Lon is 2-8 all time in the Big 12 Tourney

[WichitaSooner]

How many of those AD's are at top 20 all time basketball programs?

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2017-03-29/ap-releases-top-100-college-basketball-programs-based-poll

Quite a few. UCLA, Indiana, Illinois, Syracuse, Ohio St, Georgetown, Notre Dame. And that doesn't include three programs (UConn, Arizona, and Louisville) who have had great runs over that period but have also fired coaches and/or found themselves in the middle of major scandal.

 

[SoonerTraveler]

I'm not content winning 7-8 Big 12 games a year and being a 10 seed. Our program is better than that. I haven't done extensive research on what the other Big 12 teams will look like next year, but I see a very similar season next year. We're going to be relying on a lot of new/young faces next year, and we're still not going to have a legit big man.

Even more than that, we are unlikely to have a team full of players that will be willing to FIGHT and play HARD for their coach.

 

[Max Power]

Quite a few. UCLA, Indiana, Illinois, Syracuse, Ohio St, Georgetown, Notre Dame. And that doesn't include three programs (UConn, Arizona, and Louisville) who have had great runs over that period but have also fired coaches and/or found themselves in the middle of major scandal.

yea they fire coaches for not living up to the standards of the program. Just like OU basketball hasn't lived up to its standards the last 3 years

 

[BoulderSooner]

Agreed. His statement is just an excuse. The Big 12 has been PLENTY tough over the years. It's no more difficult today than it was 10 years ago.

big conf rating under the last 3 coaches no good data pre big 12
96-97 2nd best conf
97-98 8th best conf
98-99 7th best conf
99-00 7th best conf
00-01 6th best conf
01-02 3rd best conf
02-03 best conf
03-04 8th best conf
04-05 3rd best conf
05-06 5th best conf
06-07 7th best conf
07-08 2nd best conf
08-09 3rd best conf
09-10 best conf
10-11 3rd best conf
11-12 3rd best conf
12-13 5th best conf
13-14 best conf
14-15 best conf
15-16 best conf
16-17 2nd best conf
17-18 best conf
18-19 best conf

Kelvin average 5th best conf Capel average 3.2 best conf kruger average 1.8 best conf and 1.17 the last 6 years

kelvin feasted on a much easier conf

 

[BoulderSooner]

next year will be the most talented roster of the kruger era

 

[WichitaSooner]

yea they fire coaches for not living up to the standards of the program. Just like OU basketball hasn't lived up to its standards the last 3 years

So I will take that as a concession that you can't logically debate my point that we have had more success than those programs over the last 7 years, so you have instead resorted to your opinion about a much smaller sample size.

 

[Max Power]

So I will take that as a concession that you can't logically debate my point that we have had more success than those programs over the last 7 years, so you have instead resorted to your opinion about a much smaller sample size.

No i can argue your point, out side of 2 years, lon has had teams below the standard of OU. Including the only 20 loss team in OU history. We as a program are better than that. 12.5% of the time he is at the standard of the proram, 12.5% he exceeded it, 75% he is below it including one of the worst seasons ever at OU. IF you had those results at your job you would be fired.

 

[BoulderSooner]

No i can argue your point, out side of 2 years, lon has had teams below the standard of OU. Including the only 20 loss team in OU history. We as a program are better than that. 12.5% of the time he is at the standard of the proram, 12.5% he exceeded it, 75% he is below it including one of the worst seasons ever at OU. IF you had those results at your job you would be fired.

what is the "standard"

 

[WaymanFan]

Agreed. His statement is just an excuse. The Big 12 has been PLENTY tough over the years. It's no more difficult today than it was 10 years ago.

While I agree the top half of the conference was every bit as tough 10, 15, 20 years ago as today (perhaps even slightly better), there were also some "gimmes" we could count on (ex: aTm under Melvin Watkins, early years of Scott Drew at Baylor, plus Colorado and Nebraska most years). As such, the bottom half is much better today than it was back then.

I'm extremely disappointed we could not take care of business and beat WVU last night. I'm not ready to move on from Coach Kruger (though I wish he upgraded his assistants), but acknowledge that he may be on the hot seat next year if we have to keep sweating out Selection Sunday. Like you and others have pointed out, our program is better than that.

 

[Max Power]

what is the "standard"

73% winning Percentage
67% conference winning percentage
Average finish in Conference 3
Win the conference 20% of the time
Win the conference tournament 20% of the time
out of the 1st round of the NCAA tournament 50% of the time (Including season where OU is in the NIT)
1 season of no post season at all

Like we had under Billy and Kelvin

Under Lon

60% winning percentage
50% conference winning percentage
Average finish in Conference 5
Win the conference 0% of the time
Win the conference tournament 0% of the time
out of the first round 25% of the time
2 seasons of no post season at all

 

[WTSooner]

next year will be the most talented roster of the kruger era

You can keep saying that, but taking experience and stuff into account, it simply will not be true. I don't give a crap about a 4* freshman when compared to Buddy, Cousins, and Spangler as seniors. That's just silly.

 

[WTSooner]

big conf rating under the last 3 coaches no good data pre big 12
96-97 2nd best conf
97-98 8th best conf
98-99 7th best conf
99-00 7th best conf
00-01 6th best conf
01-02 3rd best conf
02-03 best conf
03-04 8th best conf
04-05 3rd best conf
05-06 5th best conf
06-07 7th best conf
07-08 2nd best conf
08-09 3rd best conf
09-10 best conf
10-11 3rd best conf
11-12 3rd best conf
12-13 5th best conf
13-14 best conf
14-15 best conf
15-16 best conf
16-17 2nd best conf
17-18 best conf
18-19 best conf

Kelvin average 5th best conf Capel average 3.2 best conf kruger average 1.8 best conf and 1.17 the last 6 years

kelvin feasted on a much easier conf

I don't give a crap about those ratings. They are not reflective of reality. Like I already told you, all it really means is that our bad teams are better than the bad teams in other conferences. Does. Not. Matter. If you are really trying to tell me that the Big 12 is easily the best conference over the last 6 years, you are a lost cause. Again, it's a flawed way to measure conference strength.

 

[WTSooner]

No i can argue your point, out side of 2 years, lon has had teams below the standard of OU. Including the only 20 loss team in OU history. We as a program are better than that. 12.5% of the time he is at the standard of the proram, 12.5% he exceeded it, 75% he is below it including one of the worst seasons ever at OU. IF you had those results at your job you would be fired.

Exactly. Those are cold hard facts.

 

[BoulderSooner]

73% winning Percentage
67% conference winning percentage
Average finish in Conference 3
Win the conference 20% of the time
Win the conference tournament 20% of the time
out of the 1st round of the NCAA tournament 50% of the time (Including season where OU is in the NIT)
1 season of no post season at all

Like we had under Billy and Kelvin

Under Lon

60% winning percentage
50% conference winning percentage
Average finish in Conference 5
Win the conference 0% of the time
Win the conference tournament 0% of the time
out of the first round 25% of the time
2 seasons of no post season at all

of course they coached in a different era in a much easier conf and didn't have to start at a point of total rebuild ...

 

[BoulderSooner]

I don't give a crap about those ratings. They are not reflective of reality. Like I already told you, all it really means is that our bad teams are better than the bad teams in other conferences. Does. Not. Matter. If you are really trying to tell me that the Big 12 is easily the best conference over the last 6 years, you are a lost cause. Again, it's a flawed way to measure conference strength.

no hard facts are telling you that not random opinion

 

[BoulderSooner]

While I agree the top half of the conference was every bit as tough 10, 15, 20 years ago as today (perhaps even slightly better), there were also some "gimmes" we could count on (ex: aTm under Melvin Watkins, early years of Scott Drew at Baylor, plus Colorado and Nebraska most years). As such, the bottom half is much better today than it was back then.

I'm extremely disappointed we could not take care of business and beat WVU last night. I'm not ready to move on from Coach Kruger (though I wish he upgraded his assistants), but acknowledge that he may be on the hot seat next year if we have to keep sweating out Selection Sunday. Like you and others have pointed out, our program is better than that.

OU also didn't have to play several of the better teams twice a year

 

[Max Power]

of course they coached in a different era in a much easier conf and didn't have to start at a point of total rebuild ...

well if you want to talk about total rebuild, then how do you explain years 6, 7, & 8 under lon? Year 6 is the only 20 loss season ever at OU. Whose mess is he cleaning up?

 

[WichitaSooner]

no hard facts are telling you that not random opinion

But don't you understand, WT knows far more when it comes to ranking college basketball conferences than the people who do it for a living! Also, is it really that difficult for people to understand what you are saying when you refer to the "talent" on next year's roster? It is unreal that people can't understand that "experience or stuff" isn't relevant in assessing pure talent. Boulder has never said that next year's team will be better than the 2016 FF team. How that concept gets continually missed is beyond me.

 

[BoulderSooner]

well if you want to talk about total rebuild, then how do you explain years 6, 7, & 8 under lon? Year 6 is the only 20 loss season ever at OU. Whose mess is he cleaning up?

years 7 and 8 OU is going the tourney

year 6 OU had a couple of recruiting misses that hurt the team and hurt the season

Lon has had 1 bad year as coach of OU and it was year 6 ... OU is now back on the full up swing ..

 

[WichitaSooner]

well if you want to talk about total rebuild, then how do you explain years 6, 7, & 8 under lon? Year 6 is the only 20 loss season ever at OU. Whose mess is he cleaning up?

My response would be that years 7 and 8 ended in the NCAA tournament and were not total rebuilds. As for year 6, we sucked. Had the kind of season that everyone but blue bloods has occasionally. Fortunately, we have them far less often than most programs. If that happened on a regular basis, sure, Lon shouldn't last long. But since we have had no other season like that, it's anything but a trend.