Football question

[Eielson]

Funny, my brain and calculator both indicate that 165-128 is, in fact, 37. I actually shortchanged Beck since his QB rating is actually 166.

Half this board explained to you the difference between QBR and passer rating, and somehow you still lack the intelligence to understand the difference.

 

[Eielson]

Texas nabs Coleman and Smothers in the span of an hour. Both among the highest rated at their positions.

Maybe if they had better culture, 4 of their top 5 skill position players wouldn't have entered the portal.

 

[Eielson]

To be fair, he said qb rating, not QBR

What do you think QBR stands for?

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Even then it’s still not 37 difference. Also just to reiterate it’s crazy how obvious how more accurate QBR is to compare players.

When evaluating pure passing I still prefer qb rating

I know I’m in the minority. But to me the top qbs have high qb ratings. It isn’t always the same with qbr

 

[SoonerBounce13]

What do you think QBR stands for?

They are clearly two different things.

Qb rating and qbr are not the same thing. You know this

At least you should with how much you like to talk down to people about qbr vs qb rating.

 

[Eielson]

They are clearly two different things.

Correct, QBR is very different than passer rating (or passer efficiency as it's called in college football).

Also correct that you're in the minority for using the outdated formula created in 1973 when we had limited technology to compute advanced stats.

- Passer rating values a 7 yard throw on 4th and 12 over a 6 yard throw on 4th and 5.
- Passer rating favors taking a 12 yard sack over scrambling out and throwing the ball away
- Passer rating favors a fumble over an incompletion
- Passer rating counts a pick-6 as equivalent to an interception thrown 40 yards downfield on 4th down
- Passer rating counts a game winning touchdown as the same as a 4th quarter touchdown while down 40.
- Passer rating counts a 0 yard and a 40 yard run as the same
- Passer rating doesn't account for the level of competition at all

So again, if you're using passer rating over QBR, you're tipping your hand that you don't have even the slightest understanding about how advanced stats work.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Correct, QBR is very different than passer rating (or passer efficiency as it's called in college football).

Also correct that you're in the minority for using the outdated formula created in 1973 when we had limited technology to compute advanced stats.

- Passer rating values a 7 yard throw on 4th and 12 over a 6 yard throw on 4th and 5.
- Passer rating favors taking a 12 yard sack over scrambling out and throwing the ball away
- Passer rating favors a fumble over an incompletion
- Passer rating counts a pick-6 as equivalent to an interception thrown 40 yards downfield on 4th down
- Passer rating counts a game winning touchdown as the same as a 4th quarter touchdown while down 40.
- Passer rating counts a 0 yard and a 40 yard run as the same
- Passer rating doesn't account for the level of competition at all

So again, if you're using passer rating over QBR, you're tipping your hand that you don't have even the slightest understanding about how advanced stats work.

lol rinse and repeat. I’ve heard it from you plenty of times

I know how advanced stats work. And I still prefer the old qb rating. IMO it is a better barometer for how good of a passer a qb is. Most of the time a high qb rating means a good qb. I’ve seen qbr be high for a terrible qb because over emphasizes something’s that skews the numbers.

I’m fine being in the minority. You take your fancy new stats. I’ll take the tried and true. I’d almost guarantee the qb rating has a higher percentage of pointing to success at the next level

 

[Eielson]

I’ve seen qbr be high for a terrible qb because over emphasizes something’s that skews the numbers.

Would love to hear more about this. Please give at least one example.

 

[BCSooners]

When evaluating pure passing I still prefer qb rating

I know I’m in the minority. But to me the top qbs have high qb ratings. It isn’t always the same with qbr

You’re in the minority bc your dumb.

 

[BCSooners]

Funny, my brain and calculator both indicate that 165-128 is, in fact, 37. I actually shortchanged Beck since his QB rating is actually 166.

Please site stats. Because I saw 159-129=30.

 

[WaymanFan]

You’re in the minority bc your dumb.

I don't mean to bust your chops, but the proper phrase is "You're in the minority because YOU'RE dumb". Sorry, I couldn't resist .

On topic, there are times that I prefer passer rating and other times QBR. It depends on how the game plays out, though QBR is definitely more enhanced and technically sound. QBR will reward a QB who throws a great deep ball and the WR scores a TD. Passer rating does not distinguish that from a screen pass that gets taken to the house. On the flip side, QBR will punish the QB for having a terrible offensive line that can't protect him since sacks and forced fumbles (even from the blind side) count against the QB.

At the end of the day, both are flawed because both punish the QB if he throws a perfect pass and the WR lets it bounce off his hands and into a defender.

 

[BCSooners]

I don't mean to bust your chops, but the proper phrase is "You're in the minority because YOU'RE dumb". Sorry, I couldn't resist .

On topic, there are times that I prefer passer rating and other times QBR. It depends on how the game plays out, though QBR is definitely more enhanced and technically sound. QBR will reward a QB who throws a great deep ball and the WR scores a TD. Passer rating does not distinguish that from a screen pass that gets taken to the house. On the flip side, QBR will punish the QB for having a terrible offensive line that can't protect him since sacks and forced fumbles (even from the blind side) count against the QB.

At the end of the day, both are flawed because both punish the QB if he throws a perfect pass and the WR lets it bounce off his hands and into a defender.

I would’ve done the same thing. I’m a stickler on that stuff, but after a few drinks I don’t proof read.

I like QBR because it takes into account QB run game, quality of opponent, what did you do when it mattered most.

 

[WaymanFan]

I like QBR because it takes into account QB run game, quality of opponent, what did you do when it mattered most.

Good points, but neither gage could prevent Jalen Hurts from having both a bad QBR and bad passer rating yesterday when his toxic receiver (AJ Brown) hung him out to dry.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

I would’ve done the same thing. I’m a stickler on that stuff, but after a few drinks I don’t proof read.

I like QBR because it takes into account QB run game, quality of opponent, what did you do when it mattered most.

and i prefer qb rating because when evaluating QB as throwers, I don't want to take the run game into consideration

 

[BCSooners]

Good points, but neither gage could prevent Jalen Hurts from having both a bad QBR and bad passer rating yesterday when his toxic receiver (AJ Brown) hung him out to dry.

Yeah that's one game though, and I'm a huge AJ Brown hater. But throughout the season QBR is much more accurate than QB rating as far as gauging who the better player is.

 

[Eielson]

On the flip side, QBR will punish the QB for having a terrible offensive line that can't protect him since sacks and forced fumbles (even from the blind side) count against the QB.

Both metrics will suffer with poor OL play. Even if not sacked, if you're under pressure, almost all metrics are going to be worse if given a large enough sample size. That's going to be true of all team sports, as it's simply not possible to isolate outside of individual sports or 1 on 1 situations like batting in baseball, which even then has some limitations (i.e. they pitch differently depending on the success of those in front of or behind you in the batting order). You'd be hard-pressed to find many better individual metrics than QBR and PER (in basketball).

While advanced metrics aren't perfect, Bounce and Wichita's "eye test" might be the least credible "metric" introduced here. Betting against every Wichita opinion would have yielded better results this year than betting with. Fighting validated data with amateur opinion is not a winning battle.

At the end of the day, both are flawed because both punish the QB if he throws a perfect pass and the WR lets it bounce off his hands and into a defender.

I do believe QBR actually accounts for drops. At least to a certain extent. Likely does not make up for the yardage if they hadn't dropped.

 

[BCSooners]

and i prefer qb rating because when evaluating QB as throwers, I don't want to take the run game into consideration

So you like the one that shows Jared Goff is better than Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, & Lamar Jackson. Got it.

It's even more absurd in college because quarterbacks run even more than the NFL.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

So you like the one that shows Jared Goff is better than Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, & Lamar Jackson. Got it.

It's even more absurd in college because quarterbacks run even more than the NFL.

As you quoted, I said when evaluating who the better thrower is.
When I'm comparing QBs, how good they throw the ball is #1. Because Ideally, you don't need you QB to be your main runner.

In the same vein, if I am comparing running backs, I will look at their running statistics first to see who the better runner is.
Then you can factor in how much of a threat they are in the passing game. First priority is running. Second is versatility in the passing game.

in a QB, how well they pass the ball is the most important. Then you look at their impact on the running game.
I don't think you will find many success stories with a QB with a low qb rating and a high qbr. i.e. a low qb rating but a good runner

 

[BCSooners]

As you quoted, I said when evaluating who the better thrower is.
When I'm comparing QBs, how good they throw the ball is #1. Because Ideally, you don't need you QB to be your main runner.

In the same vein, if I am comparing running backs, I will look at their running statistics first to see who the better runner is.
Then you can factor in how much of a threat they are in the passing game. First priority is running. Second is versatility in the passing game.

in a QB, how well they pass the ball is the most important. Then you look at their impact on the running game.
I don't think you will find many success stories with a QB with a low qb rating and a high qbr. i.e. a low qb rating but a good runner

I fell like Jalen Hurts winning the super bowl is a success story.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

I fell like Jalen Hurts winning the super bowl is a success story.

Last year Hurts was 10th in QBR and 8th in qb rating