Higher Expectations: OSU or Tulsa

[StatGeek]

Which university has higher men's basketball expectations? On the surface the question seems ludicrous (and maybe it is), but consider the following:

Over the last 45+ years Tulsa has won more games and owns a higher winning percentage than the Cowboys. Tulsa just fired a coach who inherited a 9 win team and has led the program to 6 straight winning seasons.

Conversely Oklahoma State coach Travis Ford is under very little scrutiny despite inheriting a program that had been to the postseason 17 straight seasons (technically OSU did not play in the postseason in 95-96, but that was because they declined an NIT invite) and he has led the program to its first postseason-less effort since 1989-90. In addition to that dubious distinction Ford is the first Oklahoma State coach since Leonard Hamilton in 1987-88 to guide his team to a losing record. Further Oklahoma State was so happy with coach Ford after the 2008-09 season ( a 23 win campaign, Wojcik has won 23 games or more 3 times) that the school rewarded him with a ridiculous contract.

Taking our eyes off the court for a moment; Coach Wojcik is highly respected as a professional, and his teams by and large have represented the university well. Coach Ford on the other hand has been criticized for a lack of professionalism by local media and his teams have had multiple issues off the court (legal, defections, pulling scholarships, etc.). The University of Tulsa has cited falling attendance figures as a major influence on its decision, but the same could be said of OSU. At the end of the day, all of these factors make me ask the question; which school has higher expectations?

OSU vs. Tulsa By the Numbers

**Updated**Since the 1965-66 season.

Tulsa
867 Wins .610% 23 Postseason Appearances

3-Sweet 16's
1-Elite 8
2-NIT Championships
1-CBI Championship


Oklahoma State
772 Wins .552% 21 Postseason Appearances

6-Sweet 16's
3-Elite 8's
2-Final Fours

Doug Wojcik
140-92 .603 0-NCAA Tournament Wins, 1-NIT Win, CBI Championship

Travis Ford
78-51 .605 1-NCAA Tournament Win, 1-NIT Win

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

 

[sperry]

Not even close. You can recruit big time talent to OSU. You can't recruit big time talent to Tulsa. Tulsa had a stretch of about 25 years where they were unbelievably successful hiring coaches. OSU has a terrible coach right now, but the program has so much more upside than Tulsa if they can bring in the right coach. When they had a a good coach, they managed to make a pair of final fours.

 

[sooner333]

The question isn't who can be better....because the answer is obviously OSU. The question is about expectations, which is closer. I say OSU has higher expectations, but TU fans maybe have higher expectations compared to their ceiling.

 

[DenverSooner]

OSU just wants to be better than OU. Tulsa wants to be a good basketball program.

 

[Max Power]

OSU just wants to be better than OU. Tulsa wants to be a good basketball program.

We have a winner

 

[propoke]

OSU just wants to be better than OU. Tulsa wants to be a good basketball program.

This is completely false, OSU has been better than OU each of the last 3 years yet you will not find a single OSU fan happy with the way things going. I would say most OSU fans expect to be in the top 3-4 in the league, NCAA tournament every year, and a deep run in the tournament every 4 years.

 

[DenverSooner]

This is completely false, OSU has been better than OU each of the last 3 years yet you will not find a single OSU fan happy with the way things going. I would say most OSU fans expect to be in the top 3-4 in the league, NCAA tournament every year, and a deep run in the tournament every 4 years.

You coach got a contract extension fairly recently so someone is happy. Is OSU better than OU this year? I guess I don't see the difference between two below average Big XII teams.

 

[skyvue]

Is OSU better than OU this year?

Exactly. Typical aggie logic.

 

[GIA Stout]

In the last 30 years Tulsa has won more games and owns a higher winning percentage than the Cowboys.

Tulsa has played in a far less superior conference against much weaker competition.

OSU has 23 NCAA tournament wins in the past 30 years, Tulsa has 11.

 

[propoke]

You coach got a contract extension fairly recently so someone is happy. Is OSU better than OU this year? I guess I don't see the difference between two below average Big XII teams.

The extension came after his first year when OSU had a nice season. It was still completely idiotic to give him the extension after one year. It's safe to say to say no one is pleased with the last 2 seasons. As far as this past year both OU and OSU were both terrible. I was going off the fact that OSU won more games in the conference. I think this is a good indicator of who was better because we played the same teams.

Don't get me wrong OSU still sucked and I am by no means crowing about where they finished in league play.

 

[BigTime]

Tulsa could very well have higher expectations in the near future as I expect OSU basketball to continue to become an afterthought to their mainstream fanbase now that the football program continues to gain momentum and "year of the cowboy" status.

Welcome to our world - basketball poke fans...

 

[StatGeek]

Tulsa has played in a far less superior conference against much weaker competition.

OSU has 23 NCAA tournament wins in the past 30 years, Tulsa has 11.

Your NCAA tournament stats are factually inaccurate. OSU has 16 and TU has 13 appearances since the 1981-82 season.

 

[tycat947]

Come on!!! osu is a FOOTBALL school now!!! They don't care about basketball anymore!

 

[GIA Stout]

Your NCAA tournament stats are factually inaccurate. OSU has 16 and TU has 13 appearances since the 1981-82 season.

Did I say appearances?

My point is total wins in CBB is a horrible measure of success between two schools playing against completely different levels of competition.

 

[StatGeek]

Did I say appearances?

My point is total wins in CBB is a horrible measure of success between two schools playing against completely different levels of competition.

Sorry, I misread your post but you are still wrong. OSU 23 TU 13. Plus the discussion isn't about success (which is pretty similar) the discussion is expectations, this seems to be where Tulsa is trying to step up and OSU may be getting lazy.

 

[propoke]

Sorry, I misread your post but you are still wrong. OSU 23 TU 13. Plus the discussion isn't about success (which is pretty similar) the discussion is expectations, this seems to be where Tulsa is trying to step up and OSU may be getting lazy.

If you are questioning OSU's expectations for bball you look at two things.
1) they just built a $10,000,000 dressing room
2) Ford's salery is one of the highest in th Big12

You don't throw money around like that if there aren't high expectations. The fact that Ford's seat isn't any hotter is due to the stupid 10 year contract he has.

 

[skyvue]

I was going off the fact that OSU won more games in the conference. I think this is a good indicator of who was better because it favors my team.

And I'm going off the fact that OU finished with a better record than OSU. Funny how that works, huh?

Actually, I would say the teams were pretty even this year, and you could have said the same. But you didn't.

Given your claim that oswho fans aren't focused on being better than OU, I've sure read a lot of posts from oswho fans on this board the past couple of weeks that touted the "fact" that the aggies have been better/finished higher than OU in recent years.

It's odd, given that you don't care about that.

 

[GIA Stout]

Sorry, I misread your post but you are still wrong. OSU 23 TU 13. Plus the discussion isn't about success (which is pretty similar) the discussion is expectations, this seems to be where Tulsa is trying to step up and OSU may be getting lazy.

For a statgeek I think you suck at facts, Tulsa doesnt even have 13 all time. Where are you getting 13? I count 11, and the success is far from similiar. Just 11 tourney wins and 1 elite with 2 sweet 16s mostly before 2000 doesnt compare.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/tournament/history?team1Id=7690

 

[bocabull]

After graduation? Tulsa by a huge margin.

 

[thebigabd]

After graduation? Tulsa by a huge margin.

My company hires a lot of TU grads. Their graduates, at least the ones we have, are always well prepared for the work and are very sharp.

I dont know that we have an OSU grad here.