OT: Football Talk

If Venables goes 6-6 this year I expect his seat to be warm. I don't want him to clean house on offense but Littrell & Finley have to go. If they let go of 1-2 more I'd be okay with that too. I do disagree whoever said Bedenbough needs to go. This line is horrible but that's lack of talent, I thought they were insanely improved against Texas. Still not good, but improved.
I don't see any position group where we are well coached offensively. The RBs have been bad since Gray left. Poor line play doesn't help, but none of the backs get extra yards or show any burst. Tatum has talent, but people like Gabe who know the offense have said that he makes more mental mistakes than any player they have seen. The line has been substandard for multiple years now, and none of them seem to improve year to year. Bill shouldn't get a free pass because we had great lines a few years ago. The WRs come with lots of hype but little production. And obviously we have no one on staff who can coach quarterbacks.
 
I don't see any position group where we are well coached offensively. The RBs have been bad since Gray left. Poor line play doesn't help, but none of the backs get extra yards or show any burst. Tatum has talent, but people like Gabe who know the offense have said that he makes more mental mistakes than any player they have seen. The line has been substandard for multiple years now, and none of them seem to improve year to year. Bill shouldn't get a free pass because we had great lines a few years ago. The WRs come with lots of hype but little production. And obviously we have no one on staff who can coach quarterbacks.
I've noticed OU's line get better throughout the season every year. The WR's would be great if the starting 5 wouldn't have got hurt, even then the backups have done solid given they're the 6-8 guys. Sawchuk was solid last year & Barnes has looked solid this year, but there's no O-Line or threat to pass. QB has been bad this year, TE has been bad the last 2 years.
 
I've noticed OU's line get better throughout the season every year. The WR's would be great if the starting 5 wouldn't have got hurt, even then the backups have done solid given they're the 6-8 guys. Sawchuk was solid last year & Barnes has looked solid this year, but there's no O-Line or threat to pass. QB has been bad this year, TE has been bad the last 2 years.
I think that's pure speculation on the receivers. Even Burks. He was healthy for three games and never caught a pass more than 10 yards downfield. Anderson has been good when healthy but he is never healthy for more than a few games it seems. Farooq had ball security issues last year. Anthony was promising before he got hurt, but apparently isn't going to be back to that level. And what the hell is going on with Thompson? The guy can fly but is never targeted downfield. Either he can't get open, the QBs/coaches don't trust him, or we are just too stupid to get him the ball. And at RB, OU should be more than solid. Neither of those guys makes defenders miss or gains extra yards. You can turn on just about any game around the country and find guys who are more explosive and get more out of runs. As for the line, if they make minimal progress during the season, it is mainly because the bar is set so low the first few games. Even in years where we don't have injury issues, Bill seems to spend weeks rotating guys. That is an area where you need continuity, not a revolving door. I am not always a big fan of Gabe, but he clearly knows about line play, and it seems like every week on the pod, he mentions the same technique issues over and over. Guys not using their hands well, not playing with any force, etc. This has been a theme for three seasons now. At some point, that falls on Bill.
 
I think that's pure speculation on the receivers. Even Burks. He was healthy for three games and never caught a pass more than 10 yards downfield. Anderson has been good when healthy but he is never healthy for more than a few games it seems. Farooq had ball security issues last year. Anthony was promising before he got hurt, but apparently isn't going to be back to that level. And what the hell is going on with Thompson? The guy can fly but is never targeted downfield. Either he can't get open, the QBs/coaches don't trust him, or we are just too stupid to get him the ball. And at RB, OU should be more than solid. Neither of those guys makes defenders miss or gains extra yards. You can turn on just about any game around the country and find guys who are more explosive and get more out of runs. As for the line, if they make minimal progress during the season, it is mainly because the bar is set so low the first few games. Even in years where we don't have injury issues, Bill seems to spend weeks rotating guys. That is an area where you need continuity, not a revolving door. I am not always a big fan of Gabe, but he clearly knows about line play, and it seems like every week on the pod, he mentions the same technique issues over and over. Guys not using their hands well, not playing with any force, etc. This has been a theme for three seasons now. At some point, that falls on Bill.
If you think it's pure speculation I don't know what to tell you. Anthony was great, Anderson was really good, Farooq is frustrating but is really talented, Gibson looked really good in the spring game. Even Burks? Doesn't even warrant a response. Even when they showed a wide angle against Texas the receivers were getting open, but Hawkins constantly missed guys. The running backs are getting hit as soon as they touch the ball, I guess Ollie Gordon forgot how to play running back. It has not been the theme for three seasons, the last 2 seasons they've struggled at the beginning of the season then turned pretty good by the end. You'd like for it to be better of course, but I don't think Bill is an issue at all.
 
If you think it's pure speculation I don't know what to tell you. Anthony was great, Anderson was really good, Farooq is frustrating but is really talented, Gibson looked really good in the spring game. Even Burks? Doesn't even warrant a response. Even when they showed a wide angle against Texas the receivers were getting open, but Hawkins constantly missed guys. The running backs are getting hit as soon as they touch the ball, I guess Ollie Gordon forgot how to play running back. It has not been the theme for three seasons, the last 2 seasons they've struggled at the beginning of the season then turned pretty good by the end. You'd like for it to be better of course, but I don't think Bill is an issue at all.
The spring game? Really? If every one of our guys who allegedly looked good in spring games and practices actually lived up to the hype, we would be the best offense ever. Before last season, I distinctly remember talk of how great our running backs were, including Hicks. Dude never sees the field. As for Farooq, talented doesn't mean good. There are all sorts of players in every sport who have talent but never put it together.

Our backs don't always get hit right away. They have their share of chances to make guys miss one-on-one and they never do. It's college football, not high school. Backs need to make the right cuts, and they need to be able to make the one unblocked defender miss. Sure, they would have more success with better line play, but they also aren't doing their part very well. Ollie Gordon is a different story because (a) he has proven how good he is, and (b) he has clearly been at the top of every team's scouting report since last season. I don't think teams playing OU have planned for months to shut down Barnes.

And I guess I don't think the line playing ok for a few games at the tail end of the season is acceptable. It's a 12-game season. You can't spend the first 7 games trying to put things together.
 
The spring game? Really? If every one of our guys who allegedly looked good in spring games and practices actually lived up to the hype, we would be the best offense ever. Before last season, I distinctly remember talk of how great our running backs were, including Hicks. Dude never sees the field. As for Farooq, talented doesn't mean good. There are all sorts of players in every sport who have talent but never put it together.

Our backs don't always get hit right away. They have their share of chances to make guys miss one-on-one and they never do. It's college football, not high school. Backs need to make the right cuts, and they need to be able to make the one unblocked defender miss. Sure, they would have more success with better line play, but they also aren't doing their part very well. Ollie Gordon is a different story because (a) he has proven how good he is, and (b) he has clearly been at the top of every team's scouting report since last season. I don't think teams playing OU have planned for months to shut down Barnes.

And I guess I don't think the line playing ok for a few games at the tail end of the season is acceptable. It's a 12-game season. You can't spend the first 7 games trying to put things together.
Gibson also looked good when given opportunities last year, he had 375 yds and 5 tds as the 4/5th receiver. Farooq's ball security is maddening but he's still really productive, not just talented. Nothing to say on Burks, Anderson, Anthony? Sawchuk averaged 6.2 ypc last year & Barnes was hurt. I do think Barnes is at the top of scouting reports given the WR injuries, bad line play, and bad QB play. The running backs do well when they don't have 3 guys around them as soon as they touch the ball.
 
Gibson also looked good when given opportunities last year, he had 375 yds and 5 tds as the 4/5th receiver. Farooq's ball security is maddening but he's still really productive, not just talented. Nothing to say on Burks, Anderson, Anthony? Sawchuk averaged 6.2 ypc last year & Barnes was hurt. I do think Barnes is at the top of scouting reports given the WR injuries, bad line play, and bad QB play. The running backs do well when they don't have 3 guys around them as soon as they touch the ball.
I already made my point on Burks and you chose not to respond. He caught a bunch of 5-yard passes. We couldn't even get him the ball downfield against teams like Temple and Houston. Is that him, the QB, the coaching, or some combination thereof? Likely the latter, but to act like he has established himself as a great WR at OU is nonsense. Anderson and Anthony would help, but anyone watching this offense can't possibly think that we are just a healthy receiver or two away from being a functional offense.

I much preferred Sawchuk to Barnes last season. We would have likely won at Lawrence if Brent didn't waste the first quarter playing Barnes over a healthy Walker, and then going back to Barnes after Walker got hurt late in the third. But this year, neither of them has been very good. If you can find me a single example of either of them making a man miss in space, I will be surprised. Barnes runs straight ahead and gets what is there and nothing more. Sawchuk looked bad the first couple games and has been an afterthought since. But can you really look at either of those two and ague that they have developed and improved over their careers? Add Hicks in since he can't even get on the field. Murray may be a good recruiter, but I just don't see any signs he is doing much more.

Injuries only get you so far. Texas has played multiple games without Ewers the past two seasons and lost two backs to injury before this season. People barely even remember that because it hasn't slowed them at all. Outside of WR, we haven't been hit harder by injuries than any other team. If Brent wants to talk about "competitive depth," he can't have a season derailed because one position group is hit with injuries.
 
Would be a good start, but do we trust Brent to get the next hire right? Think of what a massive failure Brent will have been on two of the most important decisions a head coach has to make: selecting a QB and hiring an OC. I hope that if he doesn't get it right this time, it is the last major decision he makes before he is the one to suffer the consequences rather than people working under him.
I do. He just has to get some of teh dabo out. Between him and Joe C I think they can find the right guy
 
If Venables goes 6-6 this year I expect his seat to be warm. I don't want him to clean house on offense but Littrell & Finley have to go. If they let go of 1-2 more I'd be okay with that too. I do disagree whoever said Bedenbough needs to go. This line is horrible but that's lack of talent, I thought they were insanely improved against Texas. Still not good, but improved.
How many years in a row can we use the "lack of talent" argument for the oline? Seems to me that is the excuse and then those lacking talent guys go into the NFL and produce.

I'm convinced the only reason people aren't bitching more about BB is because of ikard's podcast
 
I've noticed OU's line get better throughout the season every year. The WR's would be great if the starting 5 wouldn't have got hurt, even then the backups have done solid given they're the 6-8 guys. Sawchuk was solid last year & Barnes has looked solid this year, but there's no O-Line or threat to pass. QB has been bad this year, TE has been bad the last 2 years.
Sawchuck was very average last year. And BArnes is very average this year. RBs are trash and not up to OU standards. Not sure if that is evalution or coaching.
None of our RBs outside of tatums has shown any ability to make anyone miss. It is literally run fast in a straight line until contact
 
I already made my point on Burks and you chose not to respond. He caught a bunch of 5-yard passes. We couldn't even get him the ball downfield against teams like Temple and Houston. Is that him, the QB, the coaching, or some combination thereof? Likely the latter, but to act like he has established himself as a great WR at OU is nonsense. Anderson and Anthony would help, but anyone watching this offense can't possibly think that we are just a healthy receiver or two away from being a functional offense.

I much preferred Sawchuk to Barnes last season. We would have likely won at Lawrence if Brent didn't waste the first quarter playing Barnes over a healthy Walker, and then going back to Barnes after Walker got hurt late in the third. But this year, neither of them has been very good. If you can find me a single example of either of them making a man miss in space, I will be surprised. Barnes runs straight ahead and gets what is there and nothing more. Sawchuk looked bad the first couple games and has been an afterthought since. But can you really look at either of those two and ague that they have developed and improved over their careers? Add Hicks in since he can't even get on the field. Murray may be a good recruiter, but I just don't see any signs he is doing much more.

Injuries only get you so far. Texas has played multiple games without Ewers the past two seasons and lost two backs to injury before this season. People barely even remember that because it hasn't slowed them at all. Outside of WR, we haven't been hit harder by injuries than any other team. If Brent wants to talk about "competitive depth," he can't have a season derailed because one position group is hit with injuries.
Because the QB & OL play are horrible. If you can't see the WR group is really good when healthy then that's on you.
 
I already made my point on Burks and you chose not to respond. He caught a bunch of 5-yard passes. We couldn't even get him the ball downfield against teams like Temple and Houston. Is that him, the QB, the coaching, or some combination thereof? Likely the latter, but to act like he has established himself as a great WR at OU is nonsense. Anderson and Anthony would help, but anyone watching this offense can't possibly think that we are just a healthy receiver or two away from being a functional offense.

I much preferred Sawchuk to Barnes last season. We would have likely won at Lawrence if Brent didn't waste the first quarter playing Barnes over a healthy Walker, and then going back to Barnes after Walker got hurt late in the third. But this year, neither of them has been very good. If you can find me a single example of either of them making a man miss in space, I will be surprised. Barnes runs straight ahead and gets what is there and nothing more. Sawchuk looked bad the first couple games and has been an afterthought since. But can you really look at either of those two and ague that they have developed and improved over their careers? Add Hicks in since he can't even get on the field. Murray may be a good recruiter, but I just don't see any signs he is doing much more.

Injuries only get you so far. Texas has played multiple games without Ewers the past two seasons and lost two backs to injury before this season. People barely even remember that because it hasn't slowed them at all. Outside of WR, we haven't been hit harder by injuries than any other team. If Brent wants to talk about "competitive depth," he can't have a season derailed because one position group is hit with injuries.
The inability to choose the right RB is baffling to me. It was clear as day that Walker was our best option last year and he is proving it this year.
 
Sawchuck was very average last year. And BArnes is very average this year. RBs are trash and not up to OU standards. Not sure if that is evalution or coaching.
None of our RBs outside of tatums has shown any ability to make anyone miss. It is literally run fast in a straight line until contact
Sawchuck was good last year. There's no way to tell if Barnes is average, they have no o-line or passing game. He looks a lot more explosive than last year.
 
Sawchuck was good last year. There's no way to tell if Barnes is average, they have no o-line or passing game. He looks a lot more explosive than last year.
He looks more explosive yes. But by only running in a straight line. He can't cut.

I was surprised Sawchuck's overall ypc was over 6 last year. Looks like things clicked late in the year because through Oct he had under a 4 ypc and under a total of 150 yards
 
He looks more explosive yes. But by only running in a straight line. He can't cut.

I was surprised Sawchuck's overall ypc was over 6 last year. Looks like things clicked late in the year because through Oct he had under a 4 ypc and under a total of 150 yards
bottom line, neither one of them are feature backs
 
Sawchuk was last year on a top 5 offense, so that's not true.
He technically was a featured back. You are right. But he shouldn't be a featured back at OU.
When has Sawchuck ever wowed anyone? I can think of one game and it was the bowl game vs FSU.
He wasn't able to beat out barnes or walker or major.
It wasn't until November that he started to get the carries and that was because barnes was obviously limited and walker was in the dog house.d
 
The inability to choose the right RB is baffling to me. It was clear as day that Walker was our best option last year and he is proving it this year.
Was a huge source of my frustration last year. I’d see people make the excuse that Walker lacked breakaway speed and shake, but none of our backs broke long runs last year (Sawchuk had the one long TD in Stillwater), so why they didn’t go with the dude who ran hard and consistently was able to gain extra yards by brute strength was baffling. And he would be especially handy this year since the line isn’t good.
 
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