NCAA rejects Sampson's appeal >>> Rivals.com

[SoonerfanTU]

So, your first challenge was to find a big impact player which you didnt think existed. I did that, and now you want me to find a guy who went to juco who is a top 10 player in the world for that year (lottery pick)... Well, that I cant do.

But the whole point of this is to decide if you can find a really good player (college player) in junior college, and the answering is an emphatic yes. They are out there, they just recruited less and by smaller schools more often now because the big schools can recruit a similar player out of prep school and get him for four years instead of two.

Yep. The win goes to abd.

Nobody is saying you can create/sustain a program like Duke recruting that way. But you can win, and probably win fairly big, by bringing in 2-3 top JUCO's a year. Of course you need to compliment that with quality HS talent too, but that is obvious.

 

[C11]

It is really sad and pathetic the way his integrity has completely left him. If he was professional and an adult about this he would admit he screwed up and let that be that.
The fact that he is still fighting the fact that he obviously cheated whether he agrees with the rule or not says alot about his character

 

[Sid]

WWW.IDSNEWS.COM
Indiana Daily Student

More of the same from Sampson
By Frank Therber | IDS
POSTED AT 06:25 PM ON Jul. 1, 2009

http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=68831

 

[Cheno]

So, your first challenge was to find a big impact player which you didnt think existed. I did that, and now you want me to find a guy who went to juco who is a top 10 player in the world for that year (lottery pick)... Well, that I cant do.

But the whole point of this is to decide if you can find a really good player (college player) in junior college, and the answer is an emphatic yes. They are out there, they just get recruited less and by smaller schools more often now because the big schools can recruit a similar player out of prep school and get him for four years instead of two.

Where in the world did I issue a challenge to find ONE good juco player.
I said 5 all along. Of course you can find one...but still not to the level of BIG IMPACT as you are making it out to be or the level of a decade ago.
You won't find the Larry Johnson's or Steve Francis anymore. Those guys can dramatically change the complexion of a team by themselves. You can't find that anymore.
Sorry but by adding Booker Woodfox to your team you aren't automatically adding a guy that can change the entire complexion of your team like you could a decade ago. You can't build a great program by adding 2-3 jucos every year anymore. You just can't.
I'd be interested to know of the 5 so called great juco guys you named how many NCAA tournament games did they win last year?

 

[kansasooner]

:kelvin

 

[Cheno]

Yep. The win goes to abd.
Nobody is saying you can create/sustain a program like Duke recruting that way. But you can win, and probably win fairly big, by bringing in 2-3 top JUCO's a year. Of course you need to compliment that with quality HS talent too, but that is obvious.

Sure they did. The comment I replied to that since ABD has started his Juco lovefest was this

Can you imagine the hordes of juco stallions Sampson could attract to a school like Colorado? He'd have them as the second best team in the North within two seasons.

Sorry but there is not "hordes of juco stallions" out there to make this come true.
And I just don't believe you can win fairly big as you suggest bringing in 2-3 top jucos a year. If so, please let me know who's doing it. I'd be interested to see who it is.

 

[Sooner23]

Kelvin could coach circles around Pat Knight. Not a good "comparison."

 

[thebigabd]

Sorry but by adding Booker Woodfox to your team you aren't automatically adding a guy that can change the entire complexion of your team like you could a decade ago.

Booker Woodfox was the Missouri Valley Player of the Year, and an honorable mention National All American. He was the #2 three point shooter in college basketball last year. The guy hit about 50% of his 3point shots on 191 attempts, lol. He led his team to a 25-6 record. Adding the 2nd best 3 point shooter in the country will change the complexion of your team. Imagine if OU had the best 3pt shooter in the country hovering around the perimeter with Blake Griffin and Willie Warren out there...

You dont think adding an all-american and the best 3pt shooter in college basketball will change the complexion of your team? Well damn man, what the hell does then?

I'd be interested to know of the 5 so called great juco guys you named how many NCAA tournament games did they win last year?

Those 5 guys had a combined record of 109-54 last year (with 20 of those losses coming from Charlotte). Woodfox, Jarvis, Thornton, and Wilkinson played in the post-season.

Woodfox went 25-6, Wilkinson 30-5, and Thornton 27-8. 3 of the 5 guys went 82-19, and all three were the best players on their team. Two of them went to the NCAA Tournament, the other went to the NIT.

 

[thebigabd]

2005-2006
PG: Terrell Everett (All big 12)
SG: Mike Neal (Big 12 Newcomer of the Year)
SF: Al Daniels (Averaged 23 per game for Lamar, top 10 nationally in scoring)
PF: Mario Boggan (All Big 12)
PF: Taj Gray (All Big 12)

2006-2007
PG: Stephon Hannah (Missouri)- Big 12 Newcomer of the Year. All big 12.
SG: Robert Mckiver (Houston)- Averaged 23 a game. C-USA first team.
SF: Sonny Weems (Arkansas)- First Team All-SEC. Playing in NBA.
PF: Carl Landry (Purdue)- First Team Big 10. Playing in NBA.
C: Othello Hunter (Ohio State)- Played for great OSU team. On roster for the Atlanta Hawks.

2007-2008
PG: Robert Jarvis (6'0'' 180) ORU- First team. Led ORU to NCAA Tournament.
G: Booker Woodfox (6'1'' 185) Creighton- MVC Player of Year. All-American
G: Marcus Thornton (6'4'' 205) LSU- SEC Player of Year. All-American.
PF: Lamont Mack (6'7'' 230) Charlotte- All A-10. Averaged nearly 18 a game.
PF: Gary Wilkinson (6'9'' 240) Utah State- WAC Player of Year. All American.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Should I keep dominating you? Or should I stop now?

 

[Cheno]

Imagine if OU had the best 3pt shooter in the country hovering around the perimeter with Blake Griffin and Willie Warren out there...
You dont think adding an all-american and the best 3pt shooter in college basketball will change the complexion of your team? Well damn man, what the hell does then?

Again ABD, you are taking the comment I responded to and totally changing the surface of my argument. I said you can't build a team around mainly Juco's anymore. You just can't. It's not like the old days.
Now you are changing that to adding a Juco guy to go with the #1 overall pick in the draft and a lottery pick and possible top 5 pick next year.
Dude....that is a totally different argument. I agree with that one. I think you could add a juco to Blake Griffin and Willie Warren and be pretty damn good. Hell, you could add me, you and Norm to Blake and WW and we'd be pretty damn good. Come 'on man...stay on topic.
My statement was you can't take the top 5 juco players in a class and be top 4 in the Big 12 this coming year. I have yet to be convinced otherwise. And the fact it's even debateable helps prove my point that the juco's are nothing like they were a decade or two ago. You'll never see another team like UNLV made of of a ton of juco guys go that far in the tourney. It ain't going to happen. It's a whole new world now. Prep schools have killed the juco ranks.

 

[thebigabd]

If Texas Tech or Houston makes the NIT or NCAA tournament next year, will you admit you are wrong about heavy recruitment of junior college players?

 

[thebigabd]

Produce me a list of 5 juco's from last year that could finish in the top 4. A list from the year before that. You just can't do it. The talent isn't there.

You told me to produce a team of 5 jucos from different years that could finish in the top 4, and thats what I did.

 

[thebigabd]

Here is what the Houston Cougars will look like this year.... They will challenge Tulsa and Memphis for the C-USA Championship, and have a legit chance at an NCAA Tournament with 3 junior college players in their starting lineup. They will also have 3 junior college guys coming off the bench in the regular rotation.

I bet Houston, with 6 juco players, 3 in the starting lineup, makes the NCAA Tournament next year.


PG: Zamal Dixon (6'1'' 170)-junior
-Moved into the starting lineup in the second half of the season... Competed in 30 games with 13 starts with all of those coming in the final 15 games... Finished fifth on team with 5.7 points per game. Started at point guard at No. 18/19 Memphis... Finished with nine points and a steal against the Tigers... Started his second straight game at C-USA rival UCF... Dished out seven assists with only one turnover and added nine points in 26 minutes at C-USA rival SMU... Scored a game-high 23 points with three 3-pointers against C-USA rival Tulane

SG: Aubrey Coleman (6'4'' 200)-juco senior
-2009 C-USA Newcomer of the Year...2009 All-Conference USA First Team. Made an immediate impact in his first season... Team leader with 19.4 points per game and finished second with 8.2 rebounds per game... Nearly became the first pure guard in school history to lead team in rebounding... Only player in Conference USA rank to rank among the league's top-five leaders in both scoring and rebounding... Was the league leader with 2.3 steals per game... Started 32 games.

SG: Kelvin Lewis (6'4'' 190)-Auburn transfer, senior
-2009 All-Conference USA Third Team..2009 C-USA All-Defensive Team..Finished second on the team with 18.0 points per game and led the Cougars in 3-point field goals, 3-point attempts and free throw percentage... Ranked fourth in Conference USA in scoring and ranked among the league's top-10 leaders in 3-point field goal percentage, 3-point field goals per game, free throw percentage.

PF: Qa'rraan Calhoun (6'8' 215)-juco senior
-Averaged 10.2 points and 5.3 rebounds in his first season out of juco. Started 30 games in his first year. Shoots 35% (120 attempts) from the 3pt line. Second on team with 36 blocks on the year.

PF: Maurice Mcneil (6'9'' 215)-juco junior
-McNeil joined the Cougar program after spending the first two seasons at San Jacinto for head coach Scott Gernander. As a sophomore, he averaged team highs of 19.7 points and 11.7 rebounds per game on the way to being named to the All-Region XIV First Team.. "Maurice is an extremely athletic player that has an amazing wingspan. He runs the floor, is very active on the glass and can finish inside," head coach Tom Penders said. "He is perfect for what we do and what we want to do, which is run and press."..McNeil chose Houston over Arizona, Missouri, Oklahoma State and USF.

 

[Cheno]

If Texas Tech or Houston makes the NIT or NCAA tournament next year, will you admit you are wrong about heavy recruitment of junior college players?

Wow...so it's went from being a top 4 finish in the Big 12 to making the NIT.
I don't call making the NIT by recruiting juco's heavy a fair comparison what it was a decade or two ago. The original post was about Sampson being able to take a Colorado team to an upper half of the league by recruiting juco's primarily. It ain't happening anymore. The league is too good and the juco ranks are too weak.

Here is what the Houston Cougars will look like this year.... They will challenge Tulsa and Memphis for the C-USA Championship, and have a legit chance at an NCAA Tournament with 3 junior college players in their starting lineup. They will also have 3 junior college guys coming off the bench in the regular rotation.

The 3rd place team in Conference USA isn't a top 1/2 of the Big 12 type team.

 

[thebigabd]

Wow...so it's went from being a top 4 finish in the Big 12 to making the NIT.

Tech was the 11th place team in the Big 12 last year, if they got into the NIT it would show major improvement. Ya know, not every program is OU or KU and will make the NCAA Tournament every single year. That doesnt mean they dont put good players on the floor. Half of the NCAA Tournament is a joke and a lot of NIT teams deserve to be in the "big" tournament over some of those clown teams that get in.

If Tech were to go from 11th place to a higher standing and post-season play, it would show significant improvement and a lot of that would be attributed to their recruiting efforts, which are 50/50 with high school and juco guys.

 

[Cheno]

Tech was the 11th place team in the Big 12 last year, if they got into the NIT it would show major improvement. Ya know, not every program is OU or KU and will make the NCAA Tournament every single year. That doesnt mean they dont put good players on the floor. Half of the NCAA Tournament is a joke and a lot of NIT teams deserve to be in the "big" tournament over some of those clown teams that get in.

If Tech were to go from 11th place to a higher standing and post-season play, it would show significant improvement and a lot of that would be attributed to their recruiting efforts, which are 50/50 with high school and juco guys.

I totally agree. 100%. It just has nothing to do with this debate.

 

[thebigabd]

I totally agree. 100%. It just has nothing to do with this debate.

We keep going back and forth on what the debate is, lol. I am just proving there is big time college talent in junior college to be found, and you are saying you cant win by recruiting a lot of jucos.

You said:

The original post was about Sampson being able to take a Colorado team to an upper half of the league by recruiting juco's primarily. It ain't happening anymore.

Nobody has even attempted to do this since Sampson until Pat Knight at Tech, and Tom Penders is doing it at Houston.

I have proven that big time college talent is still there in juco, but what remains to be seen is if you can recruit jucos heavily and field a good team.

I think you can, and we will know more with Texas Tech and Houston as our examples.

Fair?

 

[DenverSooner]

I can prove time and again that there are big time difference makers in the juco ranks that are out there to be signed.. I just picked 5 guys from the 2007 class and put together a really good team.

It would be impossible to put together a team like that in recruiting, and you wouldnt want to because they would only have 2 years. But you can find big talent and fill any role by getting the right juco. It was true 10 years ago, and you still can today, no question.

that wing at tech was a juco and he was strong (okori or something like that).

OU's last final four team had 5 of its top 7 guys from Juco: Dietrik, Ere, McGhee, Selvy and White. Joseph Szesdrie was also a juco player. Cheno is just wrong. You can build a good team with Juco players and a few good high school recruits.

 

[Cheno]

OU's last final four team had 5 of its top 7 guys from Juco: Dietrik, Ere, McGhee, Selvy and White. Joseph Szesdrie was also a juco player. Cheno is just wrong. You can build a good team with Juco players and a few good high school recruits.

I may be wrong but nobody is doing it. Name another team doing well with 4-5 juco's in there top 7 to 8. This isn't 2002 anymore so OU's last FF4 team is meaningless in this conversation. That is my entire point. This isn't 2002. Or the 90's.

 

[Seymore Cox]

I may be wrong but nobody is doing it. Name another team doing well with 4-5 juco's in there top 7 to 8. This isn't 2002 anymore so OU's last FF4 team is meaningless in this conversation. That is my entire point. This isn't 2002. Or the 90's.

Usually Chendog doesn't know what he's talking about, but he's right on this one. Nowadays you couldn't win the SWAC, far less the big12 with the 5 best Juco players in the land. The only trend of productive juco players are those who transfer from a high major to play right away instead of sitting a year, ala Rico Pickett.