Higher Expectations: OSU or Tulsa

I disagree that Ford is facing no scrutiny. I would say he is on the hot seat. I would also say if there isn't about a 8-10 game swing in wins next season it could be over.
 
skyvue said:
And I'm going off the fact that OU finished with a better record than OSU. Funny how that works, huh?

Actually, I would say the teams were pretty even this year, and you could have said the same. But you didn't.

Given your claim that oswho fans aren't focused on being better than OU, I've sure read a lot of posts from oswho fans on this board the past couple of weeks that touted the "fact" that the aggies have been better/finished higher than OU in recent years.

It's odd, given that you don't care about that.
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Did you even read my entire post? I said several time OSU was terrible this past year. OSU won 4 more games than OU playing the same competition. If OU and OSU played the same teams in the non conference then we could use that as an indicator, but they didn't. If anyone is using a skewed stat because it favors them, it is you.

Also kenponm has OSU rated higher than OU this year, and they take into account the non conference schedule.

Again I preference this by saying both teams really sucked.
 
GIA Stout said:
For a statgeek I think you suck at facts, Tulsa doesnt even have 13 all time. Where are you getting 13? I count 11, and the success is far from similiar. Just 11 tourney wins and 1 elite with 2 sweet 16s mostly before 2000 doesnt compare.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/tournament/history?team1Id=7690
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Yes, I made a mistake. I checked the wins on my phone between meetings this afternoon and saw that TU had lost in the NCAA 2nd round and assumed they won a first round game to get to that point, but they had a bye instead. Kinda like how 60 teams have a "first round" bye today.

I decided to go back even further and the results are truly amazing.

Since 1965-66

Oklahoma State
772 Wins
.552 Win %
21 Postseason Appearances

Tulsa
867 Wins
.610 Win %
23 Postseason Appearances

So over the last 45 years or so, Tulsa has more wins, a higher winning %, and more postseason appearances.

So much for the lucky 10-20 year run theory.
 
Could Tulsa ever afford to pay a coach to stick around over major offers? (see: Gonzaga, Butler, VCU)

They've had some damn good coaches in the past, but they haven't been able to hang onto them.
 
GIA Stout said:
Tulsa has played in a far less superior conference against much weaker competition.

OSU has 23 NCAA tournament wins in the past 30 years, Tulsa has 11.
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Tulsa often finds itself playing tougher competition in the opening rounds of the tournament because their seeding takes a hit due to its "Mid-Major" status; so I decided to break the tournament wins down a little bit. Here is what I found:

Record vs. A Better Seed

Oklahoma State 4-7 .364
Tulsa 7-9 .438

Record vs. Current BCS Schools

Oklahoma State 7-12 .368
Tulsa 6-9 .400

And of course head to head TU holds a 1-0 edge over OSU in the NCAA tournament.

So while OSU does have a NCAA tournament wins edge over TU its because they have feasted on 1st round games versus teams like Ga. Southern, Princeton, Hofstra, E. Washington etc., whereas Tulsa's 1st round game is typically versus teams like Louisville, Oklahoma, Illinois, etc.. Tulsa has also had some back luck when they did draw a higher seed, in 1982 they had to play Houston (Phi Slama Jama) despite being the higher seeded team and in 1986 they had to play David Robinson's Navy squad (Elite 8 run that year).

So I appreciate you trying to spin this thing to NCAA wins but when you compare the results of the two teams against similar competition, the results are still eerily similar, in fact Tulsa has performed at a slightly higher level. Unfortunately for Tulsa they don't get to pad their NCAA win total against Low-Major scrubs like OU & OSU have.
 
Sawyer said:
Could Tulsa ever afford to pay a coach to stick around over major offers? (see: Gonzaga, Butler, VCU)

They've had some damn good coaches in the past, but they haven't been able to hang onto them.
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I don't know any exact numbers but it is my understanding that they have and will pay pretty well. The problem Tulsa has had is that most of the coaches they have had that produce at a very high level are young, and they have higher aspirations than the ceiling at Tulsa allows. If one of the more seasoned coaches they hire ever pans out at a high level I think they will pay to keep him. I guess what I am trying to say is Tulsa will pay to keep their coach but they can't control a coaches desire to win a National Championship (Nolan, Self, Tubby).
 
Plus the discussion isn't about success (which is pretty similar)
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How could you possibly say that our success is similar?

In the past 25 years, OSU has been to two Final Fours, and Elite Eight and three Sweet Sixteens, plus won two conference titles and three conference tournament titles in one of the top basketball conferences in the country.

Tulsa has won a mid-major conference a few times and been to the Elite Eight once.

It's not even close.

I decided to go back even further and the results are truly amazing.
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What's "truly amazing" is the spin-job you're putting together here.

Do you honestly think that just looking at the W/L record of OSU and TU over this time frame is an apples-to-apples comparison?

You're honestly going to tell me that OSU competing in the Big 8 and Big 12 all of these years is the same thing as TU competing in the MVC, WAC, C-USA, etc?

And who gives a crap about "postseason appearances"... comparing TU going to the NIT a bunch of times with OSU going to the NCAA tournament... LOL.

The bottom line is that, in this time frame that you've arbitrarily pulled, TU has a slightly better overall record playing against much weaker competition. Good for them.

But OSU has far more NCAA tournament wins and overall success. OSU also has won a major conference multiple times and a major conference tournament multiple times.

And getting back to the original question here -- let's not forget that TU has missed the NCAA Tournament now for nine consecutive years.

Look at it this way: OSU has been to the Final Four since TU last made the NCAA Tournament.

That tells you all you need to know about expectations right there.
 
It's like TU fans trying to argue they have the better football program when the majority of their wins have been against non-BCS schools while OSU has had to play teams like OU, Texas, Nebraska, K-State, Mizzou and others every single year.

Comparing Tulsa's level of competition against OSU is like comparing a class 2A high schools teams success against a 6A high school.
 
PasoPoke said:
.....while OSU has had to play teams like OU, Texas, Nebraska, K-State, Mizzou and others every single year.
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I get your point, but TU played more football games against teams that finished in the AP top 25 last year than OSU did. Just something to think about.
 
propoke said:
if you are questioning osu's expectations for bball you look at two things.
1) they just built a $10,000,000 dressing room2) ford's salery is one of the highest in th big12

you don't throw money around like that if there aren't high expectations. The fact that ford's seat isn't any hotter is due to the stupid 10 year contract he has.
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huh?????
 
propoke said:
Sorry, I ment $4 million. Dont know where I got $10 million. Anyway, that's still a lot of money for a locker room.
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When did they do this as their basketball arena was just redone what 5 to 10 years ago? I have heard NOTHING on this remodel that you are talking about - if they had done this I would have thought they would have trumpeted it to the world as T-Bone likes to do. So I am just wanting some confirmation from a legit source - not a Cowpoke on the Sooner board making things up.
That being said, OU has spent 10's of millions on upgrades to all of our basketball locker rooms/training rooms/each team has their own basketball court attached to Lloyd Noble/ etc. I believe that many OUTSIDE basketball people have stated that OU's basketball facilities take a back seat to NO-ONE. They are the nicest out there - I have been through all of them and OU's are Amazing.
 
When does construction start on that 16,000 seat baseball stadium in Stillwater? Still waiting on that one.
 
tycat947 said:
Yeah, but the lockers are still in Stoolwater, right???

:ez-roll::ez-roll::ez-roll:
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Yes, that is the REAL problem with their digs, LOL. You have to live in Stoolwater - nothing really there - ugly - nothing to do, etc. An hour to OKC - I have seen the OU facilities and they are every bit as nice and thorough as the one's in Stoolwater. AND, you get to live in Norman/OKC!!
You hang out in the osu basketball locker rooms and then walk outside and go "CRAP, I'm still in Stoolwater" , LOL
 
seniorsooner said:
When does construction start on that 16,000 seat baseball stadium in Stillwater? Still waiting on that one.
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From what I have seen OSU needs to spend the money on a new baseball coach before a new stadium.
 
WTSooner said:
I get your point, but TU played more football games against teams that finished in the AP top 25 last year than OSU did. Just something to think about.
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And OSU beat the crap out of Tulsa at 3:30 in the morning...just something to think about.
 
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