OT: Football Talk

Why does OU football always have to wait for a couple losses (usually texas) to make changes? BV has to know its a probably and not going to get fixed. It would be nice to be proactive and not wait for a loss
 
Why does OU football always have to wait for a couple losses (usually texas) to make changes? BV has to know its a probably and not going to get fixed. It would be nice to be proactive and not wait for a loss
To be fair, we usually beat Texas. lol
 
Sawchuck was very average last year. And BArnes is very average this year. RBs are trash and not up to OU standards. Not sure if that is evalution or coaching.
None of our RBs outside of tatums has shown any ability to make anyone miss. It is literally run fast in a straight line until contact

We haven't had a really good back since Brooks. Texas has been killing us in recruiting running backs. You can see Tatum has talent but according to Gabe, he doesn't even know what to do on any given play. I'd really like to know what the deal is with Hicks. He looked very good in limited action last season.
 
We haven't had a really good back since Brooks. Texas has been killing us in recruiting running backs. You can see Tatum has talent but according to Gabe, he doesn't even know what to do on any given play. I'd really like to know what the deal is with Hicks. He looked very good in limited action last season.
I think Gray was a really good back his last season. But agree with everything else you said. And it’s inexcusable for Tatum to be so clueless. Running back is a position that talented guys usually can play as freshmen. I realize there are responsibilities in tye passing game, but it sounds like he doesn’t even get the basics down.
 
The nepotism hires need to stop. DM, SL, BB, JJF ALL need to go. Clean house and start anew. BV will certainly be on the hot seat next year. He’s gotta make it count.
 
Why does OU football always have to wait for a couple losses (usually texas) to make changes? BV has to know its a probably and not going to get fixed. It would be nice to be proactive and not wait for a loss
What changes can he make? The OL can’t block. Neither QB can QB. ALL the WR are hurt. There are no changes to be made. This offense is a disaster and has very little talent.

BV has neglected the offense completely to build up the defense. We have 2 teams really, a lot like Riley’s teams. One side coaches defense and the other side coaches offense. 2 separate teams that are operating independently. They are not working together. It’s 2 completely different camps. It’s not good.
 
What changes can he make? The OL can’t block. Neither QB can QB. ALL the WR are hurt. There are no changes to be made. This offense is a disaster and has very little talent.

BV has neglected the offense completely to build up the defense. We have 2 teams really, a lot like Riley’s teams. One side coaches defense and the other side coaches offense. 2 separate teams that are operating independently. They are not working together. It’s 2 completely different camps. It’s not good.
I'm just saying in general why does it seem OU always waits to make changes until a loss or 2?
 
I'm just saying in general why does it seem OU always waits to make changes until a loss or 2?
And I also think that just about any decent OC could at least make schematic changes. We don't have the talent to be a great offense, maybe not even a good one. But both the running and passing games need a complete overhaul. That's another reason why they desperately need to hire someone from outside the OU family. Get some fresh ideas in there.
 
I'm just saying in general why does it seem OU always waits to make changes until a loss or 2?


Drastic in-season changes are rare. It's just not done unless a coach's behavior toward players or other coaches crosses a line.
Highly unlikely BV makes any coaching changes until after the season. Even if Littrell were replaced, I'd expect the offense to get worse before it gets better.
You can't start installing new plays/concepts in the middle of the season and expect good results quickly.
Also, BB has been coaching offensive line blocking schemes for years, yet his line can't block anyone. I have to assume the o-linemen are just not capable.
Combined with a freshman and a sophomore qb, top 4/5 receivers injured, where would the improvement even come from?
 
Drastic in-season changes are rare. It's just not done unless a coach's behavior toward players or other coaches crosses a line.
Highly unlikely BV makes any coaching changes until after the season. Even if Littrell were replaced, I'd expect the offense to get worse before it gets better.
You can't start installing new plays/concepts in the middle of the season and expect good results quickly.
Also, BB has been coaching offensive line blocking schemes for years, yet his line can't block anyone. I have to assume the o-linemen are just not capable.
Combined with a freshman and a sophomore qb, top 4/5 receivers injured, where would the improvement even come from?
Concept. And it doesn't have to be incredibly complicated stuff.
 
Drastic in-season changes are rare. It's just not done unless a coach's behavior toward players or other coaches crosses a line.
Highly unlikely BV makes any coaching changes until after the season. Even if Littrell were replaced, I'd expect the offense to get worse before it gets better.
You can't start installing new plays/concepts in the middle of the season and expect good results quickly.
Also, BB has been coaching offensive line blocking schemes for years, yet his line can't block anyone. I have to assume the o-linemen are just not capable.
Combined with a freshman and a sophomore qb, top 4/5 receivers injured, where would the improvement even come from?
They are rare but not unheard of. And I wasn't just talking about coaching changes but also player changes.

But I am fully confident that someone could come in and create a simple game plan with changes and have better results.
WOuld it be great changes? No. But it would be better than what we have. These kids have been playing football their entire lives, they can adjust pretty quickly.
Again, it can't get any worse
 
The Texas game was discouraging on so many levels. Without any of the top 5 WRs, it's understandable that the receiving options are limited. However, it didn't appear the coaches had any kind of offensive game plan to work around that. What bothers me even more is the offensive line. I understand things are a bit different in the NIL era. Still, OU has SIX starting offensive tackles in the NFL - that's 6 out of 64...which includes the best of them all (Trent Williams) as well as another future Hall-of-Famer (Lane Johnson). We also have the best center in the NFL (Creed Humphrey). As such, this should be the EASIEST position group to be able to re-stock year in and year out. How the coaches can't sell this is mind-boggling. Finally, when it appeared the QB play was going to be abysmal, a change should have been made even if to produce a spark. No halftime adjustments were apparently made, either. This loss heavily falls on the coaching staff.
 
Bill Parcells was the last guy onto the bus when the victorious Giants departed Candlestick Park after winning the 1990 NFC Championship Game over San Francisco. He immediately made eye contact with Bill Belichick and said three words regarding the mighty Buffalo Bills, their upcoming opponent in Super Bowl XXV: "shorten the game."

Shorten the game. Why? Because the offensive talent assembled on the Bills' roster far outclassed anything the rough and tumble Giants could throw at them. But by shortening the game Big Blue could limit the amount of time Buffalo's vaunted K-Gun offense was on the field and maybe, just maybe, they could control the clock to have a chance late. It would take smart, disciplined football and it would require no mistakes from Jeff Hostetler, their backup QB....but it could be done. And it was. The Giants had the ball for nearly 41 minutes and, thanks to Scott Norwood's field goal miss at the horn, NYG won its second Super Bowl, 20-19. The gameplan formulated by Bill Belichick for the contest resides inside the walls of the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton, Ohio.

A football coach's number one objective is not to make pillars of the community. It is not to lock arms at midfield and project an aura of familial togetherness. The number one objective for every football coach from the University of Oklahoma to Panhandle State is to win football games, and for a team to have a chance to win football games those coaches have to put their charges in position to be successful. What we saw Saturday afternoon in the Cotton Bowl was a team that had two weeks to prepare and still chose to attack the #1 team in the country with one hand tied behind its back.

I haven't played a down of tackle football in 30 years. I'll never be confused with Amos Alonzo Stagg, but I have a basic understanding of the game, and I know that it's damn hard to score when your offense is sitting under those little tents on the sidelines. If you're controlling the clock, if you're matriculating the ball down the field, you've got a chance. I remember sitting in Owen Field in 2018 when we played Army. Kyler Murray threw a pick at the Black Knight 1 with 12:23 to go in the 4th. The score was tied at 21. I turned to my buddy and said, "we might not get the ball back." I was very nearly proven correct.

We have a true freshman at QB who can run like a gazelle. We have three serviceable running backs. The attrition in our wide receiver room is bad enough to be compared to Mr. Burns' softball team. I guarantee you somewhere on the roster are five linemen who can block the man in front of them. And if those five guys can block the five in front of them then there's a good chance somebody can pull or chip and trap. And maybe if you bust one for a few yards off right tackle then you can run a little bootleg off of that and get your quarterback in space. And if the D has to think about the pulling guard and the boot action off of that then maybe decent play action has a chance to freeze that linebacker for a second.

It's old school football. But it works. We don't have to go out there and show everybody how damn smart we are. We don't have to prove to the world we can run RPO and wow the pundits with our creative schemes. We just need 2nd and 7. We are the worst first down team since the 1928 Pottsville Maroons. We are in 2nd and 14 more than I ever thought possible. Matriculate. Hold onto the ball. Positive yards. Quick hitters. If we can't block as a unit let's run it up the guard's ass a few times so we're only depending on one good block instead of five. Bring in the splits. Ass cheek to ass cheek and knock the **** out of the nearest guy in orange.

There is no reason in the world for this team to run tempo. None. Get the play called, get everybody on the same page, and run your stuff correctly with mere moments left on the play clock. We don't need flash. We don't need an elaborate route tree with three-level concepts. We need to make yards on first down. We need our defense fresh. We need to flip the field. We need to STAY IN BOUNDS! What we saw Saturday was coaching malfeasance. That's not hyperbole. I was in the stands for all but one of John Blake's home games. I know steaming piles of crap when I see it. How we could have two weeks to prepare and produce THAT festering turd of an offensive game plan is beyond my limited understanding.

The first quarter Saturday reminded me of the 2015 game, a 24-17 Texas win. The Horns took advantage of our early mistakes and jumped out to a 14-0 lead. We completely panicked. Riley abandoned the run and we never got over the hump. The 2015 game was the third of four consecutive trips to Dallas where we were double-digit favorites. We were undefeated; Texas was 1-4. The Horns had Jerrod Heard and TYRONE SWOOPES as quarterbacks. And they won. They kicked our butts. Four straight years of being two touchdown dogs, the end of Mack Brown, the whole Charlie Strong era, and those assholes outscored us over that stretch to the tune of 126-113. We had them completely on tilt for a solid quarter Saturday. Had the offense done anything.......who knows? When you're not getting the breaks the doubt will fester. When you fumble out of the endzone to go up 14-3 it can really jack with your psyche. Instead the offense does nothing and that little wideout outruns the whole fleet to recover the fumble. Game OVER.

The two great Sooner coaches of my lifetime both faced existential crises after a decade on the job: Switzer in 1983 and Bob in 2014. Both responded with keen hires and great recruiting to place the program back on its proper pedestal. The King brought in Mack Brown (say what you want) and turned the D over to a youth movement en route to winning the Big 8 in 1984. Stoopsie conducted a true OC search, and brought in an absolute wizard (again, say what you want) to turn the offense into an absolute juggernaut. The hiring of Seth Littrell and the promotion of Joe Jon Finley is an unmitigated disaster. Shooing away a Heisman candidate in favor of an unproven player will have long-lasting repercussions that are difficult to fathom.

I sure hope we beat South Carolina. It's going to be mighty ugly the rest of the way if we don't.

Thank you for your time.
 
Last edited:
Bill Parcells was the last guy onto the bus when the victorious Giants departed Candlestick Park after winning the 1990 NFC Championship Game over San Francisco. He immediately made eye contact with Bill Belichick and said three words regarding the mighty Buffalo Bills, their upcoming opponent in Super Bowl XXV: "shorten the game."

Shorten the game. Why? Because the offensive talent assembled on the Bills' roster far outclassed anything the rough and tumble Giants could throw at them. But by shortening the game Big Blue could limit the amount of time Buffalo's vaunted K-Gun offense was on the field and maybe, just maybe, they could control the clock to have a chance late. It would take smart, disciplined football and it would require no mistakes from Jeff Hostetler, their backup QB....but it could be done. And it was. The Giants had the ball for nearly 41 minutes and, thanks to Scott Norwood's field goal miss at the horn, NYG won its second Super Bowl, 20-19. The gameplan formulated by Bill Belichick for the contest resides inside the walls of the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton, Ohio.

A football coach's number one objective is not to make pillars of the community. It is not to lock arms at midfield and project an aura of familial togetherness. The number one objective for every football coach from the University of Oklahoma to Panhandle State is to win football games, and for a team to have a chance to win football games those coaches have to put their charges in position to be successful. What we saw Saturday afternoon in the Cotton Bowl was a team that had two weeks to prepare and still chose to attack the #1 team in the country with one hand tied behind its back.

I haven't played a down of tackle football in 30 years. I'll never be confused with Amos Alonzo Stagg, but I have a basic understanding of the game, and I know that it's damn hard to score when your offense is sitting under those little tents on the sidelines. If you're controlling the clock, if you're matriculating the ball down the field, you've got a chance. I remember sitting in Owen Field in 2018 when we played Army. Kyler Murray threw a pick at the Black Knight 1 with 12:23 to go in the 4th. The score was tied at 21. I turned to my buddy and said, "we might not get the ball back." I was very nearly proven correct.

We have a true freshman at QB who can run like a gazelle. We have three serviceable running backs. The attrition in our wide receiver room is bad enough to be compared to Mr. Burns' softball team. I guarantee you somewhere on the roster are five linemen who can block the man in front of them. And if those five guys can block the five in front of them then there's a good chance somebody can pull or chip and trap. And maybe if you bust one for a few yards off right tackle then you can run a little bootleg off of that and get your quarterback in space. And if the D has to think about the pulling guard and the boot action off of that then maybe decent play action has a chance to freeze that linebacker for a second.

It's old school football. But it works. We don't have to go out there and show everybody how damn smart we are. We don't have to prove to the world we can run RPO and wow the pundits with our creative schemes. We just need 2nd and 7. We are the worst first down team since the 1928 Pottsville Maroons. We are in 2nd and 14 more than I ever thought possible. Matriculate. Hold onto the ball. Positive yards. Quick hitters. If we can't block as a unit let's run it up the guard's ass a few times so we're only depending on one good block instead of five. Bring in the splits. Ass cheek to ass cheek and knock the **** out of the nearest guy in orange.

There is no reason in the world for this team to run tempo. None. Get the play called, get everybody on the same page, and run your stuff correctly with mere moments left on the play clock. We don't need flash. We don't need an elaborate route tree with three-level concepts. We need to make yards on first down. We need our defense fresh. We need to flip the field. We need to STAY IN BOUNDS! What we saw Saturday was coaching malfeasance. That's not hyperbole. I was in the stands for all but one of John Blake's home games. I know steaming piles of crap when I see it. How we could have two weeks to prepare and produce THAT festering turd of an offensive game plan is beyond my limited understanding.

The first quarter Saturday reminded me of the 2015 game, a 24-17 Texas win. The Horns took advantage of our early mistakes and jumped out to a 14-0 lead. We completely panicked. Riley abandoned the run and we never got over the hump. The 2015 game was the third of four consecutive trips to Dallas where we were double-digit favorites. We were undefeated; Texas was 1-4. The Horns had Jerrod Heard and TYRONE SWOOPES as quarterbacks. And they won. They kicked our butts. Four straight years of being two touchdown dogs, the end of Mack Brown, the whole Charlie Strong era, and those assholes outscored us over that stretch to the tune of 126-113. We had them completely on tilt for a solid quarter Saturday. Had the offense done anything.......who knows? When you're not getting the breaks the doubt will fester. When you fumble out of the endzone to go up 14-3 it can really jack with your psyche. Instead the offense does nothing and that little wideout outruns the whole fleet to recover the fumble. Game OVER.

The two great Sooner coaches of my lifetime both faced existential crises after a decade on the job: Switzer in 1983 and Bob in 2014. Both responded with keen hires and great recruiting to place the program back on its proper pedestal. The King brought in Mack Brown (say what you want) and turned the D over to a youth movement en route to winning the Big 8 in 1984. Stoopsie conducted a true OC search, and brought in an absolute wizard (again, say what you want) to turn the offense into an absolute juggernaut. The hiring of Seth Littrell and the promotion of Joe Jon Finley is an unmitigated disaster. Shooing away a Heisman candidate in favor of an unproven player will have long-lasting repercussions that are difficult to fathom.

I sure hope we beat South Carolina. It's going to be mighty ugly the rest of the way if we don't.

Thank you for your time.
I think that unless Brent makes a great OC hire in the offseason, and brings in more qualified coaches at multiple offensive positions, the remainder of his tenure will be unspeakably bad. I’ve said multiple times that what is happening is every bit as bad as the John Blake era, and I firmly believe that. Despite what some people want to believe, Brent took over about as good situation as humanly possible. An elite program that was still near the peak of its powers. He wasn’t going to a historically great program that had been down for a decade or was facing off-field issues. Yes, we lost Caleb Williams. Guess what, every team loses players these days, especially when there is a coaching change. His first team still returned six guys who are now in the NFL, and he managed to bring in a very good transfer QB. Playing a very soft schedule, he went 6-7. Last year fooled people into thinking we were better than we were based on a terrible schedule, but his lack of tactical acumen and discipline still showed up time and again.

I’d love to know if the KU guy would have come if only Brent had bothered offering him the job. Penn State is averaging more than 60 yards per game more this season than last. They just came back on the road from two scores down and won a game that they almost certainly would have lost in previous seasons. I hope there are comparable OCs on the market this winter, but will Brent be able to hire any of them? And will we have a QB good enough to make us a competitive team in our league? I know this, it’s going to be painful seeing Gabriel in NY in a couple months, knowing that he should have finished his career in Norman if our coach had been better prepared to handle the possibility that he would return to college if he didn’t get a good draft grade.
 
Well my comment was about combine invites this season, which is a big indicator of the talent level in a program. Your response made me think you were suggesting more guys than not would be invited, so I thought you meant more than half the starting defense.

I am pleased with the defensive progress, but it’s still not close to elite. The way I think of it is this: under Riley, our defense was atrocious, but we were a playoff team more years than not because our offense was truly elite. Now, our offense is an abomination, and while our D is good, it isn’t nearly good enough to shut down good teams for 4 quarters. Yesterday is a good example. We actually had the edge in time of possession, so it’s not like our defense was exhausted. But after a good 20-25 minutes, we started missing a lot of tackles and ended up giving up 400+ yards and 34 points to a team that didn’t even play all that well. Maybe the defense will continue to improve and reach the elite level, but that will only happen if Venables can become a competent offensive coach. I just don’t see how this is sustainable. This weekend seemed to be a tipping point of sorts. I read multiple articles in national publications talking about how poor a job Brent is doing. If we lose Saturday, and that’s very possible if not probable, the wheels could come off.

Our defense isn't elite, but it has been good enough for the first time since he left in 2008, and it only projects to continue getting better. I'm not sure that elite defenses exist anymore. Did you watch UGA vs Alabama this year? I've seen Saban defenses get torched over the last few years that had 1st rounders at every position.

If this is the offense we'll have under him moving forward, then yes, we have to move on. But under Lebby we were top 25 in PPG both years, with his final year being #3, and that didn't feel like the ceiling.

If we had a top 25 offense this year, like we have in every other season under Venables, we would essentially be a lock for the CFP. Not necessarily contenders, but definitely a top 10 team.

I think offenses are a much quicker fix in college football than defense, as long as you have the right QB. I see no reason to believe our offense can't be exponentially better with an offseason under a different offensive coaching staff. If the next staff produces like this, then yes, time to move on. I don't expect that to be the case.
 
Our defense isn't elite, but it has been good enough for the first time since he left in 2008, and it only projects to continue getting better. I'm not sure that elite defenses exist anymore. Did you watch UGA vs Alabama this year? I've seen Saban defenses get torched over the last few years that had 1st rounders at every position.

If this is the offense we'll have under him moving forward, then yes, we have to move on. But under Lebby we were top 25 in PPG both years, with his final year being #3, and that didn't feel like the ceiling.

If we had a top 25 offense this year, like we have in every other season under Venables, we would essentially be a lock for the CFP. Not necessarily contenders, but definitely a top 10 team.

I think offenses are a much quicker fix in college football than defense, as long as you have the right QB. I see no reason to believe our offense can't be exponentially better with an offseason under a different offensive coaching staff. If the next staff produces like this, then yes, time to move on. I don't expect that to be the case.
Again, I don’t disagree with a lot of what you said. But I do think our defense is going to be exposed as slightly overrated the rest of the season. Lots of leaks against Auburn and Texas. We will see where our numbers shake out by the end of the season.
 
I can't believe how bad we are. Our offense has contributed to every single score in the first 4 minutes of the game putting this game virtually out of reach with how unable we are to create. Hate to say it but we are probably the laughing stock of the SEC and will end up in last or at least second to last. Literally only think we can beat Maine and that will probably be a close game as well. BV should be in the hot seat for the s***** hire he made
 
Moser gets four years so BV should as well. But this is bad. The entire offense needs to be overhauled.
 
Back
Top