OSU Committ

skyvue said:
I care what they did two years later. A "dreadful" roster of players wouldn't have achieved what they did, even with the addition of Blake.

I said it then and I'll say it again: Sampson would have gotten 19-20 wins from that group and an NIT bid at worst. So Capel comes in for some of the blame for that team's lousy season. The talent wasn't that bad. Not great, but not that bad.
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Ill admit they got better in 2 years but I'm talking about the roster for Capel's 1st year not his 3rd. The roster his 3rd season was good enough to win 30 games and get to the elite eight. Hell, they might have gone to the Final Four if they didn't have to go through Carolina. The roster his 1st year stunk and was only good enough to win 16 games regardless of who the coach was. Your argument is silly because if Sampson had been here here so would Reynolds and James.
 
KBaden145 said:
Your argument is silly because if Sampson had been here here so would Reynolds and James.
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No, it's not silly. You're misrepresenting my argument (which is ironic, given that you chastised someone else for "putting words" in your mouth).

I didn't say "If Kelvin had stayed..."; I stated that Kelvin would have gotten 19-20 wins "with that group."
 
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skyvue said:
No, it's not silly. You're misrepresenting my argument (which is ironic, given that you chastised someone else for "putting words" in your mouth).

I didn't say "If Kelvin had stayed..."; I stated that Kelvin would have gotten 19-20 wins "with that group."
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The "putting words in my mouth" you talking about is someone else. Please keep better track of the posts. I understand exactly what you are saying. Your argument is silly because there is no way to know what Sampson would have done because the roster is not the one he would have had.

Presumably, had he had to begin his first season at OU with a roster of a similar level of talent, you could say he might have won a game or 2 more, possibly. However, no matter how shiny you make a turd, it is still a turd. If Warren and Griifen don't make it to campus, that roster was not a NCAA tourney team. If you will remember, Sampson won 23 games his 1st season with a much better group of players.

Making these kind of projections are tricking. Some rosters coaches inherit are often only good for getting coaches fired. Capel's first year was devastated when the recruiting class fell apart. With the graduation and no class to replace them, that team was a shadow of what of what it should/could have been. I compare it to the talent wise to the last 2 teams OU has had, especially Capel's last team.
 
KBaden145 said:
The "putting words in my mouth" you talking about is someone else. Please keep better track of the posts.
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Um, I stated in my post that you had said it to someone else. Perhaps it's you who needs to pay more attention?

KBaden145 said:
I understand exactly what you are saying.
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You have yet to demonstrate that you do.

KBaden145 said:
Your argument is silly because there is no way to know what Sampson would have done because the roster is not the one he would have had.
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I willingly admit that I presented a hypothetical situation, and of course we can't know what would happen in a hypothetical situation. But we can offer educated guesses and considered opinions. That's what boards like this are about, for pete's sake. The question you keep attempting to impose on me -- how Sampson would have done with the 2007 squad if he'd never left, if the three players who reneged had honored their commitments to us -- is also worth discussing, but that's not the hypothetical I put forward, because my larger point is that those who claim the cupboard was bare in 2007 are letting Jeff Capel off the hook far too easily.

My own considered opinion is that Sampson is a much better coach than Capel and that there was talent enough on the 2007 team for him to put together 19-20 wins. I don't consider a team that includes AJ, Goldbold, Carter, Neal, Longar and Taylor Griffin to be "dreadful" in the talent category. I'd put those players, coached by Sampson, up against Capel and the 2010 team any day of the week and I suspect that squad would beat last year's team, too (though it'd be a tougher battle, with Kruger on the sidelines).
 
Mr.B!!! said:
I didn't say "even close" so please don't put words in my mouth.
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By Mr. B!!!, NOT ME, in response to a post by OSUFan. Again, keep up with who is posting what.

I conceded Sampson might win a few more games than Capel's with a roster full of the role players you mentioned. Not a roster I, any decent coach, or any OU basketball fan but you would call even decent. Agree to disagree.
 
How about this for a fair summation of that season: Kelvin is unquestionably a better basketball coach than Jeff Capel and it is pretty much guaranteed that he would have won more with players that he recruited and was more familiar with than Capel was. Kelvin would have undoubtedly been more successful that season because he also gets Reynolds and James into the mix. Capel did an "okay" job that first season, and that roster was not devoid of talent. Oh, and it was me that requested that words not be put into my mouth.
 
Sounds good and thanks. What I apparently should have said it was not a roster anybody would have purposely put together or not the one planned for that season due to the coaching change and the recruiting class falling apart. My original point was to compare the talent Capel started with and where he went and the talent Ford started with and what he has done. I hope we can agree Ford had a much more talented roster to start his career at O-State than Capel's did at OU.
 
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KBaden145 said:
Not a roster I, any decent coach, or any OU basketball fan but you would call even decent. Agree to disagree.
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Actually, any number of OU fans have called that roster decent. You're new here, but trust me, we've been having this discussion for years.

Every single one of those players I mentioned went on to play pro ball (with one of them getting drafted and playing briefly in the NBA and another spending time with several teams in the NBA's developmental league). You don't sign a contract to play pro ball anywhere unless you're a decent player.

It'd be interesting to know how many OU teams have had more players go pro.
 
I concede you point. I should have phrased it differently. Not the point of my original post but thanks for taking us all down memory tangent. Next time you feel the need to defend this point or the roster for that season, find a good solid tree or post to argue with.
 
By the way, I'm only new to posting here. Doesn't make my opinion wrong and yours right.
 
KBaden145 said:
By the way, I'm only new to posting here. Doesn't make my opinion wrong and yours right.
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It certainly doesn't, and I made no such claim.

But you suggested that I was the only OU fan who feels that the 2007 team had decent talent. I explained that the talent level of the 2007 squad has been discussed here for years, off and on, and it's been made clear over time that I'm far from the only poster who thinks the cupboard was not bare when Capel arrived in Norman.

KBaden145 said:
Next time you feel the need to defend this point or the roster for that season, find a good solid tree or post to argue with.
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Funny, I had the feeling that I had done just that in this thread.

Perhaps the next time you feel the need to denigrate that group of players, you'll conjure a mental picture of all the sizable paychecks they've received in return for their "dreadful" abilities.
 
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You don't think I'm defending Capel, do you? Regardless, my view of talent as it concerns OU basketball is how many are all-conference, all-American caliber, NBA type talent. I don't really care about overseas leagues. How many of those guys were that caliber of player? How many of them start on some of the better teams OU has had. It would be tough for anyone to win with that kind of talent. No all-star caliber players. Just ordinary guys, many who had to play more minutes than they should have. D-1 talent but role players, subs on decent or better teams, the kind Im used to as an OU basketball season ticket holder and fan. My view of talent is different than yours. Lots of people make money playing ball overseas.

I don't mean to be argumentative but you are treating me like just bc I recently started posting, I don't know what I'm talking about
 
I never suggested that your possibly being new to the board negated your opinion. I couldn't care less how many posts you have; I'm responding directly to what you're posting, the opinions you're expressing. I disagree with them, and I'm saying so (and providing evidence that I feel backs up my stance).

If you're going to call a group of Sooner players "dreadful" and describe the opinions of other posters as "silly," you've got to be prepared for a little blowback from those who don't agree. Grow a thicker skin, or perhaps temper your words a little.
 
I also dont care how this has been a topic. Doesn't matter. You brought it up for no good reason. This has nothing to do with my original post. Please don't concern yourself with my skin. Lets move on like I've been trying to do. We disagree and that's...ok...
 
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Mr.B!!! said:
...I'm not sure that Smart is even the level of basketball player that Willie Warren was coming into OU.
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After 2 years of Warren, I would probably take Smart, from all I've heard so far.
 
I liked that Willie Warren but I remember the one from 2009-10. Smart seems to be a better teammate, better understanding of team. We'll see.
 
Does Willie Warren's career remind anyone else of how Mo Baker's went?
 
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