OT: Football Talk

[Boom Soon]

I doubt it will be a blowout but I also doubt OU will win. The Seth Litrell hire was a baaaaad move. But, I think Venables will get one more year to fix it.

Texas- 27
OU-13

 

[CoachTalk]

I doubt it will be a blowout but I also doubt OU will win. The Seth Litrell hire was a baaaaad move. But, I think Venables will get one more year to fix it.

Texas- 27
OU-13

lol. You think bv is on the hot seat?

 

[Boom Soon]

lol. You think bv is on the hot seat?

Not currently. Let’s see how this year plays out. Another 6-6 season and he definitely will be.

 

[Boom Soon]

I don’t disagree with you on most these points. But I do worry that if we don’t turn things around offensively and become a team that is realistically in contention for playoff berths, recruits may shy away from us. If we end up something like 7-5 this season, that will be two of three years that we have been a nonfactor nationally. We play the same conference schedule next season, and I don’t see us closing the gap on the teams at the very top of the league. Too many seasons like that will make it a lot tougher to convince players to come to Norman.

NIL can make up the difference though. And OU football has NIL.

 

[Boom Soon]

If this defense ends up in the 20-30 range, which is certainly not elite, I'm still incredibly encouraged. We'll lose key guys like Stutsman and Bowman, but I don't see this defense dropping off. Venables' LB development is the least questionable thing since he took over, and I feel great about Bowen and RSJ at safety. The DL should be drastically improved over the next 1-2 years as guys like Stone, Okoye, and Smith join fellow freshman Jaden Jackson, who has looked like our best DL at times.

Absolutely agree. The defense is back. It’s awesome to see. Now, Venables just needs to go out and get a good OC. He nailed the DC hire so I have faith.

 

[BCSooners]

Lebby was the hottest commodity as OC in the country, and he just so happened to have OU ties. I don't like hiring guys just because they have OU ties, but when they have the resume, I'm all about it We were top 25 in points per game both years including #3 in his final year, and he went on to land an SEC HC gig. Lebby really frustrated me at times, but it's kinda hard to pretend he was truly bad based on the previous sentence. I don't believe we truly had a top 3 offense last year, but we definitely had a top 25 offense overall during his tenure. Based on the way our defense has played thus far, if we had a top 25 offense this year, we'd be a lock for the playoffs and potentially even in contention to win the SEC. The former KU OC that Wichita is clamoring for above isn't even in the top 25 this year. Granted, he's obsessed with KU, so that's immediately where his brain always goes to.

In our two losses, our defense made crucial stops late that should have clinched the game had the offense done it's job on the final possessions, so I wasn't sad to see Lebby go. If the defense had done it's job earlier in the game, though, it wouldn't have ever come down to that. The offense was absolutely not the problem during Venables' first two seasons (outside of the 1.5 games QB1 was down). It was our defensive shortcomings, which were all too familiar over the past 15 years. If our defense continues to play like it has thus far, the turnaround in 2.5 years is nothing short of heroic. It's not easy convincing star defensive players to come play for a program that hasn't had an elite defense in their lifetime. It will be much easier moving forward.

Thus far, the Littrell hire seems like a disaster. It's not definitive by any means at this point, though. It's kinda hard to put up big numbers with a freshman QB, a bad OL, and your top 5 WRs all out. I was all for the Littrell hire at the time, especially given the continuity and keeping Arnold/Hawkins in the fold (but hated the JJF promotion). I still think that was important, though perhaps I had my excitement for Arnold and Hawkins flipped. I'm leaning strongly toward replacing Littrell at the end of the season, but he was dealt a really, really bad hand. I want to see what he can do with Hawkins and a few healthy WRs (Burks at least). Prioritizing Gabriel over Arnold seems to have been a massive mistake, but it's one we all favored.

Lebby was just so bad at clock management. I think 12 year olds playing Madden could've done a better job in that area. I also didn't like Lebby with the ties to Briles and how he downplayed what Briles did. But yes last year was a really good offense as Gabriel made a big jump from the previous year. Maybe I'm wrong on Littrell and he just needs an offensive line & the receiving injuries has been just crazy. But it's insane how everyone at home and the announcers are just ripping him about not moving the pocket & to throw more screens to cover up the OLs deficiency.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Lebby was just so bad at clock management. I think 12 year olds playing Madden could've done a better job in that area. I also didn't like Lebby with the ties to Briles and how he downplayed what Briles did. But yes last year was a really good offense as Gabriel made a big jump from the previous year. Maybe I'm wrong on Littrell and he just needs an offensive line & the receiving injuries has been just crazy. But it's insane how everyone at home and the announcers are just ripping him about not moving the pocket & to throw more screens to cover up the OLs deficiency.

The other thing that strikes me (and it's not an original thought, even Gabe and Teddy, who are usually reluctant to criticize our coaches, have said this) is that it doesn't seem like there is anything we do well offensively. Run game is awful. I realize poor line play is a factor, but they don't do anything creative with their schemes. And the passing game, even when Burks was healthy, had no downfield threat. We heard all spring and summer about how fast and dynamic Burks was, and yet we rarely threw him the ball more than a few yards downfield. Opposing defenses don't go into a game against us having to worry about any specific thing that they have to account for.

And like you say -- if the personnel is lacking due to injuries and inadequate talent, it makes it even more important to do the things you mentioned. Do our coaches even know that running back screens are legal?

As for time management, I think a lot of that falls on Brent. I don't expect him to call plays, but the head coach needs to be smart enough to say, hey, we are up two scores in the fourth quarter, maybe this isn't the time to snap the ball with 20 seconds on the play clock for an entire drive. I also think Brent is slow to make decisions. There are situations where, by the time he decides whether to go for it on fourth down, the play clock is already so low that it makes it hard to get a play off. I will never forget sitting in the rain in Lawrence last year when he used two timeouts before punts because we didn't have 11 guys on the field. And then there was the debacle in the same game when he had Trace Ford in position to field a kickoff going into a strong wind -- wouldn't you know, he fumbled and KU took over at our 20 yard line.

 

[Eielson]

Lebby was just so bad at clock management. I think 12 year olds playing Madden could've done a better job in that area. I also didn't like Lebby with the ties to Briles and how he downplayed what Briles did. But yes last year was a really good offense as Gabriel made a big jump from the previous year. Maybe I'm wrong on Littrell and he just needs an offensive line & the receiving injuries has been just crazy. But it's insane how everyone at home and the announcers are just ripping him about not moving the pocket & to throw more screens to cover up the OLs deficiency.

I had plenty of gripes with Lebby, and I wasn't even slightly bummed when he took a job elsewhere. I just don't support the idea at all that Venables will never hire an OC capable of competing at the highest level when we've ended every season in the top 25 in offensive PPG. I have to imagine that streak ends this year, but it's a huge overstatement that some are too willing to make. Yes, he took over for Riley, who had a great offensive tenure, but there wasn't much carryover to build off of when he emptied out the entire QB room and let all of our top WR recruits leave mid-season.

Until this point, the real question had been if Venables could fix the defense. If he coaches here 10 years and has comparable defenses to what he had at Clemson, we absolutely will win #8 under him. That was the real question as we fumbled through two horribly dissapointing defensive years. We may suffer through some bad offensive years, but OU's OC position is one of the most prestigious non-HC positions in all of college football, and there are plenty of brilliant minds that would love to pair with a great defense. He'll get it right a couple times.

 

[Eielson]

I don’t disagree with you on most these points. But I do worry that if we don’t turn things around offensively and become a team that is realistically in contention for playoff berths, recruits may shy away from us. If we end up something like 7-5 this season, that will be two of three years that we have been a nonfactor nationally. We play the same conference schedule next season, and I don’t see us closing the gap on the teams at the very top of the league. Too many seasons like that will make it a lot tougher to convince players to come to Norman.

I think OU's brand is way too big to be lost within a few seasons, especially on offense. It's almost impossible to not see a former OU QB in an NFL highlight on Sundays with Baker, Kyler, Jalen, and to a lesser extent Caleb. Even Rattler is starting this week. Most of that is the Riley era, but our QB play has spanned back to Leach in the late 90s. We've also got the best LT, RT, and C in the league right now. Some could argue we have the best WR in the game. We have several RBs still playing and one of the best of all-time isn't too far retired. Our worst position is probably TE, and Mark Andrews is top 10.

7-5 in the SEC isn't going to kill us, especially not for one year. 9-3 is almost a lock for the playoffs, as it seems you only need to finish top 6 in conference to be a playoff lock. 8-4 might even get us in the discussion. Our offense will get a pass this year, given that we have a freshman at QB. As long as our defense is rolling, there is going to be optimism. We've seen how things went with guys like Rattler and Knight -- if Hawkins shows any signs of improvement, he's going to be discussed as a preseason Heisman finalist whether it's warranted or not. I think it would take about 5 seasons to lose our reputation as a high-octane offensive NFL-producing machine. Most of the above NFL guys would be starting to fall out of the spotlight around that time.

 

[BCSooners]

I had plenty of gripes with Lebby, and I wasn't even slightly bummed when he took a job elsewhere. I just don't support the idea at all that Venables will never hire an OC capable of competing at the highest level when we've ended every season in the top 25 in offensive PPG. I have to imagine that streak ends this year, but it's a huge overstatement that some are too willing to make. Yes, he took over for Riley, who had a great offensive tenure, but there wasn't much carryover to build off of when he emptied out the entire QB room and let all of our top WR recruits leave mid-season.

Until this point, the real question had been if Venables could fix the defense. If he coaches here 10 years and has comparable defenses to what he had at Clemson, we absolutely will win #8 under him. That was the real question as we fumbled through two horribly dissapointing defensive years. We may suffer through some bad offensive years, but OU's OC position is one of the most prestigious non-HC positions in all of college football, and there are plenty of brilliant minds that would love to pair with a great defense. He'll get it right a couple times.

I agree with this. I think some donors will pony up to get some OL. Again the receiver injuries are just crazy. I like BV & want him to be the HC, but he has made some loyalty hires that have been bad. I’d like to see that stop.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I think OU's brand is way too big to be lost within a few seasons, especially on offense. It's almost impossible to not see a former OU QB in an NFL highlight on Sundays with Baker, Kyler, Jalen, and to a lesser extent Caleb. Even Rattler is starting this week. Most of that is the Riley era, but our QB play has spanned back to Leach in the late 90s. We've also got the best LT, RT, and C in the league right now. Some could argue we have the best WR in the game. We have several RBs still playing and one of the best of all-time isn't too far retired. Our worst position is probably TE, and Mark Andrews is top 10.

7-5 in the SEC isn't going to kill us, especially not for one year. 9-3 is almost a lock for the playoffs, as it seems you only need to finish top 6 in conference to be a playoff lock. 8-4 might even get us in the discussion. Our offense will get a pass this year, given that we have a freshman at QB. As long as our defense is rolling, there is going to be optimism. We've seen how things went with guys like Rattler and Knight -- if Hawkins shows any signs of improvement, he's going to be discussed as a preseason Heisman finalist whether it's warranted or not. I think it would take about 5 seasons to lose our reputation as a high-octane offensive NFL-producing machine. Most of the above NFL guys would be starting to fall out of the spotlight around that time.

I think things change much faster than that these days. And high school kids are smart enough to realize that none of the offensive success came under Brent. We had our fewest combine invites in ages last season and I think this season will be the same.

As for the playoff, my guess is that in the SEC, 9-3 could get you in the discussion depending on your schedule. I don’t think 8-4 will ever get it done unless you are Georgia or Bama and get the benefit of the doubt. Late in the Bama game today, the TV guys were speculating that a loss could knock Bama out since it would be two losses to unranked teams. So who you beat/lose to will always play into it.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Two minutes. That’s how long it took to waste a timeout. Every. Damn. Game. We can’t go a week without Brent screwing up game management. Truly incredible.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Defense is looking elite. Excellent tackling. And we even manage to have 11 guys on the field most the time. Can’t expect the head coach to actually accomplish that every play.

 

[snydrosooner]

I think things change much faster than that these days. And high school kids are smart enough to realize that none of the offensive success came under Brent. We had our fewest combine invites in ages last season and I think this season will be the same.

As for the playoff, my guess is that in the SEC, 9-3 could get you in the discussion depending on your schedule. I don’t think 8-4 will ever get it done unless you are Georgia or Bama and get the benefit of the doubt. Late in the Bama game today, the TV guys were speculating that a loss could knock Bama out since it would be two losses to unranked teams. So who you beat/lose to will always play into it.

On combine invites. Defense will be all over the place at the combine. Offense, most of the possible combine invites are out injured. They could still get invited but most will wait for pro day if injured.

 

[WichitaSooner]

On combine invites. Defense will be all over the place at the combine. Offense, most of the possible combine invites are out injured. They could still get invited but most will wait for pro day if injured.

lol who do you think will be invited from the defense? A couple obvious answers but beyond that, who? As for the offense, we have no lineman or RBs or TEs even in the mix. At WR, for all the talk about the guys who are hurt, how many of them have actually accomplished anything in college?

 

[Eielson]

lol who do you think will be invited from the defense? A couple obvious answers but beyond that, who? As for the offense, we have no lineman or RBs or TEs even in the mix. At WR, for all the talk about the guys who are hurt, how many of them have actually accomplished anything in college?

For the defense, it's more about who doesn't get a look from the NFL than who does. The defense is in a better place.

As far as the WRs, Burks was the top transfer portal WR in the country. Nic has accomplished plenty on the field when healthy, which hasn't been enough. Andrew was a clear WR1 until injury. Farooq was arguably the most accomplished WR4 in the country. But for Gibson...yeah, I'll agree he hasn't done anything yet.

I agree with the OL being in shambles. I think Tatum is an NFL back. Sawchuck isn't healthy and Barnes needs a supporting cast to truly know what he can do. He has looked more explosive at times this year, but he has nowhere to run.

 

[WichitaSooner]

For the defense, it's more about who doesn't get a look from the NFL than who does. The defense is in a better place.

As far as the WRs, Burks was the top transfer portal WR in the country. Nic has accomplished plenty on the field when healthy, which hasn't been enough. Andrew was a clear WR1 until injury. Farooq was arguably the most accomplished WR4 in the country. But for Gibson...yeah, I'll agree he hasn't done anything yet.

I agree with the OL being in shambles. I think Tatum is an NFL back. Sawchuck isn't healthy and Barnes needs a supporting cast to truly know what he can do. He has looked more explosive at times this year, but he has nowhere to run.

So you think at least six OU defenders will get invited to this year’s combine? I’ll take that bet right now.

As for the WRs, at most one of those guys would be invited.

 

[snydrosooner]

So you think at least six OU defenders will get invited to this year’s combine? I’ll take that bet right now.

As for the WRs, at most one of those guys would be invited.

It actually all depends on who goes pro. Last year would have had Stutsman and Ford at the combine if they decided to go. This year I don't think Ford will get the invite, but a couple of the transfer D-line will, if they decide to go pro. I would say 5 defense will get invite. And like mentioned before Burks and Faroog would get invite.

 

[WichitaSooner]

It actually all depends on who goes pro. Last year would have had Stutsman and Ford at the combine if they decided to go. This year I don't think Ford will get the invite, but a couple of the transfer D-line will, if they decide to go pro. I would say 5 defense will get invite. And like mentioned before Burks and Faroog would get invite.

Trace Ford?!? Zero chance he would have been invited last year. Less than zero. As for Farooq, he was probably public enemy number one among OU fans by the end of last season. Apparently his stock is rising in people’s eyes by not playing.

This program is in serious trouble whether people want to admit it or not. Texas played poorly today. Ewers looked hurt and/or uncertain, yet they blew us out because our offense is simply atrocious, our defense couldn’t tackle when the game was still on the line, and our coach continues to screw up basic game management issues week after week. The offense will never be fixed unless Brent hires a competent OC, but even that won’t fix the game management stuff because that lies at the feet of the head coach.

 

[Boom Soon]

The game management stuff is annoying but it’s not make or break. Is it a problem? Yea. But his biggest problem right now is the awful hire of SL. It is the worst offense I’ve ever seen from a major collegiate level. I’m of the camp he needs to fire SL atleast to give the impression he is trying to fix the problem. It truly cannot get worse.