Football question

SoonerDutch said:
Mateer was putting up a mid 70ish QBR before the Auburn game. That’s top 25ish level production. That’s “bad?”

Guy is not Baker/Kyler and I know you think OU could magically find more production there but coaches “aren’t even considering that angle.” That’s good enough to get where this team’s goals are IMO.
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Advanced stats like QBR are beyond Wichita's comprehension, but Mateer was literally the Heisman frontrunner at the time of injury. I expressed my skepticism at the time, and agree that he is not Heisman-level, but saying the Heisman frontrunner was bad is an indefensible take.

I completely understand why some here wanted to move on from Mateer, but pretending the injury to his throwing hand didn't affect his throwing is....how are we even having this conversation still?
 
WichitaSooner said:
You cite a stat that includes rushing in its formula. I said he was bad throwing. In his two games against FBS competition before the injury, he completed 60 percent of his passes and had as many picks as TDs. Those numbers are both bad in this era.
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You’re citing completion stats which aren’t 100% on Mateer and TD/INT ratios from two games where he got OU into scoring position on pass plays on two possessions against UM where he then scored rushing. If Burks or Santenga turn those into TDs & gives him a 4/2 ratio, does that change your argument lol?

His QB rating was middle of the pack for those two games. I’d have to have you clarify what “bad” means? Although you yourself hedge with mediocre so maybe that’s what you’re saying.

Guy is not elite sure, but bad? Arnold was/is bad. Mateer is passable. Will just have to agree to disagree.
 
Eielson said:
Advanced stats like QBR are beyond Wichita's comprehension, but Mateer was literally the Heisman frontrunner at the time of injury. I expressed my skepticism at the time, and agree that he is not Heisman-level, but saying the Heisman frontrunner was bad is an indefensible take.

I completely understand why some here wanted to move on from Mateer, but pretending the injury to his throwing hand didn't affect his throwing is....how are we even having this conversation still?
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Yeah agree, should just stop engaging. Just trying to understand what he’s saying.

The guy loves to be a martyr lol.
 
SoonerDutch said:
You’re citing completion stats which aren’t 100% on Mateer and TD/INT ratios from two games where he got OU into scoring position on pass plays on two possessions against UM where he then scored rushing. If Burks or Santenga turn those into TDs & gives him a 4/2 ratio, does that change your argument lol?

His QB rating was middle of the pack for those two games. I’d have to have you clarify what “bad” means? Although you yourself hedge with mediocre so maybe that’s what you’re saying.

Guy is not elite sure, but bad? Arnold was/is bad. Mateer is passable. Will just have to agree to disagree.
Click to expand...
Well the good news is, we will be able to see this season how accurate and smart he is in the passing game after an offseason to work on his mechanics and recover from his broken hand/arm/body. For me, the bar isn't Jackson Arnold. Just because someone is better than Arnold, doesn't mean he doesn't leave a ton to be desired from a throwing standpoint.
 
SoonerDutch said:
You’re citing completion stats which aren’t 100% on Mateer and TD/INT ratios from two games where he got OU into scoring position on pass plays on two possessions against UM where he then scored rushing. If Burks or Santenga turn those into TDs & gives him a 4/2 ratio, does that change your argument lol?

His QB rating was middle of the pack for those two games. I’d have to have you clarify what “bad” means? Although you yourself hedge with mediocre so maybe that’s what you’re saying.

Guy is not elite sure, but bad? Arnold was/is bad. Mateer is passable. Will just have to agree to disagree.
Click to expand...

I've yet to see any of the QBR skeptics actually be able to explain what it's calculating. It's not perfect, but once somebody takes 5 minutes to understand what it's calculating, they accept it is a valid metric.
 
WichitaSooner said:
Well the good news is, we will be able to see this season how accurate and smart he is in the passing game after an offseason to work on his mechanics and recover from his broken hand/arm/body. For me, the bar isn't Jackson Arnold. Just because someone is better than Arnold, doesn't mean he doesn't leave a ton to be desired from a throwing standpoint.
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Absolutely, hoping for a top 30 QBR season.

Would love to hear a statistical threshold that you’re hoping to see so we can try to resolve this discussion later this year!
 
Eielson said:
I completely understand why some here wanted to move on from Mateer, but pretending the injury to his throwing hand didn't affect his throwing is....how are we even having this conversation still?
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Obviously, there was a negative impact, but I am going to play Devil's Advocate here. My worry with Mateer was that he was struggling with accuracy beyond 15 yards both before and after his injury. That is something I am worried about heading into this coming season. Throwing some nice deep balls against Michigan will put a lot of us at ease.
 
SoonerDutch said:
Mateer was putting up a mid 70ish QBR before the Auburn game. That’s top 25ish level production. That’s “bad?”

Guy is not Baker/Kyler and I know you think OU could magically find more production there but coaches “aren’t even considering that angle.” That’s good enough to get where this team’s goals are IMO.
Click to expand...
WS specifically mentioned throwing. Don't look at QBR for strictly throwing. I know we have gone back and forth on this numerous times. But look at the actual numbers before the surgery. They weren't great by any means or even good for OU standards
 
SoonerBounce13 said:
WS specifically mentioned throwing. Don't look at QBR for strictly throwing. I know we have gone back and forth on this numerous times. But look at the actual numbers before the surgery. They weren't great by any means or even good for OU standards
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Again, I think there’s issues with using an unadjusted completion % and/or TD/INT ratios. His passer rating was middle of the pack nationally before the surgery.

So not “good for OU standards?” Sure, but “good for OU standards” is a pretty high bar. I’m not saying he’s in the top tier of OU QBs by any means and I don’t think Mateer is an elite thrower but think posters are getting way too hung up on how he looked post surgery and especially against UT IMO (which I get, OU’s performance against UT under Brent has been wildly disappointing). People also (rightly) think he’s short and has mechanic issues and then project out a failed eye test.
 
For the "look at the numbers folks:"

In Mateer's 3 games prior to injury as well as the CFP game with a month to fully recover his QBRs were as follows:

76.9, 75.2, 66.3, 72.3

To put that in other terms, he had a QBR of 72.3 or higher in 3 of 4 games when healthy.

He had a QBR of 72.3 or higher in 1/8 games between.

These numbers are about as clear as it gets. Which again...why do we need numbers to clarify that a broken throwing hand affects a QB?
 
Eielson said:
For the "look at the numbers folks:"

In Mateer's 3 games prior to injury as well as the CFP game with a month to fully recover his QBRs were as follows:

76.9, 75.2, 66.3, 72.3

To put that in other terms, he had a QBR of 72.3 or higher in 3 of 4 games when healthy.

He had a QBR of 72.3 or higher in 1/8 games between.

These numbers are about as clear as it gets. Which again...why do we need numbers to clarify that a broken throwing hand affects a QB?
Click to expand...

Another number:

We were 10-1 last year when our QBR was 49.2 or higher.

In other words, we have a clear correlation with QBR and team success. And a clear correlation between QBR pre and post-injury. I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make Bounce and Wichita drink.
 
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Eielson said:
So you're saying it was his 2.9 yards per carry that dramatically affected his QBR and put him at the top of the Heisman race?
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It was making winning plays and rushing for 74 yards and 2 TDs vs Michigan

All I'm saying is his throwing stats, even before injury, left a lot to be desired. He wasn't in the heisman race because of his throwing stats. It was because we beat 2 top 25 teams at the time
 
Eielson said:
For the "look at the numbers folks:"

In Mateer's 3 games prior to injury as well as the CFP game with a month to fully recover his QBRs were as follows:

76.9, 75.2, 66.3, 72.3

To put that in other terms, he had a QBR of 72.3 or higher in 3 of 4 games when healthy.

He had a QBR of 72.3 or higher in 1/8 games between.

These numbers are about as clear as it gets. Which again...why do we need numbers to clarify that a broken throwing hand affects a QB?
Click to expand...
sigh...again, we were strictly talking about his throwing numbers...since again, it is his throwing that was effected by his injury.
I think only one or two people think his injury didn't play a role in performance.
What I'm saying, is that his throwing wasn't great before the injury either.
 
Eielson said:
Another number:

We were 10-1 last year when our QBR was 49.2 or higher.

In other words, we have a clear correlation with QBR and team success. And a clear correlation between QBR pre and post-injury. I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make Bounce and Wichita drink.
Click to expand...
yall have trouble reading, my goodness.
I'm not arguing anything about QBR.
 
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