end up with a suspension over a paragraph

 

[SoonerBounce13]

10 years back or so I was hired by a firm in a major city to investigate and report on a local player for an NFL team prior to the draft. Their entire problem was determining the veracity of claims just like the ones you guys are making here. At least 2 teams didnt even bother to investigate and passed him over in favor of other players.

I tell you this because any time I try to get posters to refrain from negative speculation you guys give me a hard time about it. I am hoping that you guys understand that these little comments you come up with DO potentially have deleterious effects on these players and their careers.

No, it doesnt have to have been anything else that he did additionally. And your unfounded negative speculation does nothing but potentially harm a young man just starting off his life.

Please have some consideration for the players. If you dont think these comments get out and can have an impact you are way off. Saying he "must have" done something more is just more dangerous a statement than it is worth. Speculate in the positive direction if you must.

/soapbox

lol ok

internets are serious business

 

[AdaSooner]

I will repeat two posts Postman77 made yesterday for those who might have missed it. Postman was not my original source, but he has proved to be a reliable one over the years by providing information that turned out to be true.

I have a really solid source that that says that he failed to cite 1 paragraph on a paper. Prof turned him in for plagiarism...which was their right. Obviously, Kristian should have taken care of business better, but hardly an issue that can't be recovered from.

Plagiarism IS an academic integrity issue. The info is legit...backed by three sources.

I'm not saying Postman is the only one who knows for sure what Kristian did to be suspended. I am saying anyone who is simply making a wild guess with little or no facts to support their claim, needs to move on. Nothing will be accomplished by beating this kid up with senseless accusations. He admitted he made a mistake and promised to do better. Let's give him a chance to show he learned from his experience.

 

[hoopsaustin]

10 years back or so I was hired by a firm in a major city to investigate and report on a local player for an NFL team prior to the draft. Their entire problem was determining the veracity of claims just like the ones you guys are making here. At least 2 teams didnt even bother to investigate and passed him over in favor of other players.

I tell you this because any time I try to get posters to refrain from negative speculation you guys give me a hard time about it. I am hoping that you guys understand that these little comments you come up with DO potentially have deleterious effects on these players and their careers.

No, it doesnt have to have been anything else that he did additionally. And your unfounded negative speculation does nothing but potentially harm a young man just starting off his life.

Please have some consideration for the players. If you dont think these comments get out and can have an impact you are way off. Saying he "must have" done something more is just more dangerous a statement than it is worth. Speculate in the positive direction if you must.

/soapbox

Are you seriously portraying that you perused anonymous message boards for your determination?? :ez-roll:

 

[coolm]

Are you seriously portraying that you perused anonymous message boards for your determination?? :ez-roll:

No. I had to investigate a bunch of legal issues and potential legal issues some of which ended up having their origin in fan gossip.

eye rolling? I've been doing this for 25 years. How long have you been doing it?

 

[WTSooner]

No. I had to investigate a bunch of legal issues and potential legal issues some of which ended up having their origin in fan gossip.

eye rolling? I've been doing this for 25 years. How long have you been doing it?

Get over yourself.

 

[scrybe]

Sorry, but I've got to agree with cool and Ada in this discussion.

The hyperbole on this board is excessive and often absurd. I don't have any idea if wild speculation regarding Kristian will cause him harm somewhere down the line. I do know, however, that lots of folks enjoy making accusations when they have not a single fact to back them up.

 

[chuckb]

Plagiarism IS an academic integrity issue. The info is legit...backed by three sources.

I agree absolutely. Plagiarism is taking another's original words or thoughts and passing them off as one's own. It is a serious issue of academic integrity and, in my opinion, demands a punishment more severe than a grade reduction on the paper. Unless anyone has any other information, it's irresponsible to suggest that Kristian did anything else.

That said, I also want to make clear that there are many reasons why plagiarism can occur and it doesn't mean that Kristian is a bad person. Maybe he deliberately stole someone else's ideas or thoughts. But maybe not. Properly citing another's work is a lot of work in itself (but still the right thing to do) and it's really easy to, for example, lose track of where a couple quotes came from and just think that no one's going to notice. If it's one paragraph or so, it's a punishable mistake but not nearly like plagiarizing an entire paper. Also, sometimes kids aren't clear when work needs to be cited ( though they should be) and they slip up. Or they just skip over a paragraph by accident when they're putting their citations in.

The point is that plagiarism is a serious issue and should be punished seriously. I think a semester suspension is appropriate. But to me, it's not fair to brand him as a "cheater" seeing how we know very few facts. It's not the same as copying another's exam or paper (unless he did just copy and paste someone else's work). Based on what we've heard, it sounds like he messed up with his citations, either just because he got confused, he made a mistake, or he got a little lazy when writing a paper.

It's just completely unfair for any of us to suggest anything worse than improperly citing a portion of a paper without facts to support that.

 

[sheepdogs1]

Get over yourself.

Sometimes we ask too much.

 

[skyvue]

It's just completely unfair for any of us to suggest anything worse than improperly citing a portion of a paper without facts to support that.

Yep.

 

[stormspencer]

Well, then, don't cheat. Do the crime, do the time. It's college, and if you try and pull that stuff with the wrong professor you'll be pursued to the ends of the earth until the punishment is handed down.

This.

 

[BigTime]

Get over yourself.

This is rich coming from the source. Lmbo

As for the topic, hope he learns from this and moves forward.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Sorry, but I've got to agree with cool and Ada in this discussion.

The hyperbole on this board is excessive and often absurd. I don't have any idea if wild speculation regarding Kristian will cause him harm somewhere down the line. I do know, however, that lots of folks enjoy making accusations when they have not a single fact to back them up.

so again, let's shut down the board. Delete any posts that are not 100% fact.

What is a message board for if it isn't for discussion and speculation? Fan discussing reasons why a player might have been expelled isn't going to hurt the young man

 

[SoonerBounce13]

It's just completely unfair for any of us to suggest anything worse than improperly citing a portion of a paper without facts to support that.

but let me get this right, those that are getting onto posters for speculating too much, are speculating themselves that it is a case of plagairism...b/c I don't think it has 100% factly came out yet that this is what happened.

A bit hypocritical don't you think?

 

[WTSooner]

so again, let's shut down the board. Delete any posts that are not 100% fact.

What is a message board for if it isn't for discussion and speculation? Fan discussing reasons why a player might have been expelled isn't going to hurt the young man

Exactly.

It isn't going to hurt Doolittle's reputation or post-OU career for a few fans to suggest that maybe there is a bit more to the story than a one-time, one-paragraph, plagiarism. Could be as simple as the teacher asked him if he plagiarized it and he said no, or it was more than one paragraph, or it wasn't the first time. None of those things would mean I think he should meet the firing squad, but being suspended for a semester, for ONE paragraph, when he easily could have argued that he forgot to cite it, or he simply could have cited it and added a few words of his own, seems extreme to me. I have the right to have that opinion. And that is all I'm presenting it as.....MY OPINION.

 

[hoopsaustin]

No. I had to investigate a bunch of legal issues and potential legal issues some of which ended up having their origin in fan gossip.

eye rolling? I've been doing this for 25 years. How long have you been doing it?

3 years :woot

When's the anonymous message board cle?

 

[thebigabd]

https://integrity.ou.edu/students.html

 

[okhoops918]

Ctrl+c, Ctrl+v

 

[WTSooner]

https://integrity.ou.edu/students.html

I stand by what I said.

If you read the info at that link, there are a lot of other "penalties" available that in my mind would be more appropriate for plagiarizing a single paragraph. Again, that is JMO, which I've formed given the info that I know.

 

[coolm]

but let me get this right, those that are getting onto posters for speculating too much, are speculating themselves that it is a case of plagairism...b/c I don't think it has 100% factly came out yet that this is what happened.

A bit hypocritical don't you think?

no. you miss the point. once there was a rumor that he was being suspended I said "we should wait to see what the coach says".

then once it was a fact I said "we will get past it. maybe it will give others a chance to get more PT etc..."

then once it was rumored to be plagiarism I said "well that seems like something he can get past."

damage control is not the same as tacit approval. but at some point you have to make efforts to stop the hull from splitting any further.

do you see the difference?

austin - think about your case note for law review.

WT - you dont have any right to hurt people. get over yourself.