Officiating

[Section31]

Yup...and somehow the FT disparity the first half was much greater than in the second. OU stunk up the joint Saturday, lets all move on.

Agree to an extent...the disparity only swung back towards us the last 5 minutes of the game. Remember, at one point, the ft disparity was 36-9

 

[skyvue]

All of you who dismiss (and in some cases, even mock) other posters for complaining about Saturday's officiating should save some of your get-over-its for the Dallas Morning News, which had this to say about the game:

Home cooking. Much of the game moved at a glacial pace thanks to an exorbitant amount of fouls called by this group of Big 12 referees. The group of officials became as much a part of the story as anything else with a few phantom calls and interesting decisions, typically going the way of the Wildcats. A K-State three left the shooter’s hands with the shot clock expired, but the basket counted in the middle of the second half. Ryan Spangler picked up three fouls in the first 10 minutes or so of the second half, all of which were highly questionable.​

I think we can agree that one very rarely sees officiating criticized in newspapers, especially out-of-town papers. A poster on another board said he heard the officiating criticized on ESPN, too.

 

[AdaSooner]

I have intentionally stayed out of this discussion, mainly because I don't blame the officials for our loss on Saturday. I agree with those who say that if OU had played better, we would have won despite the officiating.

Now that I have made that admission, I will offer an observation about the officials from a former official's point of view. They were an embarrassment to the profession! I hope Gary Maxwell, Kelly Self and Keith Kimble never call another OU game! Ever!

It's not always easy to avoid getting caught up in the excitement created by a large, home court crowd. But, that's exactly what they did. There were bad calls both ways, but OU got the brunt of it by a long shot. Anyone who believes that crew of officials had nothing to do with the outcome of that game needs to stick to analyzing basketball, because their ability to judge good officiating is suspect at best.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

I have intentionally stayed out of this discussion, mainly because I don't blame the officials for our loss on Saturday. I also agree with those who say that if OU had played better, we would have won despite the officiating.

Now that I have made that admission, I will offer an observation about the officials from a former official's point of view. They were an embarrassment to the profession! I hope Gary Maxwell, Kelly Self and Keith Kimble never call another OU game! Ever!

It's not always easy to avoid getting caught up in the excitement created by a large, home court crowd. But, that's exactly what they did. There were bad calls both ways, but OU got the brunt of it by a long shot. Anyone who believes that crew of officials had nothing to do with the outcome of that game needs to stick to analyzing basketball, because their ability to judge good officiating is suspect at best.

Good thoughts Ada. However, you are assuming they "got caught up in the excitement of a ..... home crowd". Maybe so, but there is honestly no way to be sure of that. I assume they are just miserable officials.

But the real problem is that the Big-12 Conference is 100% responsible for putting officials on the floor who will be effective at seeing the game is played under fair and equitable circumstances. If either of the things we are assuming are true it obviously should be known to the conference.

I believe the full blame for continued bad officiating by one official or a crew falls on the conference office and the commissioner. Unfortunately they work harder at protecting the officials than at providing good officiating and fair game conditions.

Here is the problem. No matter our assumptions, there is always the possibility that gambling interests have gotten into the mix. The major (by far) reason for the league taking extremely firm control of something like we saw is to make it clear that the games are being protected from that. There should have been a conference statement - at least about the shot clock error, and Spangler being thrown to the floor - by now and some action taken to make a clear public statement that better work by game officials is mandatory.

Now, on another point, some have been saying we could have won if we had done "this and that". That is a meaningless statement. The game is what it is. Sure, IF we had gotten 40 more rebounds, or IF we had taken 20 more 3's - and made them all, etc. we could have scored 125 and won easily. You can IF a game to death. It is what it is. You want the outcome determined by the players - no matter how they play - not by the officials.

 

[SilliSooner]

Sad to have such a long thread pertaining to whining about the officials. As WT said it makes us sound like aggies. We played like crap and deserved to lose.

Sure the officials made a couple mistakes, but our coaches and players made 10 times as many blunders as the officials. We shoot 9% from 3 in the first half which puts us behind the 8 ball but the officials are expected to be 100% accurate or they "robbed" us? Sour grapes.

We did deserve to lose, no question. But, as a basketball fan, I deserve not to have to watch games like that. College basketball has become a crappy game and needs to change the rules.

For instance, the Big 12 should adopt something like the NBA has, and have a central refereeing center where games are watched on the spot and questionable calls instantly reviewed. Flagrant 1 or flagrant 2, let the guys in the booth decide. Shoot clock violation, foot on the line, or goal tending, let the booth decide. Get the decisions out of the hands of amateurs and those easily influenced or bought off by the home crowds.

While we're at it, cut the shooting clock to 28 seconds and put in a defensive three second call.

 

[stormspencer]

Yup...and somehow the FT disparity the first half was much greater than in the second. OU stunk up the joint Saturday, lets all move on.

Agree.

 

[skyvue]

OU stunk up the joint Saturday, lets all move on.

And how about KSU, do you feel they didn't stink up the joint on Saturday? You figure their 26.5 shooting percentage was fully deserving of a win?

 

[bocabull]

Ada I'm curious. I'll give you that Spanglers 5th foul was a blown call. Other than that what call was blatantly wrong? Buddy made contact above the neck which s flagrant, the shot clock violation was impossible to call live and not subject to review, Lattins 4th foul was committed by Thomas and they just got the wrong guy, Spanglers 4th foul he was tangled up on a rebound with the guy who had the ball.

Guaranteed you could find just as many immaterial close calls that went our way.

 

[bocabull]

And how about KSU, do you feel they didn't stink up the joint on Saturday? You figure their 26.5 shooting percentage was fully deserving of a win?

Yes they deserved the win. In case you missed it they outhustled us for an offensive rebound (their 14th) and stuck a dagger game winner in our face. Then as WT pointed out Kruger brain farted and did not inbound to midcourt and immediately call timeout to setup a shot for 3. Ballgame.

 

[SilliSooner]

The fouls were ticky tack, barely touch fouls, in most cases should have been "no calls." Buddy's charge where he slides off to the side and the defender leans in? Absolutely, a no-call in most games. Jockeying for position on rebounds? Unless it's a push with two hands, most leagues would let them play. The refs couldn't handle the booing.

 

[skyvue]

Yes they deserved the win. In case you missed it they outhustled us for an offensive rebound (their 14th) and stuck a dagger game winner in our face. Then as WT pointed out Kruger brain farted and did not inbound to midcourt and immediately call timeout to setup a shot for 3. Ballgame.

So the final minute of the game is all that matters? Gotcha. The fact that officials kept KSU's 26.5%-shooting butts in the game so that they had a chance to win in the final minute doesn't factor in.

The fact that Ryan Spangler was on the bench thanks to two (more, really) ridiculous calls doesn't figure in, either. After all, how key a role could he have possibly played in those 10 minutes+ he missed?

If OU had won the game exactly as KSU did on Saturday, you and a handful of others would have said we didn't deserve to win, that no team that shoots 26.5 percent from the field deserves to win, that without all that help from the officials, we'd have lost for sure.

I could almost write your posts for you, so easy is it to imagine how you would denigrated that win if it'd happened.

 

[AltSooner33]

Ada I'm curious. I'll give you that Spanglers 5th foul was a blown call. Other than that what call was blatantly wrong? Buddy made contact above the neck which s flagrant, the shot clock violation was impossible to call live and not subject to review, Lattins 4th foul was committed by Thomas and they just got the wrong guy, Spanglers 4th foul he was tangled up on a rebound with the guy who had the ball.

Guaranteed you could find just as many immaterial close calls that went our way.

On the shot clock violation, not only did they miss the violation, he also clearly traveled to get the shot off.

 

[skyvue]

On the shot clock violation, not only did they miss the violation, he also clearly traveled to get the shot off.

What's more, I knew in live action the shot was late and so did the guys calling the game. They said so right away.

That was just one bad call, but given the onslaught of terrible officiating, it was the cherry on top of the crap cake.

The Dallas Morning News called out the officiating too, and I think you'll agree it has no reason to be biased in favor of OU. Newspapers almost never say a word about officiating, and when they do, it's usually just reporting a controversial call and even then, they rarely take sides.

Anyone who pretends the officiating wasn't awful looks really ridiculous at this point. You want to insist we should have overcome it and won anyway, that's different. (We almost did. If the official hadn't called that late touch foul -- a call we never would have gotten in the game's first 38 minutes -- we score the tying bucket and go to OT). But defending the officiating is beyond silly.

 

[bocabull]

 

[bocabull]

OMG Thomas hit Hurt in the head and it wasn't called. The refs were ROBBING KSU. lol ref whiners are hilarious.

Thankfully you don't hear this nonsense from actual players or coaches.

 

[bocabull]

On the shot clock violation, not only did they miss the violation, he also clearly traveled to get the shot off.

They didn't miss the violation. It was a fraction of a second. They are listening for the horn and no way a ref could distinguish that 1/10 of a second that could only be identified by a still frame replay. No ref can be looking at the shooters hand and the shot clock light simultaneously. Anybody who watches NBA basketball sees this all the time. Never EVER is a call that close called live.

Why it's not subject to review I don't know.

 

[AltSooner33]

They didn't miss the violation. It was a fraction of a second. They are listening for the horn and no way a ref could distinguish that 1/10 of a second that could only be identified by a still frame replay. No ref can be looking at the shooters hand and the shot clock light simultaneously. Anybody who watches NBA basketball sees this all the time. Never EVER is a call that close called live.

Why it's not subject to review I don't know.

No they missed it. And my point was even if they couldn't see that in real time, they should be able to see the clear travel. They somehow managed to not see either one.

 

[campbest]

And how about KSU, do you feel they didn't stink up the joint on Saturday? You figure their 26.5 shooting percentage was fully deserving of a win?

Both teams deserved to lose give the statistics, was not a pretty game. But when it came down to crunch time, tie game, under a minute...KSU made the two plays to win the game while OU failed to execute. In basketball, especially when you are talking about tournament games, that's the difference right there. It's why upsets happen in March and championship teams survive and advance.

 

[DenverSooner]

Ada I'm curious. I'll give you that Spanglers 5th foul was a blown call. Other than that what call was blatantly wrong? Buddy made contact above the neck which s flagrant, the shot clock violation was impossible to call live and not subject to review, Lattins 4th foul was committed by Thomas and they just got the wrong guy, Spanglers 4th foul he was tangled up on a rebound with the guy who had the ball.

Guaranteed you could find just as many immaterial close calls that went our way.

I am not Ada but Buddy beat him to the ball and got the ball clean. The KSU player hit his arm causing the arms to get tangled. I say foul on KSU. If Buddy had taken a Marcus Smart dive when his arm gets hit, who gets the foul?

Even if you disagree with me, I don't see a flagrant foul unless all contact above the shoulders is flagrant by rule. He played the ball and the guys got tangled up.

 

[DenverSooner]

They didn't miss the violation. It was a fraction of a second. They are listening for the horn and no way a ref could distinguish that 1/10 of a second that could only be identified by a still frame replay. No ref can be looking at the shooters hand and the shot clock light simultaneously. Anybody who watches NBA basketball sees this all the time. Never EVER is a call that close called live.

Why it's not subject to review I don't know.

That play did not remotely call for a still frame or even a slow motion replay. It was crystal clear. They absolutely blew that call. Late in the clock they should be paying particular attention to shot clock infraction just as the players should be aware of the clock.