OSU fans - you are still 13-14 and...

[skyvue]

Oh - wait -- you mean that Big 12 officials are wildly inconsistent, and the home team generally gets the calls?

I'm shocked to hear this new and intriguing information.

OSU had 7 free-throw attempts in it's loss to Mizzou the other night.

Welcome to the Big 12.

Sorry, but 56-18 in free throw attempts goes beyond mere home cooking. And in the Missouri game you cited? The home team had only 15 free throw attempts. Disparity is what matters, but nice try. Clearly the officials were letting both teams play in that game.

OU is -1 overall in free throw attempts in conference home games this season.

oswho, on the other hand, is +37. Take away the UT win and they too would be -1 for the season in conference games.

I wonder how many D1 games this entire season have seen one team get 56 free throws. Or how many games have seen a team be awarded 38 more free throws than its opponent.

Not many, I feel certain of that.

If I were an oswho fan (coughcough), I'd be happy with the win, sure. Any win is cause for celebration (nobody knows that better right now than an OU fan). But to dismiss the absurd role the officials played in that game is laughable.

 

[GIA Stout]

Sorry, but 56-18 in free throw attempts goes beyond mere home cooking. And in the Missouri game you cited? The home team had only 15 free throw attempts. Disparity is what matters, but nice try. Clearly the officials were letting both teams play in that game.

OU is -1 overall in free throw attempts in conference home games this season.

oswho, on the other hand, is +37. Take away the UT win and they too would be -1 for the season in conference games.

I wonder how many D1 games this entire season have seen one team get 56 free throws. Or how many games have seen a team be awarded 38 more free throws than its opponent.

Not many, I feel certain of that.

If I were an oswho fan (coughcough), I'd be happy with the win, sure. Any win is cause for celebration (nobody knows that better right now than an OU fan). But to dismiss the absurd role the officials played in that game is laughable.

Yah, it's just a big giant conspiracy to get OSU into the NIT. If you had watched the UT/OSU game you would have seen that the game was far from taken over by the officials unjustly. 20 of the FTs alone were from Page drawing the foul and 100% correct. If you have a problem with OU being -1 at home in conference play why don't you tell Lonnie to get them to play smarter, sounds like a coaching issue.

 

[badger]

Or, instead of Internet alcohol, we could break out the Internet energy drinks.

OU: YOU GUYS GET TOO MANY FREE THROWS!

OSU: YOU GUYS HAVEN'T BEATEN ANYONE!

OU: AWWWW, BOO HOO, STUCK WITH A 10-YEAR CONTRACTED LOSER COACH IN AN OVERSIZED ARENA THAT YOU CAN NEVER FILL.

OSU: AWWWW, PAYING TWO EXPENSIVE COACHES AT ONCE FOR CONSISTENTLY BAD SEASONS SINCE LOSING BLAKE TO THE PROS.

OU: YOU GUYS HAVE A LOSING OVERALL RECORD!

OSU: YOU GUYS HAVE A LOSING CONFERENCE RECORD!

OU: LON IS TWICE THE COACH TRAVIS EVER WILL BE AND WE'RE GONNA KICK YOUR ARSES FOR YEARS TO COME!

OSU: WE HAVE MORE TOP RECRUITS COMING IN AND WE'LL BEAT YOU GUYS FOR YEARS TO COME!

OU: Owww... energy drink stomachache.

OSU: Me too... might need some rest. How long till this stuff wears off?

 

[stoops4pres]

lol...

No one said the win didn't count.

But if you're going to act like that win is an indicator that you're somehow headed in the right direction (and OU is floundering) you're going to look like a fool.

That win means about as much for OSU as Texas Tech's 2009 demolition of kansas meant for them.

Had that same Mizzou team shown up to Norman or College Station, OU or A&M would have a win of their own over a top 5 team. That win wasn't about OSU, and you trying to make it about OSU is ridiculous. So yeah, it counts. But be realistic about what that game means.

This.

If we're talking about the future, give me a coach that has turned around every single college program (Kruger) over a coach that has continued to regress season-by-season (Ford). Without question.

 

[stoops4pres]

OSU beat Texas with 7 players. 5 of which are in their first season of college ball at this level.

The nucleus of Brown, Brian Williams and Michael Cobbins is going to be special. Regarding the futurGetting some depth back, Olukemi, a solid post player D. Williams and Marcus Smart coming in all of the sudden next year looks pretty good.

There has never been a season under Ford that OSU didn't improve that season and that includes this one.

I wouldn't champion the improvement from ineptitude (which Ok. State displayed early in the season), but to each his own.

 

[Dignon003]

This.

If we're talking about the future, give me a coach that has turned around every single college program (Kruger) over a coach that has continued to regress season-by-season (Ford). Without question.

Ford's 1st season at Cambellsville 16-17, Last season 23-11
His first season at Eastern Kentucky 7-19, Last season 22-9 (NCAA bid)
His first season at UMASS 13-15, Last season at UMASS 25-11

Kruger seemed to improve at Pan American, But he left Kansas St. with the same record as when he got there, Florida he had a big jump and then a big drop off, his time at Illinois looked pretty stagnant, Kruger had some good seasons at UNLV.

Both coaches average about the same number of wins over their careers...

 

[Dignon003]

I wouldn't champion the improvement from ineptitude (which Ok. State displayed early in the season), but to each his own.

So you'd rather be like OU this year and go from improved to inept?

 

[stoops4pres]

Ford's 1st season at Cambellsville 16-17, Last season 23-11
His first season at Eastern Kentucky 7-19, Last season 22-9 (NCAA bid)
His first season at UMASS 13-15, Last season at UMASS 25-11

Kruger seemed to improve at Pan American, But he left Kansas St. with the same record as when he got there, Florida he had a big jump and then a big drop off, his time at Illinois looked pretty stagnant, Kruger had some good seasons at UNLV.

Both coaches average about the same number of wins over their careers...

LOL, did you really just try to compare the two? When regarding their ability to turn around programs? You're really reaching with this one.

Not only has Kruger had more successful reclamation projects (you conveniently left off UNLV), but also has reached higher pinnacles within those projects. Primary example is him taking Florida to the Final Four, when they were previously one of the worst programs around.

Conversely, Travis Ford has won just one NCAA tournament game. Ever.

 

[Krugerfan52]

Lulz.

Whatever makes you feel better.

One team has beaten two upper-division Big 12 teams, including a top 5 team.

The other lost to the worst team in the conference... a team that will likely only win 1 conference game all year.

Clearly the second team is the one "going in the right direction."

As much as it pains me, I have to agree with this. I think Ford is a total jerk and Kruger is a nice guy, but after a tough start OSU has continued to improved and started winning games. OU started with the easiest non-conference scheduled in 20 yrs and gave fans false hope and now has shown to be as bad or worse than the past 2 years. If we had played OSU's non-conference schedule we would likely be 10-16 right now. That's reality.

 

[Krugerfan52]

As for comparing Kruger and Ford resume, there is no comparison. Kruger has had the better career by far, but Ford is doing a better job in 2012.

 

[stoops4pres]

So you'd rather be like OU this year and go from improved to inept?

Did I say that?

I just find it humorous to champion a coach improving a team that was so pathetic at the beginning of the season... Of course they are going to improve when there's nowhere to go but up.

Kruger's team has done about as much as I've expected this season, especially given Newell's departure. I'll refrain from criticizing him when he is fielding a team of his own players. I do know that I won't be employing any spin jobs if Kruger is fielding a team that is fighting to obtain a .500 record in his fourth season as coach (and has continued to regress by a season-by-season basis). But again, that's just my take.

 

[HoHum]

This.

If we're talking about the future, give me a coach that has turned around every single college program (Kruger) over a coach that has continued to regress season-by-season (Ford). Without question.

Looking at his career numbers, I'd say there are only two places where there it is obvious he has "turned around" the program. UNLV and I suppose UT-Pan American, but if you give Kruger credit for one good (20-8) season there, you have to give Ford the exact same credit for getting EKU from a program that had won 19 games in three years under the previous coach, to the tournament in Ford's 5th season there.

Kruger's 4th (and final) season at KSU, he had a worse record than his first season, and the worst record overall of his four years there. He was an improvement on Jack Hartman's last years, but once again his 4th season was worst than his first, which shouldn't be the case, right?

At Florida, he had his worst season of his 6 there in his final year, and of course it was obviously worse than his first season. In fact, besides the year he took Florida to the Final Four, he was really pretty lackluster at Florida, with 0 NCAA tournament wins in the other 5 years there. (And, to circumvent any other future posts, I realize how impressive a Final Four is, and how much slack it earns you.)

At Illinois, he did marginally better, in the regular season than Lou Henson had in Henson's last 4 years at Illinois, and slightly better in the NCAA tournament, with 3 tournament victories in 4 years, and 3 overall appearances in the tournament.. (Henson had 3 tournament appearances and one tournament victory in his last 4 years at Illinois). To call it a "turnaround" would be completely false, in my opinion.

He did accomplish what I would consider a turnaround at UNLV. Given the drought they had hit since Tarkanian had left, and 4 NCAA appearances in his last 5 years.

Now, I have no clue of each programs individual trials and tribulations, did Kruger take over sanction ridden teams, I have no idea. But, just looking at the surface numbers (thanks, Wikipedia!), I don't see how one could say, "(He) has turned around every single college program."

 

[hoopsaustin]

Our pile stinks less and is starting to dry up.

My gosh I hate life... We are both worse than ORU......

 

[stoops4pres]

but if you give Kruger credit for one good (20-8) season there, you have to give Ford the exact same credit for getting EKU from a program that had won 19 games in three years under the previous coach, to the tournament in Ford's 5th season there.

I didn't discredit Ford's previous tenures. Just that there isn't really a comparison between the two when discussing their ability to turn around programs.

Kruger's 4th (and final) season at KSU, he had a worse record than his first season, and the worst record overall of his four years there. He was an improvement on Jack Hartman's last years, but once again his 4th season was worst than his first, which shouldn't be the case, right?

Kruger was the only coach to take Kansas State to the NCAA Tournament his first four years. There was minimal regression, but nothing to the extent that Ford has seen when comparing his tenure at Oklahoma State. I'd argue Kruger left K-State in better shape than when he came in. Hypothetically if Ford left today, that would be the complete opposite.

At Florida, he had his worst season of his 6 there in his final year, and of course it was obviously worse than his first season. In fact, besides the year he took Florida to the Final Four, he was really pretty lackluster at Florida, with 0 NCAA tournament wins in the other 5 years there. (And, to circumvent any other future posts, I realize how impressive a Final Four is, and how much slack it earns you.)

I'd be interested to see what your take on this would be if it were reversed, and it was Ford that took a team to the Final Four. Obviously we don't know that answer because Ford has never come close to reaching the Final Four, but it'd be interesting to see what that view would be if he did. What I know is that Florida was in an abhorrent state before he went there, so even if he had just one fantastic season there that still is a remarkable feat. Seems like that should qualify as turning around a program to me.

At Illinois, he did marginally better, in the regular season than Lou Henson had in Henson's last 4 years at Illinois, and slightly better in the NCAA tournament, with 3 tournament victories in 4 years, and 3 overall appearances in the tournament.. (Henson had 3 tournament appearances and one tournament victory in his last 4 years at Illinois). To call it a "turnaround" would be completely false, in my opinion.

Now, I have no clue of each programs individual trials and tribulations, did Kruger take over sanction ridden teams, I have no idea. But, just looking at the surface numbers (thanks, Wikipedia!), I don't see how one could say, (He) has turned around every single college program."

Okay, an argument can be made that he turned around almost every program he has coached. . Pretty impressive when you consider the quantity of teams he has coached.

Bottom line, based on past trends I will gladly take Kruger to run a program over Ford. The results clearly indicate that. You can argue semantics of what constitutes "turning around a team", but the fact of the matter is that it is a complete reach to say Ford and Kruger are basically on the same level in that regard.

 

[HoHum]

And speaking of turnarounds, my definition of the word would mean that he improved the program for the NEXT coach as well. I couldn't find UT-PA's record after Kruger left (admittedly, I didn't look all that hard).

But, here are the two seasons at each program following Kruger's departure:

Kansas State - Dana Altman (29-29) (8-20).
Florida - Billy Donovan (27-32) (11-21)
Illinois - Bill Self (53-17) (24-8)

Dave Rice at UNLV is having a good season, so credit to Kruger for leaving him a solid base of talent.

Self at Illinois obviously had a lot of success, and I imagine with a pretty big chunk of Kruger recruited players, but the other two really struggled their first two seasons, and Donovan and Altman are two good basketball coaches.

I think Kruger is a very good coach, bordering on great, but to act as if he is some miracle worker for turning programs around seems a bit of an exaggeration.

Edit - Didn't see stoops reply before I made this post, so don't take this as a response. More of an addendum to my previous post.

 

[oSuJeff97]

I miss when we argued about who would get the higher seed and/or advance further in the NCAA Tournament.

:facepalm

 

[WTSooner]

And speaking of turnarounds, my definition of the word would mean that he improved the program for the NEXT coach as well. I couldn't find UT-PA's record after Kruger left (admittedly, I didn't look all that hard).

But, here are the two seasons at each program following Kruger's departure:

Kansas State - Dana Altman (29-29) (8-20).
Florida - Billy Donovan (27-32) (11-21)
Illinois - Bill Self (53-17) (24-8)

Dave Rice at UNLV is having a good season, so credit to Kruger for leaving him a solid base of talent.

Self at Illinois obviously had a lot of success, and I imagine with a pretty big chunk of Kruger recruited players, but the other two really struggled their first two seasons, and Donovan and Altman are two good basketball coaches.

I think Kruger is a very good coach, bordering on great, but to act as if he is some miracle worker for turning programs around seems a bit of an exaggeration.

Edit - Didn't see stoops reply before I made this post, so don't take this as a response. More of an addendum to my previous post.

I don't understand what this proves? Every coach, even the good ones, are going to have a few seasons over time that are rebuilding years. If they happen to leave before that, you view that as some kind of negative? It also completely ignores any players that transfer out b/c their coach left, and the fact that maybe the incoming coach just didn't get the job done. Simply looking at records in this fashion proves next to nothing IMO.

 

[stoops4pres]

And speaking of turnarounds, my definition of the word would mean that he improved the program for the NEXT coach as well. I couldn't find UT-PA's record after Kruger left (admittedly, I didn't look all that hard).

But, here are the two seasons at each program following Kruger's departure:

Kansas State - Dana Altman (29-29) (8-20).
Florida - Billy Donovan (27-32) (11-21)
Illinois - Bill Self (53-17) (24-8)

Dave Rice at UNLV is having a good season, so credit to Kruger for leaving him a solid base of talent.

Self at Illinois obviously had a lot of success, and I imagine with a pretty big chunk of Kruger recruited players, but the other two really struggled their first two seasons, and Donovan and Altman are two good basketball coaches.

I think Kruger is a very good coach, bordering on great, but to act as if he is some miracle worker for turning programs around seems a bit of an exaggeration.

Edit - Didn't see stoops reply before I made this post, so don't take this as a response. More of an addendum to my previous post.

I could be wrong, but I don't recall anyone on this thread proclaiming Kruger to be a "miracle worker". I know I didn't... I just said I'd rather have him running OU's program than Ford. And I think past evidence supports that. Additionally I disagreed with the ridiculous statement that Kruger and Ford's past achievements (particularly the extent to the turnaround jobs they made) are on par with one another. Because it isn't up for comparison.

 

[stoops4pres]

I miss when we argued about who would get the higher seed and/or advance further in the NCAA Tournament.

:facepalm

Haha, true that. Times have changed, hopefully it'll just be temporary.

 

[DenverSooner]

I miss when we argued about who would get the higher seed and/or advance further in the NCAA Tournament.

:facepalm

I think next season that will be the debate again. I really think OU is going to be a lot better next season.