Moser’s HS recruiting

[jaymOU]

Sorry guys, I lost access to the board at work, dumb firewall. So I may have missed this discussion elsewhere…but here we go:

With Los and Oweh struggling and Cooper not playing at all. Just how good is PM at HS recruiting? This was one of the things I was most excited about PM’s stint at OU.

I thought Los and Oweh would be the best players on this team, but they haven’t been.

PM has said he wants to build from inside the program and I love that, but is it realistic now?

Or every year are you going to have raid the portal for your best players?

Could this be a development issue too?

 

[WichitaSooner]

Sorry guys, I lost access to the board at work, dumb firewall. So I may have missed this discussion elsewhere…but here we go:

With Los and Oweh struggling and Cooper not playing at all. Just how good is PM at HS recruiting? This was one of the things I was most excited about PM’s stint at OU.

I thought Los and Oweh would be the best players on this team, but they haven’t been.

PM has said he wants to build from inside the program and I love that, but is it realistic now?

Or every year are you going to have raid the portal for your best players?

Could this be a development issue too?

We did discuss it yesterday, and I agree with your post. He has signed essentially four or five guys with good rankings. Los and Oweh have regressed, Cooper can't get minutes even when we are missing guys due to injury AND Oweh is playing like crap, and Cole was apparently never a part of the plan for this year. Luke is likely to be a career role player. I expect Atak won't be a difference maker any time soon, and Forsythe is another guy I see as a role player at best over his career. Whether it is poor development of young guys, Moser being unwilling to play guys early and let them make mistakes, or them not being as good as their rankings -- I think we will definitely be relying on the portal.

 

[WTSooner]

It's a little early to conclude, but I'd say it's more of a player development problem than a recruiting one.

That said, I have stated by desires to recruit more polished basketball players, even if that means giving up some athleticism.

 

[MJSooner]

Sorry guys, I lost access to the board at work, dumb firewall. So I may have missed this discussion elsewhere…but here we go:

With Los and Oweh struggling and Cooper not playing at all. Just how good is PM at HS recruiting? This was one of the things I was most excited about PM’s stint at OU.

I thought Los and Oweh would be the best players on this team, but they haven’t been.

PM has said he wants to build from inside the program and I love that, but is it realistic now?

Or every year are you going to have raid the portal for your best players?

Could this be a development issue too?

Hard to compare football to basketball, where one miss, development, or injury impacts a class much greater than one out of 25 in football, but no one has ever argued against Texas not having good recruiting classes just because they didn't win NCs. Or in basketball at Texas too, for that matter. The recruiting process- the evaluation, the ranking, and the ability to attract and sign the top players doesn't change how successful a coach is at that process just because the outcomes are different.

Maybe a way to say a coach can be a GREAT recruiter, and maybe not as good as at X&Os or development, and the outcomes are different. Just as the opposite is true- not a great recruiter, but great at coaching and development. Think about it, for the longest time Scott Drew was known to be a great recruiter, but not a great coach.

As far as PM goes, I think he is a really good recruiter, especially HS recruiting. He has the energy, and personality, and can sell the vision to players and their families. I also think he is good at the Xs and Os. What has been a drawback to this point is I don't think his recruiting has always fit his system. That is what makes Kelvin a great coach is he gets the type of player/athlete that perfectly fits what he wants to do on AND off the court. Another setback for Moser has been development, which I think is directly tied to his staff, and lack of continuity on his staff. Look at what happened to LK after Hill (RIP) and Henson left. Player development and growth were noticeably impacted. I also agree with Wichita's point that he doesn't trust his freshman and young players and let them make mistakes on the floor. Sometimes that is the best teacher.

Los and Oweh also have been impacted by the sophomore slump, and maybe aren't/weren't ready physically and mentally to be the top players on the team. Not every player is ready to be Option 1 or 1A, and I think that is part of their issue. Maybe Los was great at being PG 1A last year with Sherfield, but wasn't ready, at least mentally, to be PG1. Maybe didn't do the work? And unfortunately, continuity and the portal are just part of it in college ball in the year 2024. Regardless of the program and coach.

I'm encouraged Moser seems to recognize his and the program's faults and tries to improve, just like he did last season with the staff and trying to get a more athletic roster. If he sticks around, I am sure he'll keep working to get better as a coach and a team, and despite what many think, his trajectory has been in the right direction.

 

[tmeyer3307]

I think he's been solid as a recruiter and as an Xs and Os coach. His first two years the system sucked and was clearly no fun/slow. We had guys that could play faster and he would not let them go. I don't think his style will ever be super fun/fast high scoring like I'd like to see, but it's getting better.
Player wise:
Oweh - does everything pretty well, other than shoot the dang ball. That was broken before he got to OU and hasn't been fixed.
Los - Slump/lack of confidence. The guy can play, think he can be an elite passing pg/defender. Not sure he will ever be the scorer/shooter that we want him to be.
Cole - I'm a bit nervous about him.. but maybe he gets 10-12 min a game next season behind Moore. That would be good for him to learn and come in slow.
Cooper - Freak athlete, but watching him play basketball, not sure he's very good. Watch him run and move.. it's like again he's not coordinated or skilled.. Something is missing. Hopefully next year he's big time. I was so excited when we got him.
Norweather - Pure offensive guy, not athletic or strong enough. Think he's a backup at best for his whole career.(not a bad thing)
Atak - Think he is a year or two down the road guy.
Forsythe - Can shoot and score.. is he quick/athletic enough to play big mins. I believe he could get mins as a backup pg next season and then maybe take over as a soph.

We better hit on a defensive big guy, probably a guard that can go as well in transfer portal.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I think he's been solid as a recruiter and as an Xs and Os coach. His first two years the system sucked and was clearly no fun/slow. We had guys that could play faster and he would not let them go. I don't think his style will ever be super fun/fast high scoring like I'd like to see, but it's getting better.
Player wise:
Oweh - does everything pretty well, other than shoot the dang ball. That was broken before he got to OU and hasn't been fixed.
Los - Slump/lack of confidence. The guy can play, think he can be an elite passing pg/defender. Not sure he will ever be the scorer/shooter that we want him to be.
Cole - I'm a bit nervous about him.. but maybe he gets 10-12 min a game next season behind Moore. That would be good for him to learn and come in slow.
Cooper - Freak athlete, but watching him play basketball, not sure he's very good. Watch him run and move.. it's like again he's not coordinated or skilled.. Something is missing. Hopefully next year he's big time. I was so excited when we got him.
Norweather - Pure offensive guy, not athletic or strong enough. Think he's a backup at best for his whole career.(not a bad thing)
Atak - Think he is a year or two down the road guy.
Forsythe - Can shoot and score.. is he quick/athletic enough to play big mins. I believe he could get mins as a backup pg next season and then maybe take over as a soph.

We better hit on a defensive big guy, probably a guard that can go as well in transfer portal.

I guess I don't see the same thing you do in Oweh. I would love it if shooting were his only issue, but I don't find anything in his offensive game to like. Bad handles, doesn't finish well at the rim, and makes a lot of really bad decisions.

 

[TEvans4Three]

Here is a decent breakdown of our players in CONF only:




Not only is Oweh's ORtg atrocious, but is point above replacement is 3rd worst on the team. He has the most usage as well. Crazy that Rivaldo is 100% our MVP in conf play, love to see that.

If you sort by ORtg, you get Soares, Northweather, Darthard, Moore...in that order. Fascinating.

Link: Barttorvik.com

 

[Stikboy]

Here is a decent breakdown of our players in CONF only:

View attachment 1029


Not only is Oweh's ORtg atrocious, but is point above replacement is 3rd worst on the team. He has the most usage as well. Crazy that Rivaldo is 100% our MVP in conf play, love to see that.

If you sort by ORtg, you get Soares, Northweather, Darthard, Moore...in that order. Fascinating.

I'm sorry, can you link to this site? Pretty cool info..

 

[steverocks35]

Here is a decent breakdown of our players in CONF only:

View attachment 1029


Not only is Oweh's ORtg atrocious, but is point above replacement is 3rd worst on the team. He has the most usage as well. Crazy that Rivaldo is 100% our MVP in conf play, love to see that.

If you sort by ORtg, you get Soares, Northweather, Darthard, Moore...in that order. Fascinating.

Uzan is also terrible considering he's supposed to be our star and a lottery pick

 

[WichitaSooner]

Here is a decent breakdown of our players in CONF only:

View attachment 1029


Not only is Oweh's ORtg atrocious, but is point above replacement is 3rd worst on the team. He has the most usage as well. Crazy that Rivaldo is 100% our MVP in conf play, love to see that.

If you sort by ORtg, you get Soares, Northweather, Darthard, Moore...in that order. Fascinating.

Man, that is just brutal for Oweh. He truly has done nothing well other than make his 6 dunks. The fact that Waldo's usage is that low, despite being so effective, is criminal. Los also has way too much red/pink. And it's crazy that he has no made dunks in 17 games. At his size, that speaks to his limitations as an athlete.

 

[steverocks35]

Man, that is just brutal for Oweh. He truly has done nothing well other than make his 6 dunks. The fact that Waldo's usage is that low, despite being so effective, is criminal. Los also has way too much red/pink. And it's crazy that he has no made dunks in 17 games. At his size, that speaks to his limitations as an athlete.

It's tough to dunk the basketball when you dribble to the sideline, pick up your dribble, and get trapped.

 

[TEvans4Three]

I'm sorry, can you link to this site? Pretty cool info..

Of course, it is Barttorvik.com

(Will add to original post as well)

 

[stormspencer]

I think he's been solid as a recruiter and as an Xs and Os coach. His first two years the system sucked and was clearly no fun/slow. We had guys that could play faster and he would not let them go. I don't think his style will ever be super fun/fast high scoring like I'd like to see, but it's getting better.
Player wise:
Oweh - does everything pretty well, other than shoot the dang ball. That was broken before he got to OU and hasn't been fixed.
Los - Slump/lack of confidence. The guy can play, think he can be an elite passing pg/defender. Not sure he will ever be the scorer/shooter that we want him to be.
Cole - I'm a bit nervous about him.. but maybe he gets 10-12 min a game next season behind Moore. That would be good for him to learn and come in slow.
Cooper - Freak athlete, but watching him play basketball, not sure he's very good. Watch him run and move.. it's like again he's not coordinated or skilled.. Something is missing. Hopefully next year he's big time. I was so excited when we got him.
Norweather - Pure offensive guy, not athletic or strong enough. Think he's a backup at best for his whole career.(not a bad thing)
Atak - Think he is a year or two down the road guy.
Forsythe - Can shoot and score.. is he quick/athletic enough to play big mins. I believe he could get mins as a backup pg next season and then maybe take over as a soph.

We better hit on a defensive big guy, probably a guard that can go as well in transfer portal.

Regarding Oweh, I agree with Wichita and TEvans3, he has a long way to go in improving muliple facets of his game (ball-handling, shooting, team defensive awareness, etc.). The good news is that he is probably our best athlete (outside of Moore) and that is God-given and won't be going away. But he is going to need some serious time on the court this offseason (in addition to practice and scrimmages) in order to improve and refine his game. The question is....will he put in the time?

As for Los, he definitely has a confidence problem. Like Oweh, he needs to spend more of his off-time shooting in the gym (like Buddy). At the moment, I think he is an average defender at best because he seems a step slow to me and has a hard time keeping guys in front of him. The good news is that he can utilize his length as a taller guard to improve and be a better defender. But again, this is going to take deliberate practice in the offseason.

Cooper - I'm hoping that he can eventually be a star, but I have no idea how good this kid is or how good that he can be.....he never plays. I like what I see from an athletic standpoint, but I need to see him A LOT more in live action.

Northweather - I see his confidence growing and I believe he can contribute in his career, but he will never be a difference-maker. I sense that he has some intangibles that if he were to to dial into (passing, getting better at rebounding, etc.), he can be one of those guys like Tanner Groves that is very useful as a high-post player and zone buster. I don't know the he will ever be "banger" down low....I just don't see that.

 

[bearcreekfan]

Man, that is just brutal for Oweh. He truly has done nothing well other than make his 6 dunks. The fact that Waldo's usage is that low, despite being so effective, is criminal. Los also has way too much red/pink. And it's crazy that he has no made dunks in 17 games. At his size, that speaks to his limitations as an athlete.

It seems like Oweh has lost his confidence as well. He was clearly better in non-conference play, and not just with the periodic 3pt shooting. I seem to recall him finishing much better at the rim, on either side, vs. what we've seen the last few weeks (or in conf play).

 

[WichitaSooner]

It seems like Oweh has lost his confidence as well. He was clearly better in non-conference play, and not just with the periodic 3pt shooting. I seem to recall him finishing much better at the rim, on either side, vs. what we've seen the last few weeks (or in conf play).

True, but I think some of that was because it was inferior competition and athletes. It's tougher to finish when you are going up against more good athletes. My guess is he had a lot more dunks in noncon -- now, the dunks aren't there as often, and have turned into semi-contested layups.

 

[opsooner]

It's a little early to conclude, but I'd say it's more of a player development problem than a recruiting one.

That said, I have stated by desires to recruit more polished basketball players, even if that means giving up some athleticism.

It does appear that way. Copper’s athleticism shows up big in warmups but must be a reason he is not seeing the floor. Can’t say about Cole yet since he apparently redshirted.

Los at times looks like he is going to develop but the consistency is clearly lacking and it is not improving. Oweh is the athlete and not the polished player you are talking about. I thought there might be improvement there but it was apparently the noncon competition. There is room on the roster for those types of guys but you need enough polished players to go with them or you get what we are. And without Soares and Moore we would not be close to where we are.

 

[snydrosooner]

It does appear that way. Copper’s athleticism shows up big in warmups but must be a reason he is not seeing the floor. Can’t say about Cole yet since he apparently redshirted.

Los at times looks like he is going to develop but the consistency is clearly lacking and it is not improving. Oweh is the athlete and not the polished player you are talking about. I thought there might be improvement there but it was apparently the noncon competition. There is room on the roster for those types of guys but you need enough polished players to go with them or you get what we are. And without Soares and Moore we would not be close to where we are.

Limited action seen on cooper in games. But he does not look comfortable or that he Knows system. That also could come dow. To don’t make a mistake or you get pulled, so you don’t look comfortable.

 

[soonerchuck]

Northweather - I see his confidence growing and I believe he can contribute in his career, but he will never be a difference-maker. I sense that he has some intangibles that if he were to to dial into (passing, getting better at rebounding, etc.), he can be one of those guys like Tanner Groves that is very useful as a high-post player and zone buster. I don't know the he will ever be "banger" down low....I just don't see that.

Northweather seems to be painfully slow in the time between when he receives the ball until when it is released from his hand. Therefore he passes up a lot of shots that seem open because he apparently worries about getting it blocked. Lexy Keys of the OU women's basketball team has the quickest release I think i have ever seen and hits 3 pointer shots with an incredible accuracy rate. She is just silky smooth. Brady Manek also had a quick yet accurate release on his 3 pointers.

 

[BoulderSooner]