Has OU peaked under Kruger?

[Big Old Booger]

Again, I don't think your argument translates. This is a different situation completely for Kruger. This program is superior to every program Coach has been in almost every way. His recruiting is improving and the talent level across the roster has continued to improve almost every cycle. Besides what ut is doing (almost completely unrelated) and what Coach did at inferior basketball programs in the past, what evidence directly involving OU basketball do you see foretelling the kind of drop off you are predicting (at worst a .500 record, possibly no more 20 win seasons which would also mean rare NCAA tourney trips). You make it sound like OU basketball is a plane with an engine out. I see staying power. I see consistent top 2,3,4 finishes and consistent contention in the Big 12. I see a long streak of NCAA trips. I see a multiple Sweet 16s, plus a possible Final 4 run in 17-18, a team I think could be superior to this past year's team if we add Trae Young.

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The only exception is Illinois and I think he may have stayed there a long time if it weren't for the NBA offer, which would be stupid to turn down. Although, I don't think he would have stayed at Illinois for the remainder of his career due to other factors (climate and recruiting environment with the inner city kids). Some may say "climate?, that's stupid" but if you look at all of his stops, except KSU, they are all warm weather climates -- Florida, Atlanta, UNLV and OU.

I will add, during the final 4, I saw an interview with his wife about how they went from building a retirement home in UNLV to taking the OU offer. She mentioned the chance to go to OU was a great opportunity because it gave Lon a chance to get back to the Final 4 unlike UNLV. I also had heard that week that UNLV didn't have the money to match or come close to OU's offer, so when Joe kept offering it was too good of an offer combined with the possibilities for quick success for LK to turn down.

 

[Big Old Booger]

To the OP...I fail to see how anyone can judge if the program has peaked or not based on a final 4. Like Traveler mentioned, if he can win a Big 12 title or 2 or 3 that would mean the program has not peaked with this final 4 appearance. Winning at KU not just once but a few times would be a big accomplishment too. IMO, judging if a program has peaked based on one game or one season is not accurate just like saying previous coaches were more successful in the tourney because "they beat the teams they were supposed to beat". That entire argument is ludicrous because teams are mis-seeded all the time -- multiple times every year. Also, teams peak sooner while some teams peak later. I think you also have to look at opponents like NDSU who beat us a few years ago when they had 5 senior starters. I think they were the better team but because we were from a power 5 we had a higher seed and thus "did not play up to seed".

So, to me the whole question is stupid -- no offense OP.

 

[Soonerinkc]

my 2 cents...

I was in Manhattan when Kruger was coaching there...he was the KING, like Switzer at OU. Played at ksu was from a small Ks town..he WAS K-State. His leaving was rumored for other reasons.

Ksu at the time was very good in basketball...that WAS their sport. I disagree that ksu wasn't "the level of OU" at his time.

Now, why he bounced so much..who knows.

He's had a great run at OU, like another said, I'd like to see a Big 12 REGULAR season trophy...I hate the hawks..or at least a tourney trophy. I loved the fact OU had the longest post season streak in the Big 8/12...even more than ku...until jc showed up.

I think he'll keep going and do well. Another final 4? hell, OU has only 5 in it's whole history...odds are no, but it'd be nice.

 

[WaymanFan]

Ksu at the time was very good in basketball...that WAS their sport. I disagree that ksu wasn't "the level of OU" at his time.

But they weren't at OU's level. The one year he got KSU deep in the Tournament, OU played for the title. Two other years, OU was in the Sweet 16, and the final year, OU was the #1 overall seed heading into the Tournament. During the second half of the 1980s, there were about 10 programs at OU's level - Kansas, Duke, NC, UNLV, Indiana, Louisville, Michigan, Arizona, Georgetown and Syracuse...that's it. Tacking on a few years prior to Lon, we were a top 10 program from 1983 - 1990. KSU wasn't close to that during Lon's 4 year tenure.

 

[Big Old Booger]

But they weren't at OU's level. The one year he got KSU deep in the Tournament, OU played for the title. Two other years, OU was in the Sweet 16, and the final year, OU was the #1 overall seed heading into the Tournament. During the second half of the 1980s, there were about 10 programs at OU's level - Kansas, Duke, NC, UNLV, Indiana, Louisville, Michigan, Arizona, Georgetown and Syracuse...that's it. Tacking on a few years prior to Lon, we were a top 10 program from 1983 - 1990. KSU wasn't close to that during Lon's 4 year tenure.

Jack Hartman had KSU rolling until Tubbs got it rolling in Norman and then OU passed KSU in the Big 8. I think that led to Hartman retiring because he hated losing to Tubbs so KSU hired Kruger. His teams beat OU about half the time before he left Manhattan. So, OU was a better program when Kruger was in Manhattan but not by that much.

 

[skyvue]

KSU hired Kruger. His teams beat OU about half the time before he left Manhattan. So, OU was a better program when Kruger was in Manhattan but not by that much.

If head-to-head results were all that mattered, KSU would be considered a better program than OU right now. We are currently 4-6 against them under Kruger.

During Kruger's tenure in Manhattan, OU won two conference titles and finished second the other two years. We went 24-10, 35-4, 30-6 and 27-5. In the NCAA tourney, OU lost once in the second round, twice in the Sweet Sixteen, and once in the championship game.

KSU finished 4th twice, third once and second once, going 20-11, 25-9, 19-11 and 17-15. They had two first-round losses, one second-round loss and one Elite Eight loss.

So no, KSU wasn't nearly as good a program when Kruger was there.

 

[Big Old Booger]

If head-to-head results were all that mattered, KSU would be considered a better program than OU right now. We are currently 4-6 against them under Kruger.

During Kruger's tenure in Manhattan, OU won two conference titles and finished second the other two years. We went 24-10, 35-4, 30-6 and 27-5. In the NCAA tourney, OU lost once in the second round, twice in the Sweet Sixteen, and once in the championship game.

KSU finished 4th twice, third once and second once, going 20-11, 25-9, 19-11 and 17-15. They had two first-round losses, one second-round loss and one Elite Eight loss.

So no, KSU wasn't nearly as good a program when Kruger was there.

Both had 4 NCAA tourney appearances and OU had the final 4 but KSU had the elite 8 and both lost to KU that year. So, like I said, we had the better program but it's not like they were Colorado.

In those days, the best programs were KU, OU, Mizzou, KSU and ISU. The other 3 (OSU, Nebraska and CU) were nobodies. Of the 5 I mentioned, KU was the best and ISU was the 5th best. OU was probably 2 though one could make the case for Mizzou except they didn't make it to a final 4 (never have).

 

[skyvue]

Both had 4 NCAA tourney appearances and OU had the final 4 but KSU had the elite 8 and both lost to KU that year. So, like I said, we had the better program but it's not like they were Colorado.

You're right that they weren't bottom of the barrel, but their best record over those five years was just a tick better than our worst, and our conference rankings were much better than theirs. It's really not that close.

 

[chuckb]

This is not far off from where I am. The OP and another poster or 2 seem to think we've, in essence, 'shot our wad' and things are now destined to fall apart despite no real evidence to back them up. I'm not predicting Final 4s but I will predict multiple teams capable of making such runs...


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I agree. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that this year's team goes to the Sweet 16 and then we go to 5 Elite 8's in a row. Will that mean that OU "peaked" in 2016 and is on the downward sign of the hill? I would say not. Teams that consistently make it to the Elite 8 would be top-notch programs and while it would be disappointing not to make a Final 4, I think most would argue that the program is in better shape than it is today.

There's a lot to feel good about if you support OU basketball.

 

[Sooner24]

Just curious for your thoughts. Seeing Texas light it up recruiting-wise scares me a bit. Kruger can't out-recruit Smart (he may try, but will fail). I love Kruger and I love where OU is at. But is this as high as OU can go with a coach like Kruger?

I'm thinking you've peaked as a poster.

 

[scrybe]

I'm thinking you've peaked as a poster.

My sentiments, exactly!!!

 

[Eielson]

Three straight days of rain could be called a pattern, too, but there's a strong possibility the fourth day will be sunny.

It's raining, sir.

 

[Eielson]

It sure doesn't feel like it, but if history repeats itself, yes. Lon tends to rebuild quickly, and then fade just about as quickly. Lon peaked in year 2 at KSU, year 3 at UNLV, and year 4 at Florida. Just looking at the numbers and removing my personal bias, it's hard to predict that year 5 isn't his peak at OU.

Again, I hope I'm wrong. It's just hard to come to any other conclusion looking strictly at Lon's career by the numbers. However, he has bucked a few trends here at OU. Despite all his noted improvement stories, he's never improved 5 straight years, and this last year was probably his most successful. Additionally, he's had more of a steadiness these last two stops (UNLV, OU), so it's possible.

Funny to see how much controversy this post stirred up 3 years ago. The OG Lon Hater right here.

 

[MsProudSooner]

I'm thinking you've peaked as a poster.

You read my mind!

 

[61sooner]

He got OU to a Final 4 so I can't imagine he can top that in his remaining years at OU.
Would be special to win the Big 12 season or tournament to cap his career.
That's always an outside possibility.

 

[CoachTalk]

He got OU to a Final 4 so I can't imagine he can top that in his remaining years at OU.
Would be special to win the Big 12 season or tournament to cap his career.
That's always an outside possibility.

He can make back in 2021.

 

[uberjamb]

Tech just got to the final with two and three star guys. Sometimes things just work. Obviously coaching has something to do with that. We won’t know when OU peaked under Kruger until he retires.

 

[sheepdogs1]

Tech just got to the final with two and three star guys. Sometimes things just work. Obviously coaching has something to do with that. We won’t know when OU peaked under Kruger until he retires.

I suspect when high school players are rated the offensive side is favored more than the defensive side. Tech got where they are because they were a defensive unit and not purely an offensive scoring machine. And if they were a tight defensive team then some of the scoring would be attributed to the defense.

 

[SoonerTraveler]

I suspect when high school players are rated the offensive side is favored more than the defensive side. Tech got where they are because they were a defensive unit and not purely an offensive scoring machine. And if they were a tight defensive team then some of the scoring would be attributed to the defense.

I was at a Tip In Club luncheon 2 years ago and in a side-conversation with Coach Crutchfield about recruiting. During the conversation, he said "defense is overrated." Take it FWIW. The way I took his meaning, was that you can recruit offense and teach defense. At the time, I thought his comment was a bit peculiar, that is why it stuck in my memory.

 

[sheepdogs1]

I was at a Tip In Club luncheon 2 years ago and in a side-conversation with Coach Crutchfield about recruiting. During the conversation, he said "defense is overrated." Take it FWIW. The way I took his meaning, was that you can recruit offense and teach defense. At the time, I thought his comment was a bit peculiar, that is why it stuck in my memory.

I could understand, but I could also understand something else. Being taught to play defense and blocking out doesn't necessarily translate to it occurring on the court for it takes a certain level of fortitude and will to make it happen, and some people have it while others plainly do not. There are many players/teams with highly rated players yet they succeed at being neutralized by competitive defenses. Both Virginia and Tech were stingy defenses as was Michigan State. High school players who show their competitive side to playing defense has to have some value versus maybe it will happen.