Other College BBall Thread 2024-5

I know I was away all week and missed the Uzan debate, but here are some numbers to help settle that:

1741015005500.png

He had a better fresh year than soph, so did not improve under Moser, got worse (ish)...which is not a good look. Then proceeded to have a great jump in efficiency and advanced stats.

So even though many argue the "stat-sheet" bump isn't great, his overall game has taken a big leap forward.
 
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TEvans4Three said:
I know I was away all week and missed the Uzan debate, but here are some numbers to help settle that:

View attachment 2310

He had a better fresh year than soph, so did not improve under Moser, got worse...which is not a good look. Then proceeded to have a great jump in efficiency and advanced stats.

So even though many argue the "stat-sheet" bump isn't great, his overall game has take a big leap forward.
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Oh look, regression under pm with 2 years.. and improvement with KS under 1 year.. why is that? So completely random with no idea why that could be..........

Imagine what Fears would have been like under KS instead of pm..
 
skyvue said:
We're flooded with overreactions and misstatements on the board of late, with the relentless trashing of Joe C. leading the way.
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Overreactions to the worst 3-4 year stretch that the two highest profile programs on campus have had in decades, both caused largely by poor head coaching hires that Joe made and by our apparent shortcomings when it comes to having a high-level NIL system in place? What would be the appropriate level of concern in your eyes?

I get that you like to present yourself as more mature than pretty much anyone else, but at what point would you be willing to acknowledge that we just may have a problem here?
 
BoulderSooner said:
i would argue that the "trashing of Joe C." was long long overdue
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In a "what have you done for me lately" world, with the 2 most important sports at OU, joe c is batting 0.000%

And he hasnt hit a homerun since 1999.. i would say that Kruger was a homerun, but the way his tenure ended makes it a triple or maybe rounding third to go home, imo
 
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hoopsaustin said:
In a "what have you done for me lately" world, with the 2 most important sports at OU, joe c is batting 0.000%

And he hasnt hit a homerun since 1999.. i would say that Kruger was a homerun, but the way his tenure ended makes it a triple imo
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and in fundraising . he has done a poor job
 
hoopsaustin said:
In a "what have you done for me lately" world, with the 2 most important sports at OU, joe c is batting 0.000%

And he hasnt hit a homerun since 1999.. i would say that Kruger was a homerun, but the way his tenure ended makes it a triple imo
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I put no stock in your opinion. Nothing personal, but you've made it clear that you only care about those two sports (or maybe it's only men's sports, not sure--doesn't matter).

Jennie B. was a home run hire. K.J. Kindler, Ryan Hybl, Skip Johnson, Nick Crowell...all were home run hires. Retaining Patty Gasso all these years was the equivalent of a home run hire. I'm confident Jim Nagy will prove to be a home run hire--it's certainly viewed that way in the reactions I've seen online. The jury is still out on Venables, but I haven't given up on him. He inherited a mess and then they shifted the move to the SEC up a year. We could be much improved next season and still have a so-so record, with the SEC's penchant for screwing us on scheduling (Teddy Lehman has opined more than once that we have the nation's toughest schedule next season). I'll say this: BV's hiring was widely viewed as a home run at the time.

I know exactly what some will say--that most of the sports I've mentioned are minor ones and don't make a profit. The AD's job is to have good-to-great programs across the board, not just the top two men's sports. And yes, I understand the importance, in financial terms, of those two sports--they also are two of the most important sports to me, personally--but virtually everyone thought BV was a great hire. He may still be if and when the offense gets straightened out--hopefully we're getting there--and we are given the type of easy schedule texas has been handed its first two seasons.

Porter Moser was viewed as a home run hire, too by many fans and by national observers. I questioned the hire from the jump (and haven't had my mind changed), but anyone on this board who was celebrating the hire--and there were more than a few--better at least cop to that before trashing Joe C.

Some continue to downplay it but keeping a major collegiate sports department in the black without direct funding from the university--and in a relatively sparsely populated state--is well nigh miraculous. That's a huge part of what Joe C. is paid to do, and he achieves it year after year. I'm not saying he's perfect, but overall, he does a great job. Anyone who thinks the next AD will be able to wave a magic wand and >poof!< a new arena and a huge pile of NIL money will appear is kidding themselves. Sports fans (well, OU fans at least) seem to insist on reducing complex problems and obstancles--with a team or in this case an entire athletic department--to just one person. Bench that player or fire that assistant and it'll make all the difference. Currently, because we're all frustrated with the results in football and men's basketball, it's fire the AD. Maybe it's the thing to do, but you had better have a can't-miss guy lined up. Because the multitude of issues OU faces in those two sports are not going to be quickly or easily fixed.
 
skyvue said:
I put no stock in your opinion. Nothing personal, but you've made it clear that you only care about those two sports (or maybe it's only men's sports, not sure--doesn't matter).

Jennie B. was a home run hire. K.J. Kindler, Ryan Hybl, Skip Johnson, Nick Crowell...all were home run hires. Retaining Patty Gasso all these years was the equivalent of a home run hire. I'm confident Jim Nagy will prove to be a home run hire--it's certainly viewed that way in the reactions I've seen online. The jury is still out on Venables, but I haven't given up on him. He inherited a mess and then they shifted the move to the SEC up a year. We could be much improved next season and still have a so-so record, with the SEC's penchant for screwing us on scheduling (Teddy Lehman has opined more than once that we have the nation's toughest schedule next season). I'll say this: BV's hiring was widely viewed as a home run at the time.

I know exactly what some will say--that most of the sports I've mentioned are minor ones and don't make a profit. The AD's job is to have good-to-great programs across the board, not just the top two men's sports. And yes, I understand the importance, in financial terms, of those two sports--they also are two of the most important sports to me, personally--but virtually everyone thought BV was a great hire. He may still be if and when the offense gets straightened out--hopefully we're getting there--and we are given the type of easy schedule texas has been handed its first two seasons.

Porter Moser was viewed as a home run hire, too by many fans and by national observers. I questioned the hire from the jump (and haven't had my mind changed), but anyone on this board who was celebrating the hire--and there were more than a few--better at least cop to that before trashing Joe C.

Some continue to downplay it but keeping a major collegiate sports department in the black without direct funding from the university--and in a relatively sparsely populated state--is well nigh miraculous. That's a huge part of what Joe C. is paid to do, and he achieves it year after year. I'm not saying he's perfect, but overall, he does a great job. Anyone who thinks the next AD will be able to wave a magic wand and >poof!< a new arena and a huge pile of NIL money will appear is kidding themselves. Sports fans (well, OU fans at least) seem to insist on reducing complex problems and obstancles--with a team or in this case an entire athletic department--to just one person. Bench that player or fire that assistant and it'll make all the difference. Currently, because we're all frustrated with the results in football and men's basketball, it's fire the AD. Maybe it's the thing to do, but you had better have a can't-miss guy lined up. Because the multitude of issues OU faces in those two sports are not going to be quickly or easily fixed.
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The jury isn’t out on Brent. He has been awful, and he didn’t inherit a mess. He took the job knowing they were pushing to move up the timeframe for the jump to the SEC. He inherited no more challenges than any coach does when taking over for someone who left.

I like and follow some of the non revenue sports. I’ve loved college baseball since I was a kid watching WSU dominate, and I enjoy watching OU softball. I don’t think those sports have less intrinsic value than football or basketball, but it’s undeniable that it doesn’t cost as much to hire coaches or field rosters. To the extent Joe isn’t good at raising NIL funds, that is something that will show up much more in football and basketball, so his success in the other sports doesn’t really matter much in assessing whether he is capable of pulling those two programs out of the gutter.

I was one of the people who was happy we hired Moser. But there is nothing wrong with changing your opinion once there is enough data to show that it wasn’t the right choice. And as the guy who is paid precisely to make those kinds of decisions, Joe needs to do a better job than he has with his basketball hires. And if he doesn’t course correct quickly in football, the same will be true, there, too.

And the schedule talk in football is so ridiculous. Yes, we got the short end of the stick in this initial two-year cycle. But why on earth would the league be out to intentionally screw us, as opposed to Texas? I always think there is a touch of narcissism when people make those arguments … it implies that OU is so important that the league as a whole is sitting around creating plans to make life difficult on us while giving other teams better treatment. And given how bad the product Brent put out this year was, would it have even mattered if we played a slightly easier schedule? Maybe we finish the regular season 3-5 instead of 2-6? Would that make anyone feel better about where things stand? We just sent three freaking guys to the combine. Our roster is terrible by SEC standards, and no scheduling would have changed that.
 
WichitaSooner said:
The jury isn’t out on Brent. He has been awful, and he didn’t inherit a mess. He took the job knowing they were pushing to move up the timeframe for the jump to the SEC. He inherited no more challenges than any coach does when taking over for someone who left.

I like and follow some of the non revenue sports. I’ve loved college baseball since I was a kid watching WSU dominate, and I enjoy watching OU softball. I don’t think those sports have less intrinsic value than football or basketball, but it’s undeniable that it doesn’t cost as much to hire coaches or field rosters. To the extent Joe isn’t good at raising NIL funds, that is something that will show up much more in football and basketball, so his success in the other sports doesn’t really matter much in assessing whether he is capable of pulling those two programs out of the gutter.

I was one of the people who was happy we hired Moser. But there is nothing wrong with changing your opinion once there is enough data to show that it wasn’t the right choice. And as the guy who is paid precisely to make those kinds of decisions, Joe needs to do a better job than he has with his basketball hires. And if he doesn’t course correct quickly in football, the same will be true, there, too.

And the schedule talk in football is so ridiculous. Yes, we got the short end of the stick in this initial two-year cycle. But why on earth would the league be out to intentionally screw us, as opposed to Texas? I always think there is a touch of narcissism when people make those arguments … it implies that OU is so important that the league as a whole is sitting around creating plans to make life difficult on us while giving other teams better treatment. And given how bad the product Brent put out this year was, would it have even mattered if we played a slightly easier schedule? Maybe we finish the regular season 3-5 instead of 2-6? Would that make anyone feel better about where things stand? We just sent three freaking guys to the combine. Our roster is terrible by SEC standards, and no scheduling would have changed that.
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Your comments about BV are not correct. He did inherit a mess. The previous staff had managed the decline for several years. This has been covered so much it’s ridiculous. Your stubborn refusal to acknowledge it is just you being you. The program was gutted. BV has made mistakes but the program was in turmoil
 
Wichita: Not that I agree with everything you have said or all of your opinions, but I understand your position on Porter. You couldn't be more wrong on Brent. mictO85 is absolutely right. The program had been spiraling downward every year on Riley and the real reason he left was because he knew what the roster was comprised of and he was never going to be able get another contract, at OU, or anywhere else, if he didn't jump ship while his record would still get him a job. In virtually every way, Brent has improved the football team, save and except last year on offense. The reasons for the offensive woes are several, including a couple put on Brent. But, he has set out to fix those problems. Even great coaches have occasional failures, the question is do they introspectively and intelligently figure out what happened and set in motion proper fixes. I think he has done that with the offense, but only time will tell.

As for Porter, I normally wait a day or two after a loss before posting in order to regain rationality and some sense. I didn't the other day and posted I thought he should be fired. I owe him an apology. Having played sports, watched all manner of sports all my life, and raised a son that played sports until he got out of college, I can say with absolute certainty that just because a kid is coached doesn't mean he always follows that coaching or does what he is told. I was mad at Porter the other day because anyone that has ever watched or played basketball, every coach down to the YMCA kids league, knows that officials abhor calling fouls at the very end of a game and prefer to let the players decide the game. Even with regard to calls they would make nearly every time earlier in the game. With a 2 point lead, I thought Sam not getting out and under Pedulla and forcing him to dribble was so fundamentally flawed as to be unforgiveable and stupid. With a 2 point lead at the end of the game, you have to switch on every screen, body up and stay under the shooters and don't foul them on a shot going to the rim. That's it. It isn't complex. If they get around you, and you can't defend without fouling them, let them have the layup. Then, try and win or go to overtime by taking the last shot. Simple, take losing in regulation out of play. So, when Sam didn't get under Pedulla and stayed off of him so he could cut off a drive to the basket, I blamed Porter and that was the last straw for me.

However, I listened for the first time today of his postgame interview with Toby. He had instructed his kids to do exactly as I stated he should have and Sam just, for whatever reason under the pressure of the circumstances, stayed off of Pedulla and just tried to defend the shot. So, I put that on Sam and not Coach. And, the same situation with Dayton in the corner. I blamed Porter for Dayton's not taking the shot and driving the baseline. Again, I was wrong. Porter's play was to drive with Duke and the fall back was Dayton in the corner. Perfect coaching in my mind. Dayton got the ball with time to shoot, and just decided to drive the ball. Under pressure we don't always do what we are supposed to do. Dayton should have take the shot from the corner. Just like Pedulla, a kid running isn't in the sight line from his eyes to the back of the rim.

Lots of people would prefer someone other than Porter to be coach. I might too. But, he hasn't been the disaster some make him out to be, considering the mess he walked into and the complete change in the college game. He will have his third winning season in four years. He has recruited well and shown a good eye for talent in many cases, although he has not been able to retain some players for whatever reasons This year, he had a decent non conference schedule and was undefeated, has won 4 conference games in one of the best conferences in history, and has lost 5 conference games by less than 4 points. In 4 games, he had a lead late and essentially lost on the last possession. mostly with really tough shots by opponents. He is just 5-6 possessions going our way from having an winning record in conference and upper bid in the NCAA Tourney this year.

Frankly, I don't really care what Joe does with Porter after the year. I will support him and the team next year, or if Joe lets him go, I will support whoever he brings in. I am more of a Tubbs philosophy guy than anything else, and I don't think those coaches to exist. So, whether Porter or someone else is the coach, I will be supporting a coach that doesn't have a style consistent with what I prefer. Given the choice, I would like Nate Oats, but he isn't leaving Alabama. So, I am fine with Porter if Joe is. I regret and hereby take back my demote and/or fire Porter posts taken in a fit of post game rage.
 
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mict085 said:
Your comments about BV are not correct. He did inherit a mess. The previous staff had managed the decline for several years. This has been covered so much it’s ridiculous. Your stubborn refusal to acknowledge it is just you being you. The program was gutted. BV has made mistakes but the program was in turmoil
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It's been covered by folks who have a grudge against Riley and want to find ways to absolve Brent from the blame he deserves. However much decline there had been in Riley's last two years, it was nothing compared to the pace of decline under Brent. Three years in and he has yet to send a player he recruited to the program to the combine in an OU uniform, unless I am forgetting someone.
 
cowboysooner said:
Wichita: Not that I agree with everything you have said or all of your opinions, but I understand your position on Porter. You couldn't be more wrong on Brent. mictO85 is absolutely right. The program had been spiraling downward every year on Riley and the real reason he left was because he knew what the roster was comprised of and he was never going to be able get another contract, at OU, or anywhere else, if he didn't jump ship while his record would still get him a job. In virtually every way, Brent has improved the football team, save and except last year on offense. The reasons for the offensive woes are several, including a couple put on Brent. But, he has set out to fix those problems. Even great coaches have occasional failures, the question is do they introspectively and intelligently figure out what happened and set in motion proper fixes. I think he has done that with the offense, but only time will tell.

As for Porter, I normally wait a day or two after a loss before posting in order to regain rationality and some sense. I didn't the other day and posted I thought he should be fired. I owe him an apology. Having played sports, watched all manner of sports all my life, and raised a son that played sports until he got out of college, I can say with absolute certainty that just because a kid is coached doesn't mean he always follows that coaching or does what he is told. I was mad at Porter the other day because anyone that has ever watched or played basketball, every coach down to the YMCA kids league, knows that officials abhor calling fouls at the very end of a game and prefer to let the players decide the game. Even with regard to calls they would make nearly every time earlier in the game. With a 2 point lead, I thought Sam not getting out and under Pedulla and forcing him to dribble was so fundamentally flawed as to be unforgiveable and stupid. With a 2 point lead at the end of the game, you have to switch on every screen, body up and stay under the shooters and don't foul them on a shot going to the rim. That's it. It isn't complex. If they get around you, and you can't defend without shooting, let them have the layup and you win or go to overtime with the last shot. That is about as simple and basic coaching strategy as exists. So, when Sam didn't get under Pedulla and stayed off of him so he could cut off a drive to the basket, I blamed Porter and that was the last straw for me.

However, I listened for the first time today of his postgame interview with Toby. He had instructed his kids to exactly as I stated he should have and Sam just, for whatever reason under the pressure of the circumstances, stayed off of Pedulla and just tried to defend the shot. So, I put that on Sam and not Coach. And, the same situation with Dayton in the corner. I blamed Porter for Dayton's not taking the shot and driving the baseline. Again, I was wrong. Porter's play was to drive with Duke and the fall back was Dayton in the corner. Perfect coaching in my mind. Dayton got the ball with time to shoot, and just decided to drive the ball. Under pressure we don't always do what we are supposed to do. Dayton should have take the shot from the corner. Just like Pedulla, a kid running isn't in the sight line from his eyes to the back of the rim.

Lots of people would prefer someone other than Porter to be coach. I might too. But, he hasn't been the disaster some make him out to be, considering the mess he walked into and the complete change in the college game. He will have his third winning season in four years. He has recruited well and shown a good eye for talent in many cases, although he has not been able to retain some players for whatever reasons This year, he had a decent non conference schedule and was undefeated, has won 4 conference games in one of the best conferences in history, and has lost 5 conference games by less than 4 points. In 4 games, he had a lead late and essentially lost on the last possession. mostly with really tough shots by opponents. He is just 5-6 possessions going our way from having an winning record in conference and upper bid in the NCAA Tourney this year.

Frankly, I don't really care what Joe does with Porter after the year. I will support him and the team next year, or if Joe lets him go, I will support whoever he brings in. I am more of a Tubbs philosophy guy than anything else, and I don't think those coaches to exist. So, whether Porter or someone else is the coach, I will be supporting a coach that doesn't have a style consistent with what I prefer. Given the choice, I would like Nate Oats, but he isn't leaving Alabama. So, I am fine with Porter if Joe is. I regret and hereby take back my demote and/or fire Porter posts taken in a fit of post game rage.
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You don't "have" to switch every screen with that much time left. Again, the possession started with 25 seconds left, not 5. When you have a slowa$$ five man, it is malpractice to switch him onto Pedulla with that much time on the clock. Even if Sam defends that to the best of his limited ability, and makes the smart decision to take away the three, you are still looking at a likely layup once Pedulla blows by him. How can you possibly justify that coaching decision?
 
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