Future of Moser

[SoonerDutch]

How is that bold part Joe's fault? Oklahoma money doesn't look like Texas money. OU culture doesn't look like Texas culture. Again, our football team landed our top recruiting class on paper in over two decades coming off one of our worst seasons in two decades and with crappy NIL. I know OU basketball isn't OU football, but some of you are WAY over exaggerating how much NIL is hurting OU sports teams. It’s an excuse, and it's not a good one.

I guess when I see bball coaches claim that NIL is clearly the most important tool in modern recruiting/transfer portal I tend to put stock into that, especially when thinking about a program like OU that has had a chronic lack of financial support from boosters for years due to the football goliath.

Could coaches in articles like that be complaining or defending their coaching incompetence by blaiming $$? I suppose that’s a possibility, but personally see it making a lot of sense especially when others post isolated data points like “OU football had a historically good recruiting class two years ago.” I don’t see a lot of press arguing that NIL’s impact is overblown, although would be happy to reconsider if you/others have specific sources available.

The OU collectives have largely been failures compared to their direct peers, the donor drive is emblematic of that failure. With their capacity for organization/market research, it’s embarrassing to not hit a stated target regardless of “Texas having a larger fanbase than OU.”

I view Castilogne as the CEO for OU’s AD. The collectives are not his direct responsibility but it’s pretty clear to me that having competent NIL implementation/coordination should be a key (I’d argue the key right now) aspect for a major college athletic department. Having cutting edge NIL implementation would be a differentiator. It’s not his job to directly implement this but I’m continually surprised by OU’s ****-ups in building a cohesive NIL strategy. It doesn’t seem like a priority to be quite honest.

Also to be clear since I feel it’s necessary to caveat this when engaging with several posters including yourself, I am not defending Moser’s record the last few seasons. Nor am I saying that Castilogne has not had a good run historically, just that it seems he is not proactive on the NIL front and that the NIL front appears to be the most impactful aspect of roster management in today’s MBB.

 

[Seymore Cox]

Moser ran Shep off. I heard Shep saved OU a lot of money on the basketball budget too.

How are you not sure it’s true? He left in the middle of the year…. Shep’s job was organizing the logistics, which he. Was good at and golfing most of the time. Porter took the easy part of his job away and made it harder. For instance, Shep scheduled day of game travel to save money. Moser took that away.

OU didn’t help him get the job there? And even if you think that’s true, wouldn’t that mean Moser ran him off if OU is doing that?

Moser is a disaster. Why always making excuses for him?

 

[Seymore Cox]

Joe c is likely the best AD in America. Not one to procrastinate

Joe C HAS been a good athletic director. It’s a what have you done for me lately job now. What he has done lately is hire a bad coach, and instead of saying “my bad” and fix this, he’s going to give him another year. That means another year of a bad coach with no direction.

 

[Boom Soon]

Joe C HAS been a good athletic director. It’s a what have you done for me lately job now. What he has done lately is hire a bad coach, and instead of saying “my bad” and fix this, he’s going to give him another year. That means another year of a bad coach with no direction.

Yeah it's not gonna look good on Joe C when OU misses the tournament four years in a row. Then another coach will come in for an actual rebuild. Hopefully he'll get that one right

 

[allday92]

How are you not sure it’s true? He left in the middle of the year…. Shep’s job was organizing the logistics, which he. Was good at and golfing most of the time. Porter took the easy part of his job away and made it harder. For instance, Shep scheduled day of game travel to save money. Moser took that away.

OU didn’t help him get the job there? And even if you think that’s true, wouldn’t that mean Moser ran him off if OU is doing that?

Moser is a disaster. Why always making excuses for him?

Moser taking away same day travel is a good thing. It's the University of Oklahoma, we can't be that cheap. That's not doing us any favors in recruiting. Shep was also saving that money for what? Those dollars aren't building new facilities, can't be used for NIL. If all that is true, then Shep wasn't the right man for the job either.

The basketball program needs a vision, someone to do all the stuff Thad Turnipseed did for Brent before he left. We don't need a guy that is crafting a perfect schedule so we get in the tournament by a game or two, we need a guy with a plan to build a program expected to make the second weekend in the tournament.

 

[WTSooner]

I guess when I see bball coaches claim that NIL is clearly the most important tool in modern recruiting/transfer portal I tend to put stock into that, especially when thinking about a program like OU that has had a chronic lack of financial support from boosters for years due to the football goliath.

Could coaches in articles like that be complaining or defending their coaching incompetence by blaiming $$? I suppose that’s a possibility, but personally see it making a lot of sense especially when others post isolated data points like “OU football had a historically good recruiting class two years ago.” I don’t see a lot of press arguing that NIL’s impact is overblown, although would be happy to reconsider if you/others have specific sources available.

The OU collectives have largely been failures compared to their direct peers, the donor drive is emblematic of that failure. With their capacity for organization/market research, it’s embarrassing to not hit a stated target regardless of “Texas having a larger fanbase than OU.”

I view Castilogne as the CEO for OU’s AD. The collectives are not his direct responsibility but it’s pretty clear to me that having competent NIL implementation/coordination should be a key (I’d argue the key right now) aspect for a major college athletic department. Having cutting edge NIL implementation would be a differentiator. It’s not his job to directly implement this but I’m continually surprised by OU’s ****-ups in building a cohesive NIL strategy. It doesn’t seem like a priority to be quite honest.

Also to be clear since I feel it’s necessary to caveat this when engaging with several posters including yourself, I am not defending Moser’s record the last few seasons. Nor am I saying that Castilogne has not had a good run historically, just that it seems he is not proactive on the NIL front and that the NIL front appears to be the most impactful aspect of roster management in today’s MBB.

What kind of NIL do the following schools have for basketball:

Mississippi State
BYU
Creighton
South Carolina
Nevada
Gonzaga
Drake
Washington State
Northwestern
FAU
SDS
Clemson
Auburn
Utah State
TCU

Some on this list hired new coaches and IMMEDIATELY saw significantly improved play on the court. That is what Moser was supposed to be able to do at OU, but the truth of the matter is, he is a fraud when it comes to actual coaching (game coaching and player development).

There are probably 25+ coaches that OU could reasonably hire that would have had this team comfortably in the Tournament. I honestly believe that.

So take your NIL crap and get lost. I'm not looking to buy a championship. I'm looking to put a well coached, top 25-30 type team on the court. We don't need endless NIL to do that. At least, we shouldn't.

 

[WichitaSooner]

What kind of NIL do the following schools have for basketball:

Mississippi State
BYU
Creighton
South Carolina
Nevada
Gonzaga
Drake
Washington State
Northwestern
FAU
SDS
Clemson
Auburn
Utah State
TCU

Some on this list hired new coaches and IMMEDIATELY saw significantly improved play on the court. That is what Moser was supposed to be able to do at OU, but the truth of the matter is, he is a fraud when it comes to actual coaching (game coaching and player development).

There are probably 25+ coaches that OU could reasonably hire that would have had this team comfortably in the Tournament. I honestly believe that.

So take your NIL crap and get lost. I'm not looking to buy a championship. I'm looking to put a well coached, top 25-30 type team on the court. We don't need endless NIL to do that. At least, we shouldn't.

I read an article yesterday listing 10 up and coming coaches to watch in the tournament. It made me sad to realize that we are sticking with a guy who had been coaching for over 20 years, has only had two notable seasons, has been a complete failure at OU, and is likely to lose several key players this offseason. All so we can be in the same position next year after another lost season. I wish there was a gambling app that was already taking bets on whether teams will make the tourney next year. Would be nice to make some free money by betting against Moser.

 

[CoachTalk]

How are you not sure it’s true? He left in the middle of the year…. Shep’s job was organizing the logistics, which he. Was good at and golfing most of the time. Porter took the easy part of his job away and made it harder. For instance, Shep scheduled day of game travel to save money. Moser took that away.

OU didn’t help him get the job there? And even if you think that’s true, wouldn’t that mean Moser ran him off if OU is doing that?

Moser is a disaster. Why always making excuses for him?

We are talking moser. We are talking shep. Woah! Same day travel is stupid. It’s old way of thinking.

He wasn’t ran off: Ou did help him get that job. Left mid year bc that’s when the new job was open. They paid him till he found a good job.

keep making stuff up to fit your narrative.

 

[WichitaSooner]

We are talking moser. We are talking shep. Woah! Same day travel is stupid. It’s old way of thinking.

He wasn’t ran off: Ou did help him get that job. Left mid year bc that’s when the new job was open. They paid him till he found a good job.

keep making stuff up to fit your narrative.

I notice you still haven’t answered my question. You were laughing at me a few weeks ago for doubting the team before the season and asked whether I would acknowledge that they were exceeding expectations. Now that the season has ended with a thud, what’s your take? Are you pumped that we missed the tourney three straight years since the Carter administration? That we gagged down the stretch? That our pace reverted to a crawl in league play? That we have zero momentum and saw no improvement from the returning players? I’ve yet to see you acknowledge any flaws with Moser the great.

 

[inoref]

There be many fans buy into what Moser had to say in his press conference or what they thought he said....Sounded like a bunch of BS to me

 

[TINY]

What kind of NIL do the following schools have for basketball:

Mississippi State
BYU
Creighton
South Carolina
Nevada
Gonzaga
Drake
Washington State
Northwestern
FAU
SDS
Clemson
Auburn
Utah State
TCU

Some on this list hired new coaches and IMMEDIATELY saw significantly improved play on the court. That is what Moser was supposed to be able to do at OU, but the truth of the matter is, he is a fraud when it comes to actual coaching (game coaching and player development).

There are probably 25+ coaches that OU could reasonably hire that would have had this team comfortably in the Tournament. I honestly believe that.

So take your NIL crap and get lost. I'm not looking to buy a championship. I'm looking to put a well coached, top 25-30 type team on the court. We don't need endless NIL to do that. At least, we shouldn't.

You are living in the past.

 

[SoonerDutch]

What kind of NIL do the following schools have for basketball:

Mississippi State
BYU
Creighton
South Carolina
Nevada
Gonzaga
Drake
Washington State
Northwestern
FAU
SDS
Clemson
Auburn
Utah State
TCU

Some on this list hired new coaches and IMMEDIATELY saw significantly improved play on the court. That is what Moser was supposed to be able to do at OU, but the truth of the matter is, he is a fraud when it comes to actual coaching (game coaching and player development).

There are probably 25+ coaches that OU could reasonably hire that would have had this team comfortably in the Tournament. I honestly believe that.

So take your NIL crap and get lost. I'm not looking to buy a championship. I'm looking to put a well coached, top 25-30 type team on the court. We don't need endless NIL to do that. At least, we shouldn't.

A list of several schools (some with better NIL platforms than OU, especially OU BBall) that made the tournament. Ok, will just move on and agree to disagree.

Like I said, not trying to defend Moser. A better coach would have gotten this roster into the tournament. IMO a better coach would also want to coach at a school taking NIL seriously.

 

[WTSooner]

A list of several schools (some with better NIL platforms than OU, especially OU BBall) that made the tournament. Ok, will just move on and agree to disagree.

Like I said, not trying to defend Moser. A better coach would have gotten this roster into the tournament. IMO a better coach would also want to coach at a school taking NIL seriously.

You didn't address my question.

I listed a bunch of schools that made the tournament and I'm guessing they aren't spending a bunch on NIL for basketball.

The problem is, some of you want to have the perfect situation in place NIL-wise to complete with Kansas, or Kentucky, or whomever. Get that thought out of your mind. That isn't where our program is. What is a minimum level of success we should be happy with right now? I'd say consistently getting into the Dance comfortably should be our goal. We 100% (FACT, not opinion) don't need significantly better NIL to do that.

Just tired of that being the excuse. If our football program isn't using that as a crutch, our basketball program sure as heck shouldn't be. Some of you all have just latched onto that as a talking point and you refuse to let go.

 

[SoonerDutch]

You didn't address my question.

I listed a bunch of schools that made the tournament and I'm guessing they aren't spending a bunch on NIL for basketball.

The problem is, some of you want to have the perfect situation in place NIL-wise to complete with Kansas, or Kentucky, or whomever. Get that thought out of your mind. That isn't where our program is. What is a minimum level of success we should be happy with right now? I'd say consistently getting into the Dance comfortably should be our goal. We 100% (FACT, not opinion) don't need significantly better NIL to do that.

Just tired of that being the excuse. If our football program isn't using that as a crutch, our basketball program sure as heck shouldn't be. Some of you all have just latched onto that as a talking point and you refuse to let go.

Your question was why was the NIL collective failure Castilogne’s fault? I mentioned that specifically? You can reread my original post, I’m not going to repost that.

Going to have to agree to disagree on the NIL competitiveness front, simply listing names (several of whom have better NIL programs in basketball) does nothing IMO especially when half those teams are “not making the dance comfortably consistently” in your own words.

 

[WTSooner]

Your question was why was the NIL collective failure Castilogne’s fault? I mentioned that specifically? You can reread my original post, I’m not going to repost that.

Going to have to agree to disagree on the NIL competitiveness front, simply listing names (several of whom have better NIL programs in basketball) does nothing IMO especially when half those teams are “not making the dance comfortably consistently” in your own words.

My question is why are a bunch of other schools that probably don't have better (and in many cases probably have worse) NIL set-ups able to field consistently good basketball teams?

You all are wanting to fix the hard stuff first, instead of fixing the easy stuff. We have enough talent (generally) to accomplish our minimum goals. What we don't have is a coach that can get enough out of that talent. I'm not sure increasing the talent level by a few notches is going to change that. Start with the easy problems first. We need a better coach. I'm not willing to entertain NIL until we fix the easy stuff. Joe C can't make OU fans give/donate. You don't think they've tried? Have YOU given? I'm guessing there are a lot of fans complaining about NIL that haven't given a penny.

 

[Boom Soon]

My question is why are a bunch of other schools that probably don't have better (and in many cases probably have worse) NIL set-ups able to field consistently good basketball teams?

You all are wanting to fix the hard stuff first, instead of fixing the easy stuff. We have enough talent (generally) to accomplish our minimum goals. What we don't have is a coach that can get enough out of that talent. I'm not sure increasing the talent level by a few notches is going to change that. Start with the easy problems first. We need a better coach. I'm not willing to entertain NIL until we fix the easy stuff. Joe C can't make OU fans give/donate. You don't think they've tried? Have YOU given? I'm guessing there are a lot of fans complaining about NIL that haven't given a penny.

This. In the grand scheme of the program you gotta start with a better coach. Now, that doesn’t mean OU can’t have NIL. OU needs SOME money to give to players. But OU does not need to start throwing large amounts of money at the best players to at least make the tournament.

 

[SoonerDutch]

My question is why are a bunch of other schools that probably don't have better (and in many cases probably have worse) NIL set-ups able to field consistently good basketball teams?

You all are wanting to fix the hard stuff first, instead of fixing the easy stuff. We have enough talent (generally) to accomplish our minimum goals. What we don't have is a coach that can get enough out of that talent. I'm not sure increasing the talent level by a few notches is going to change that. Start with the easy problems first. We need a better coach. I'm not willing to entertain NIL until we fix the easy stuff. Joe C can't make OU fans give/donate. You don't think they've tried? Have YOU given? I'm guessing there are a lot of fans complaining about NIL that haven't given a penny.

Despite my better judgement given the lack of transparency and not that it’s a game changer by any means but I’m a collective member, yes lol. Castiliogne is an AD so I’d actually push back and say a big component of his job is encouraging OU boosters/donors to give to the program.

Look this isn’t going anywhere and that’s fine, just agree to disagree. I can understand your thought process (Moser is uniquely bad, replace him and get a better coach and all is fixed) but again, I’d hope you’d understand why others are less sold that a coaching change is going to turn OU into a consistent top 25 team and don’t find lists of schools compelling evidence to the contrary.

Enjoy the tournament.

 

[Hecubus]

This. In the grand scheme of the program you gotta start with a better coach. Now, that doesn’t mean OU can’t have NIL. OU needs SOME money to give to players. But OU does not need to start throwing large amounts of money at the best players to at least make the tournament.

Well, true. The argument we need do *anything* different to make the tournament is moot as we were literally the first one out. Thats with historic bid stealing and all P5 noncon wins being nerfed by unexpectedly poor seasons from all of those teams. If your measure is squeezing into the tourney is Ok.

The SEC is an objectively worse conference top to bottom than Big12 this year. We wouldn’t be any better, but we would have won more games. And a 24-8 P5 team looks a lot better than 20-12 to subjective standards.

 

[WTSooner]

Well, true. The argument we need do *anything* different to make the tournament is moot as we were literally the first one out. Thats with historic bid stealing and all P5 noncon wins being nerfed by unexpectedly poor seasons from all of those teams. If your measure is squeezing into the tourney is Ok.

The SEC is an objectively worse conference top to bottom than Big12 this year. We wouldn’t be any better, but we would have won more games. And a 24-8 P5 team looks a lot better than 20-12 to subjective standards.

The goal should be to not be a bubble-type team. I'm not asking for 1, 2, or 3 seeds. But surely we can consistently get to the 5-9 seed area. So in that capacity, yes, we still have some work to do.

Getting there 100% by playing an easier schedule doesn't give me the warm fuzzies.

Also don't think we'll lose 4 fewer games in the SEC, all things even. SEC sent as many teams to the Dance as the Big 12 did.

 

[allday92]

What kind of NIL do the following schools have for basketball:

Mississippi State
BYU
Creighton
South Carolina
Nevada
Gonzaga
Drake
Washington State
Northwestern
FAU
SDS
Clemson
Auburn
Utah State
TCU

Taking a stab at this based on the numbers posted in the Trilly discord:

Creighton - they're probably top 5-10 in the country. Have you heard of Warren Buffett?
Gonzaga
Auburn
-------------
South Carolina - they signed a top 5 recruit/5 star kid just a year ago
Mississippi State
Clemson
TCU
FAU - their team got paid after the final four run.
Northwestern
SDSU - their overall basketball NIL is $1.5M to $2M per year
--------
*Oklahoma*
Washington State

No one truly knows, and even the insiders have rough estimates, but the insiders do all share that Oklahoma is near the bottom of the Big 12.