New ARENA as part of entertainment District

[TINY]

Probably only possible if they build it on that golf course

Moore has a lot of open space by the highway.

I wonder if ou makes a last ditch effort increasing their investment by $30mil or something? I will say that their investment feels a little light. They should be able to make that happen after a few years of sec payouts.

 

[jdizzle34]

Moore has a lot of open space by the highway.

I wonder if ou makes a last ditch effort increasing their investment by $30mil or something? I will say that their investment feels a little light. They should be able to make that happen after a few years of sec payouts.

I think it would take more than 3%. Try like, 40% or so.

 

[makila]

Moore has a lot of open space by the highway.

I wonder if ou makes a last ditch effort increasing their investment by $30mil or something? I will say that their investment feels a little light. They should be able to make that happen after a few years of sec payouts.

This is more of the conversation/question that should be asked imho.

I find it odd how many people, who don't live in Norman, are telling people in Norman what they should do. To each their own, I just find it really weird.

Some of us attended the university, stayed in Norman, work in Norman, raised our families, have another generation of OU grads, they stayed in Norman, etc. I personally even do design work for OU and OU athletic facilities and construction projects. The idea we all hate OU if we don't support this current funding structure is comical.

Why isn't the question more, what is wrong with the current proposal? Clearly some of us like OU, and like Norman. Instead so many people, who don't actually live in Norman, aren't asking productive questions that could result in moving forward with a potential compromise/agreement.

Personally, I like the concept. And I want OU to kick in more than they are. I also don't trust the city at all to execute a construction project of this size. Seriously.

To each their own, glad its going to a vote.

Moore actually doesn't have a ton of land left. A lot of their land has been built out in the last 5 years or so. They could set something aside in the area around 34th street, on the NW side of I35/S 34th St.

 

[TINY]

I think it would take more than 3%. Try like, 40% or so.

I’m not sure about that. The private investment is $800million in principal. Ou is contributing $100 million now (if memory serves) and city is financing ~$200. If ou chipped in $30mil more and city $30mil less, that is significant.

 

[jdizzle34]

I’m not sure about that. The private investment is $800million in principal. Ou is contributing $100 million now (if memory serves) and city is financing ~$200. If ou chipped in $30mil more and city $30mil less, that is significant.

Well, the $200 or so million for Norman will end up being $500 or so million, after interest and financing charges. I wish OU and the developer could make it work at $800 million (they can, I think they are just wanting to see how far they can get).

 

[sooner333]

$30mm would go a longer way when considering the finance costs. Unfortunately I don’t know if it would make a difference to the “no” folks. I think it’s vote-or-bust for them. But maybe if they redo the tif they’ll be a little less successful on a subsequent petition drive?

As someone who wants a new arena and plan to vote yes, I hope something can work out. Brute force does not appear to have worked so maybe something can be negotiated. I hope both sides can come together in good faith (but I have my doubts that’s even possible)

 

[TINY]

Well, the $200 or so million for Norman will end up being $500 or so million, after interest and financing charges. I wish OU and the developer could make it work at $800 million (they can, I think they are just wanting to see how far they can get).

Yes I’ve seen the financing projections. I would be very surprised if ou wasn’t able to pay it off well in advance of those projections. Ou could also refinance and get a better rate down the road. That number is the boogeyman to most folks but it is not set in stone by any means.

 

[jdizzle34]

Yes I’ve seen the financing projections. I would be very surprised if ou wasn’t able to pay it off well in advance of those projections. Ou could also refinance and get a better rate down the road. That number is the boogeyman to most folks but it is not set in stone by any means.

Norman is the group that would take out the loan. Not OU. OU's contribution is land, essentially. No money (because they don't have a lot of money free for a basketball arena).

 

[TINY]

Norman is the group that would take out the loan. Not OU. OU's contribution is land, essentially. No money (because they don't have a lot of money free for a basketball arena).

Yes that was a typo by me. I meant the city is financing $200mil.

 

[soonertrash77]

Haha, what? I am not bashing OU. I am bashing the city and citizens, who constantly make life hard for OU, even though without it, this would be another skidmark between OKC and Dallas, just like Purcell and Pauls Valley.

Yes F… off!

 

[BoulderSooner]

this tif is incredibly shady and straight up rotten for norman. the lack of exact details in the final plan, and the process for how this went down and forced through really riled up a lot of people. over 11k signatures? wow. the councilors who voted yes, the mayor, the joe’s played this all wrong. the sec argument was so disingenuous and ridiculous. people do not like this tif. they do not like giving business developers our tax money over 25 years to build a pipe dream of an entertainment district. so freaking laughable.

this is not remotely true ..

 

[BoulderSooner]

I think it would take more than 3%. Try like, 40% or so.

the arena is 330 mil .. OU is already paying 100 mil of that .... 30 more would be almost 10% more of the arena .. that OU is already paying almost 33% for ..

 

[jdizzle34]

the arena is 330 mil .. OU is already paying 100 mil of that .... 30 more would be almost 10% more of the arena .. that OU is already paying almost 33% for ..

I thought OU was just donating land? Not actual money.

 

[BoulderSooner]

I thought OU was just donating land? Not actual money.

no OU has a share of the arena project 100 million

 

[SoonerBounce13]

I thought OU was just donating land? Not actual money.

This is an example of the typical misinformation that people are using to be against the proposal

 

[BoulderSooner]

meant to post this the other day ..

and so the worm turns

City of Norman posts legal notice protesting entertainment district petition

Editor's note: This article was updated at 8:33 p.m. to include a statement from OU economics professor Cynthia Rogers.

www.oudaily.com

 

[MJSooner]

For a professor at a major college, Roger’s is an idiot.
“I can’t fathom why anyone who believes in Democracy would be against a public vote”

There was a public vote, so public all citizens knew the vote- by the Norman City Council, and it was approved.

Too many people, including this professor, thinks all forms of democracy is a majority rule. It is not. It is representative democracy and the people of Norman elected those city councilors to make decisions on their behalf. And if they don’t like it, vote them out. That’s how it works.

It’s not public uprising and majority rule for each issue. What’s next? They don’t like something so they sign a petition for a public vote for any and all grievances? No, they change the leadership. THAT’s how it works.

Unfortunately this is going to get delayed so long I doubt we see an area this decade. Hope I’m wrong.

 

[hoopsaustin]

For a professor at a major college, Roger’s is an idiot.
“I can’t fathom why anyone who believes in Democracy would be against a public vote”

There was a public vote, so public all citizens knew the vote- by the Norman City Council, and it was approved.

Too many people, including this professor, thinks all forms of democracy is a majority rule. It is not. It is representative democracy and the people of Norman elected those city councilors to make decisions on their behalf. And if they don’t like it, vote them out. That’s how it works.

It’s not public uprising and majority rule for each issue. What’s next? They don’t like something so they sign a petition for a public vote for any and all grievances? No, they change the leadership. THAT’s how it works.

Unfortunately this is going to get delayed so long I doubt we see an area this decade. Hope I’m wrong.

Many, if not most/all, of the founding fathers hated democracy. They called it mob/slob rule bc it eventually devolves into a mess if unchecked

 

[OklaSooners]

Ok….so is this legal notice likely to help the entertainment district to be built? What are the percentages that this district actually breaks ground at any point?

 

[steverocks35]

Many, if not most/all, of the founding fathers hated democracy. They called it mob/slob rule bc it eventually devolves into a mess if unchecked

Well, this just isn't true at all. They didn't hate democracy, if they did they would not have established one. We would have a monarchy. It's true that they were concerned about the common folk directly making laws, which is why they established our democracy the way it is. And before people say, "OMG it's a republic, not a democracy!" Yes it's a republic and it's also a democracy. It can be both things and it is. Of course we don't have a *direct* democracy, no country does, that would be impossible logistically. What we have is an indirect democracy, where the citizens elect people to vote for their interests (presumably) and establish laws. But we also have things like ballot initiatives which are absolutely a form of direct democracy. We also have a republic, which simply means we are not a monarchy, and we use an indirect democratic system. Some countries, like North Korea, are a republic but have no form of democracy whatsoever. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Republic vs. Democracy