Inaccurate claims re Sherri Coale/OU WBB found on the OU official site

[badger]

Re: Has anybody actually looked

I realize that it's outdated, but I could easily switch some of the one-liners to things like "I won a Heisman, but only got an Alamo Bowl out of it" and "I have arguably the best womens basketball player ever, but only one national title to show for it"

 

[NMSooner'80]

I also remember that the OSU men's basketball media guide, for years, listed the 1980 game in Norman as an OSU win. They at least got the score right, 91-82, but it was OU that won. We never lost to OSU in Norman when I was in school at OU, nor did we lose that game in '76 that wound up being OU's first ever LNC home win.

But, I'm sure that the Aggy media relations people took their sweet time making the correction, and did so with gritted teeth. I'm sure it's correct now, but I'll bet they also didn't like it if the person who corrected them was a "Cheatin' Gooner."

 

[BlackwellSooner]

This is inacurrate information on both counts. Kim Mulkey has a higher winning percentage in Big 12 play than Sherri Coale does. Also, the Baylor Lady Bears are the all time leaders in total conference wins and winning percentage. Not by much, but technically, Baylor does hold the lead.

At the close of the 2011-12 season, the all time conference records were as follows:

BU 169-89
OU 168-90

Also, all time conference winning percentage:

Mulkey: 73.19%(142-52)
Coale: 65.11%(168-90)

To start this season, Mulkey is 16-1(6-0) and Coale is 15-3(5-1). So Mulkey/BU have actually extended their leads a bit this year.

A couple of things to ponder, TC: First, OU basketball, when Sherri took over as HC, was totally in the toilet... it narrowly escaped being cancelled as a sport at Oklahoma. So Sherri had a LOT more work to improve the program than did Mulkey at Baylor.
Sherri's first two years as HC OU went 1-15 and 4-12 in conference play, which only adds emphasis to the sorry state of the program.
Mulkey faced no such rebuilding job at Baylor as did Sherri at OU. Mulkey's first two years, she turned in 9-9 and 12-4 conference records, so she wound up +16 over Sherri in wins the first two years as HC for each of them.

Also, if you look at the last 9 games played between Baylor and OU, the record is 4-9, in favor of Baylor - - - THIS WITH THE BENEFIT OF ARGUABLY THE GREATEST FEMALE CENTER in the history of the game!

What's gonna happen next year when Baylor will be minus these senior players?

Griner, Brittney
Hayden, Kimetria
Madden, Jordan
Pope, Brooklyn
Williams, Destiny

Maybe it will be time to see how well Mulkey does without a lineup of seasoned talent, led by a 6-8 superstar...

Your only contributor this year that will be in uniform next year is Odyssey Sims. That's it!

So, in conclusion, strut while you may this season. Baylor's 15 minutes is just about up!

Now, go back to the Baylor message board, will ya?

 

[SoonerNorm]

A couple of things to ponder, TC: First, OU basketball, when Sherri took over as HC, was totally in the toilet... it narrowly escaped being cancelled as a sport at Oklahoma. So Sherri had a LOT more work to improve the program than did Mulkey at Baylor.
Sherri's first two years as HC OU went 1-15 and 4-12 in conference play, which only adds emphasis to the sorry state of the program.
Mulkey faced no such rebuilding job at Baylor as did Sherri at OU. Mulkey's first two years, she turned in 9-9 and 12-4 conference records, so she wound up +16 over Sherri in wins the first two years as HC for each of them.

Also, if you look at the last 9 games played between Baylor and OU, the record is 4-9, in favor of Baylor - - - THIS WITH THE BENEFIT OF ARGUABLY THE GREATEST FEMALE CENTER in the history of the game!

What's gonna happen next year when Baylor will be minus these senior players?

Griner, Brittney
Hayden, Kimetria
Madden, Jordan
Pope, Brooklyn
Williams, Destiny

Maybe it will be time to see how well Mulkey does without a lineup of seasoned talent, led by a 6-8 superstar...

Your only contributor this year that will be in uniform next year is Odyssey Sims. That's it!

So, in conclusion, strut while you may this season. Baylor's 15 minutes is just about up!

Now, go back to the Baylor message board, will ya?

To be fair, Kim took over a program that was struggling. Baylor had gone 44-45 in the three years prior to Kim and went 72-26 in Kim's first three years. Sonya Hogg was 7-20 her last year and Baylor was 2-14 in conference.

Sherri took over a team that went 52-36 in the three years prior to her arrival and she was 48-55 in her first three years.

I would say neither coach took over ideal coaching situations but, of course, if those teams were winning big, most likely the previous coaches would have remained.

 

[NMSooner'80]

The last pre-Sherri team at OU went into the tank. They were an NCAA tournament the year before, but they only won 12 games that year (and among other things, stunk it up in The Pit against a so-so UNM team).

I know the first couple of seasons under Sherri didn't go that well, but they turned it around in a hurry by years 3-4.

 

[SoonerSpock]

Much is made of the dire straights of the Oklahoma program because of the administrations attempt to drop the women's basketball program and that is often used to establish the program shortcoming that Sherri had to overcome. What many fail to recognize is Sherri arrived as the OU coach seven seasons after OU's announcement to drop the program in March of 1990.

For certain Gary Hudson was very unsuccessful (.464) in his three years following the OU announcement. However Burl Plunkett was more than moderately successful (.591) during the three season after Hudson and prior to Coale coming to OU. We need to only remember that with Sherri's outstanding success her winning percentage of .680 is only 9% better than Plunkett's.

 

[sybarite]

Ive seen this cliam before. It kind of leaves me with the same feelings that I have when someone suggests that "they were better off under slavery. At least, they didn't have to pay taxes."

The fact that OU cancelled the program defines the attitude of the administration towards women's sports. It's not like it was underfunded for a couple of years or suspended. It was cancelled. What does that say about the sports administration department--or the university? If you just think about the fact that the program was cancelled, it should leave you with a little nausea. Your university cancelled a woman's basketball program. Are you still not in absolute shock?

Even when it returned, what kind of commitment do you think you might expect from a program and university that had cancelled the program? How do you build on that? There is no future there. You just have a job as a coach with a program that has no real future.

It's not like basketball has been treated well at OU in the past. We spent fortunes upgrading football facilities. But, that old gym didn't even get new seats, not that anyone showed up until Alvan Adams appeared. Lloyd Noble might be the House that Adams built. It was always a bit second-rate. But, to cancel a program?

Would you go to OU if you were a good prospect, knowing that only a few years ago, the program had been cancelled? Even when OU did hire a coadh to fill an empty position, did they look at a top assistant of a major program, an established program? What kind of message did it send that they hired a highschool coach? When Notre Dame did that in football, they called in the Darkest Hour in Notre Dame Football.

It is on that foundation that Sherry built a program. Frankly, I don't know how she did it. I think there was some luck in assembling that 2002 team. It was that team that launched OU. Coale could take a team to the finals! It got some attention. That was an achievement.

Yet, I still get the feeling that every wannabe thinks he knows more about basketball than Sherri. When I see that attitude expressed, it seems so easy to remember that a lack of respect for the program caused it to be cancelled altogether. Hack coaches who cheat get more respect than Sherri. Wonder if they would cancel the program again if there were a few down years?

 

[SoonerNorm]

Much is made of the dire straights of the Oklahoma program because of the administrations attempt to drop the women's basketball program and that is often used to establish the program shortcoming that Sherri had to overcome. What many fail to recognize is Sherri arrived as the OU coach seven seasons after OU's announcement to drop the program in March of 1990.

For certain Gary Hudson was very unsuccessful (.464) in his three years following the OU announcement. However Burl Plunkett was more than moderately successful (.591) during the three season after Hudson and prior to Coale coming to OU. We need to only remember that with Sherri's outstanding success her winning percentage of .680 is only 9% better than Plunkett's.

I agree, Sherri didn't inherit a great situation but she did inherit one better than Plunkett did.

 

[35TangoTango]

Well, if we're going to be honest and objective, we probably have to admit that Coach Coale lost some games those first couple of years because she was in on-the-job-training learning how to be a college coach, and that will forever skew her lifetime average. She did pretty well once she got the hang of it, however.

Kim Mulkey, on the other hand, was probably the most prepared first year head coach in the history of the game. She had had a lot of responsibility at La Tech, and had waited a long time for her shot. She was great out of the gate.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Well, if we're going to be honest and objective, we probably have to admit that Coach Coale lost some games those first couple of years because she was in on-the-job-training learning how to be a college coach, and that will forever skew her lifetime average. She did pretty well once she got the hang of it, however.

Kim Mulkey, on the other hand, was probably the most prepared first year head coach in the history of the game. She had had a lot of responsibility at La Tech, and had waited a long time for her shot. She was great out of the gate.

Very good points!

 

[SoonerSpock]

Ive seen this cliam before. It kind of leaves me with the same feelings that I have when someone suggests that "they were better off under slavery. At least, they didn't have to pay taxes."

The fact that OU cancelled the program defines the attitude of the administration towards women's sports. It's not like it was underfunded for a couple of years or suspended. It was cancelled. What does that say about the sports administration department--or the university? If you just think about the fact that the program was cancelled, it should leave you with a little nausea. Your university cancelled a woman's basketball program. Are you still not in absolute shock?

Even when it returned, what kind of commitment do you think you might expect from a program and university that had cancelled the program? How do you build on that? There is no future there. You just have a job as a coach with a program that has no real future.

It's not like basketball has been treated well at OU in the past. We spent fortunes upgrading football facilities. But, that old gym didn't even get new seats, not that anyone showed up until Alvan Adams appeared. Lloyd Noble might be the House that Adams built. It was always a bit second-rate. But, to cancel a program?

Would you go to OU if you were a good prospect, knowing that only a few years ago, the program had been cancelled? Even when OU did hire a coadh to fill an empty position, did they look at a top assistant of a major program, an established program? What kind of message did it send that they hired a highschool coach? When Notre Dame did that in football, they called in the Darkest Hour in Notre Dame Football.

It is on that foundation that Sherry built a program. Frankly, I don't know how she did it. I think there was some luck in assembling that 2002 team. It was that team that launched OU. Coale could take a team to the finals! It got some attention. That was an achievement.

Yet, I still get the feeling that every wannabe thinks he knows more about basketball than Sherri. When I see that attitude expressed, it seems so easy to remember that a lack of respect for the program caused it to be cancelled altogether. Hack coaches who cheat get more respect than Sherri. Wonder if they would cancel the program again if there were a few down years?

Poppycock!! Being a past president of the WBB coaches association and receiving a multitude of media accolades more than confirms how loved and respected Sherri is by her fans, media and peers. Unfortunately many OU fans want to only defame Mulky and role her in the muck. Kim needs to recognized as both controversial and great as a coach because she is both.

Failure to acknowledge a coach with two national championships and probably a third this year says more about the poster than it does the coach. Her record does all the talking needed about her as a coach.

 

[sybarite]

Poppycock!! Being a past president of the WBB coaches association and receiving a multitude of media accolades more than confirms how loved and respected Sherri is by her fans, media and peers. Unfortunately many OU fans want to only defame Mulky and role her in the muck. Kim needs to recognized as both controversial and great as a coach because she is both.

Failure to acknowledge a coach with two national championships and probably a third this year says more about the poster than it does the coach. Her record does all the talking needed about her as a coach.

Nonsense, as usual. The national community respects Sherri more than many local fans. The national community didn't cancel the OU program.

Kim? It isn't surprising that you would regard her as great while the national community will probably always hold her somewhat in contempt. How many women coaches have felt the sting of Voepel and Jenkins? Why did they single out Kim?

 

[SoonerNorm]

Kim has the ability to rub people the wrong way (so does Geno, Stoops, and a lot of other great coaches). She made mistakes in recruiting and was penalized (like a lot of other great coaches) but, I'm pretty sure if the worst thing that ever happens to her is to raise the ire of Voepel and Jenkins, she will be thrilled with that.

I don't agree with everything Kim says or does but I darn sure respect her for being a great coach just like I respect Geno even though I don't agree with his smug arrogant attitude.

 

[sybarite]

How many people, other than Pat Summit in a rage over one player, have ever accused Geno of cheating? He may rub people the wrong way, but nobody thinks that his success has been enhanced by cheating. He is more often accused of being a martinet than of being of low character.

Pat Summit coached for years. I didn't like some of her later years when she acted a bit more like it was due to her. But, she was a great coach who raised the level of the sport. Does anyone deny that? She was good for women's basketball. Does anyone think Kim is good for women's basketball? Does anyone think she cares about elevating the sport?

There is one "controversy" that emerged once again on the board this week, that of Griner's eligibility. I question if that would even be a consideration if Griner were at Connecticut, Notre Dame, Tennessee, Oklahoma, or Stanford. Where the coach is respected, and the integrity of the program is respected, would there even be a consideration? But, it is Kim and Baylor. That brings an element of faith into question.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Before casting too many stones at any other coach for cheating it would behoove us to think back for a second about our own problems in that regard. We have had multiple coaches guilty of the same thing. It didn't make them the scum of the earth.

 

[sybarite]

Before casting too many stones at any other coach for cheating it would behoove us to think back for a second about our own problems in that regard. We have had multiple coaches guilty of the same thing. It didn't make them the scum of the earth.

You always bring up other sports in which cheating has existed, admittedly, by ALL schools. It was a part of the system by which the NCAA was born. This is a women's basketball board, something different.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Syb, if you are suggesting Sherri has never violated NCAA rules in recruiting you are mistaken.

 

[sybarite]

I know. I know. Sherri is an incompetent crook. Kim is the person we should all aspire to be.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Your defense of Geno is interesting. He was guilty of cheating while recruiting Maya Moore and that seems to be okay with you. Kim is guilty of cheating in recruiting and suddenly she is too evil for words. As far as I can tell, Sherri, Geno, and Kim all have just one violation to which they were found guilty.

That said, I don't think for a second that women's basketball coaches are all angels who do no wrong. I think a large number of them have cheated more than once. They just haven't been caught.

 

[35TangoTango]

As far as I can tell, Sherri, Geno, and Kim all have just one violation to which they were found guilty.

I'll quibble with that. I don't think Geno was found guilty of anything (except by Pat). Sherri self-reported a very limited number of excess phone calls. Kim was found guilty after an NCAA investigation of a large number of phone calls and the greater violation of a number of impermissible contacts with recruits' parents at AAU games. Geno received no penalty from the NCAA; Sherri received no penalty from the NCAA; Kim (and Baylor) was penalized by the NCAA (but not nearly enough).