New ARENA as part of entertainment District

red recluse said:
this tif is incredibly shady and straight up rotten for norman. the lack of exact details in the final plan, and the process for how this went down and forced through really riled up a lot of people. over 11k signatures? wow. the councilors who voted yes, the mayor, the joe’s played this all wrong. the sec argument was so disingenuous and ridiculous. people do not like this tif. they do not like giving business developers our tax money over 25 years to build a pipe dream of an entertainment district. so freaking laughable.

in fact, this is going so poorly for the entertainment/business development aspect, that i really believe norman voters would be accepting of a new arena alone (no entertainment district. build the arena, businesses will come.) with a good faith effort from all sides involved. my councilwoman stated she was for an arena, but not with this version of the tif. and i couldn’t agree with her more. i think there is a market for 3-5k seat concert venue in the okc/moore/norman area. it sucks for OU basketball, i know. i want a new arena. but not when a few councilmen think have some mandate, and not when a university president and athletic director think they know better than the voters as to what is best for our city.

the mayor’s days are numbered. this was so freaking shady. well done nompton. see you at the polls.
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lol wow
 
snydrosooner said:
I have it from a board member directly that the council is upset. What I was told is it was truly an 8-1 vote for the project. Behind close doors they made deals to keep some of the members residents happy they publicly voted against but made sure it passed. They thought they would never get the signatures. This could get interesting if people start talking or behind close doors records somehow gets out like before.
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unfortunate if true. happy it’s going to a vote. can’t say i was all in, but the leaked city attorney letter raised major concerns for me.
 
red recluse said:
unfortunate if true. happy it’s going to a vote. can’t say i was all in, but the leaked city attorney letter raised major concerns for me.
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Didn't that same letter also state that City contributions are dependent on the non-arena portion also being built?
 
jdizzle34 said:
Didn't that same letter also state that City contributions are dependent on the non-arena portion also being built?
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in that they needed to be tied together? my extremely basic understanding was that the 2031 deadline was removed and so was the developer’s obligation to build anything other than the arena and parking garage.
 
It will never pass in any form that isn’t 100% financed by the university. The amount of hatred residents have for the university is insane and it’s embarrassing. I’m not saying the TIF was what should have been pushed forward, but the vehement activists who fought against it are the reason I am finally thinking of moving. I have lived in Norman for 24 years, but the opposition to any growth and the idea that the 3rd largest city in the state can stay a sleepy little college town is getting really annoying. *edit Also, following the initial surge when target came in, there has been very little development in that corridor in 20 years and there is very little chance there is enough development in the next 25 years to make up the potential the new district could bring.
 
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No way it goes to Noble. One of the alleged benefits of the current plan is being closer to OKC and people driving to the game. If(when?) it gets voted down Moore is the next best bet, would not be surprised if something is already in the works. A new arena paid for by OU is not gonna happen too much else already being funded. Guess Texas and Baylor smarter than us they somehow got this done, and the Texas one is actually on campus.
 
bob the nailer said:
No way it goes to Noble. One of the alleged benefits of the current plan is being closer to OKC and people driving to the game. If(when?) it gets voted down Moore is the next best bet, would not be surprised if something is already in the works. A new arena paid for by OU is not gonna happen too much else already being funded. Guess Texas and Baylor smarter than us they somehow got this done, and the Texas one is actually on campus.
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I agree with you it doesn't go south and we don't have funding for it without help. But saying the University of Texas and Baylor University funded their arenas isn't accurate.

The Moody Center is funded by OakView Group/Live Nation and the Moody Foundation's donation. UT's contribution is basically the land donation. No taxpayer dollars and no UT donor dollars. The real reason this even happened is because they wanted to expand the UT Medical Center. And comparing our situation and OU and Norman to the UT's donor and alumni based/influence and the 10th largest city in the U.S. is crazy. Apples to Oranges.

Likewise, Baylor had a minor investment into the Foster Arena. The City of Waco worked in partnership with Baylor (imagine that concept) as a part of a larger $700MM development and contributed about $78 MM to the project. Over $100MM came from a donation from the Foster family. There is not much left from donors and the Unversity to get to the remaining $212MM pricetag.

In both cases, outside parties and single donors were the biggest contributors. And for those comparing our facilities to OSU, the same scenario where one man gave $650MM to the university. We don't have that luxury with any of our facilities. I mean it took over 5-7 years and 3+ additional NCs to get Love's Field built.

Said it before and I'll say it again- I would prefer a new on-campus arena or major renovation to LNC. There are places to build it near center campus, around the LNC, or even near campus corner. But the appetite and support for such a site isn't there from the admin, BMDs, developers, and my guess from the survey we completed a couple of years ago, not the overwhelming support from season-ticket holders and students. And since we don't have that single donor that can give $150-$250 MM, Rock Creek and TIFs appear to be the only alternative in the foreseeable future.

We can't wait 3-5-7 years for another better idea. The need is NOW. And while this plan isn't perfect or ideal, at least it's a plan. Our basketball program can't keep waiting.
 
bob the nailer said:
No way it goes to Noble. One of the alleged benefits of the current plan is being closer to OKC and people driving to the game. If(when?) it gets voted down Moore is the next best bet, would not be surprised if something is already in the works. A new arena paid for by OU is not gonna happen too much else already being funded. Guess Texas and Baylor smarter than us they somehow got this done, and the Texas one is actually on campus.
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Those cities also respect the fact a major university is there, and will move heaven and earth to help them, if not monetarily, then with zoning and other methods. Norman, on thr other hand, seems mad at OU for existing in their little podunk, inbred hick town.

I know it isn't feasible, so I'm being facetious, but I wish OU could build in OKC. It would help the state so much. Companies love seeing large cities with big universities IN the city proper.
 
I think I said this earlier in the thread somewhere, but voting this down would be so short sighted. People that don’t want this are just against progress because they want things to remain the same. That will come back to bite them, but many of them are in an older generation and simply do not care.

I grew up in Auburn, and they had a similar situation sans the arena. They wanted to build a large outdoor shopping center called Tigertown and the city shot it down. Well, the developers went about 3 miles down the road to Opelika and built this behemoth that has exploded. Opelika has absolutely boomed since it went up and the school systems/city infrastructure are night and day compared to when I was younger. I do not understand how people can be so shortsighted. You have to spend money to make money.
 
jdizzle34 said:
Haha, what? I am not bashing OU. I am bashing the city and citizens, who constantly make life hard for OU, even though without it, this would be another skidmark between OKC and Dallas, just like Purcell and Pauls Valley.
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Some of us are both. Loyal resident of Norman, graduate of OU and basketball season ticket holder.
 
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