Other College BBall Thread 2024-5

It's been covered by folks who have a grudge against Riley and want to find ways to absolve Brent from the blame he deserves. However much decline there had been in Riley's last two years, it was nothing compared to the pace of decline under Brent. Three years in and he has yet to send a player he recruited to the program to the combine in an OU uniform, unless I am forgetting someone.
I don't know that I necessarily agree with all of your viewpoints on BV, and using the number of players going to the combine that weren't recruited by him is a rough way to gauge him at this point since it takes 3 years to even possibly have a guy go from HS to the combine. So this year would've been his first chance for it to happen for non-transfers and that would've been players from his shortened recruiting window when he originally came in.

I'll do my best to lay out guys BV is responsible for below.

Transfers he brought in currently in the league:
Tyler Guyton
Jonah Laulu

Transfers that will likely be invited to the combine:
Kendel Dolby
Deion Burks
Damonic Williams
John Mateer
Marvin Jones Jr (possibly)
Derek Simmons (possibly)
Kendal Daniels (possibly)

HS recruits that have a high probability of being invited to the combine:
Jayden Jackson
David Stone
R Mason Thomas
Kip Lewis
Peyton Bowen
Robert Spears Jennings

HS recruits that could see a combine invite if they make a jump:
Gentry Williams
Kobie McKenzie
Gracen Halton
Jayden Gibson
Jovantae Barnes
Jake Taylor
Jacob Sexton
PJ Adebawore
Logan Howland
Taylor Tatum
Xavier Robinson
Michael Boganowski
Eli Bowen

HS recruits that will likely end up in the league but play elsewhere now:
Nic Anderson
Jackson Arnold
Cayden Green

I did my best to leave off most of the freshman that didn't play this past season but there are a few in that group that could get added as well. Also - to the point about the state of the program when he took over - he was brought in to a team built completely around its offense, with no QBs on the roster, and with no defensive identity whatsoever. Based on the way we got pushed around in that last season under Riley, I don't think it's out of the question to mention that we'd seen a significant falloff from a S&C perspective as well.

I'm not arguing that BV is the guy, I'm just saying that I'm still lukewarm about him at this point which is nowhere near the way I currently feel about Moser and the bball program. This is absolutely a make it or break it year for BV and the football program, and if he doesn't right the ship this season it will likely mean it is time to move in another direction there as well.
 
Wichita: Not that I agree with everything you have said or all of your opinions, but I understand your position on Porter. You couldn't be more wrong on Brent. mictO85 is absolutely right. The program had been spiraling downward every year on Riley and the real reason he left was because he knew what the roster was comprised of and he was never going to be able get another contract, at OU, or anywhere else, if he didn't jump ship while his record would still get him a job. In virtually every way, Brent has improved the football team, save and except last year on offense. The reasons for the offensive woes are several, including a couple put on Brent. But, he has set out to fix those problems. Even great coaches have occasional failures, the question is do they introspectively and intelligently figure out what happened and set in motion proper fixes. I think he has done that with the offense, but only time will tell.

As for Porter, I normally wait a day or two after a loss before posting in order to regain rationality and some sense. I didn't the other day and posted I thought he should be fired. I owe him an apology. Having played sports, watched all manner of sports all my life, and raised a son that played sports until he got out of college, I can say with absolute certainty that just because a kid is coached doesn't mean he always follows that coaching or does what he is told. I was mad at Porter the other day because anyone that has ever watched or played basketball, every coach down to the YMCA kids league, knows that officials abhor calling fouls at the very end of a game and prefer to let the players decide the game. Even with regard to calls they would make nearly every time earlier in the game. With a 2 point lead, I thought Sam not getting out and under Pedulla and forcing him to dribble was so fundamentally flawed as to be unforgiveable and stupid. With a 2 point lead at the end of the game, you have to switch on every screen, body up and stay under the shooters and don't foul them on a shot going to the rim. That's it. It isn't complex. If they get around you, and you can't defend without fouling them, let them have the layup. Then, try and win or go to overtime by taking the last shot. Simple, take losing in regulation out of play. So, when Sam didn't get under Pedulla and stayed off of him so he could cut off a drive to the basket, I blamed Porter and that was the last straw for me.

However, I listened for the first time today of his postgame interview with Toby. He had instructed his kids to do exactly as I stated he should have and Sam just, for whatever reason under the pressure of the circumstances, stayed off of Pedulla and just tried to defend the shot. So, I put that on Sam and not Coach. And, the same situation with Dayton in the corner. I blamed Porter for Dayton's not taking the shot and driving the baseline. Again, I was wrong. Porter's play was to drive with Duke and the fall back was Dayton in the corner. Perfect coaching in my mind. Dayton got the ball with time to shoot, and just decided to drive the ball. Under pressure we don't always do what we are supposed to do. Dayton should have take the shot from the corner. Just like Pedulla, a kid running isn't in the sight line from his eyes to the back of the rim.

Lots of people would prefer someone other than Porter to be coach. I might too. But, he hasn't been the disaster some make him out to be, considering the mess he walked into and the complete change in the college game. He will have his third winning season in four years. He has recruited well and shown a good eye for talent in many cases, although he has not been able to retain some players for whatever reasons This year, he had a decent non conference schedule and was undefeated, has won 4 conference games in one of the best conferences in history, and has lost 5 conference games by less than 4 points. In 4 games, he had a lead late and essentially lost on the last possession. mostly with really tough shots by opponents. He is just 5-6 possessions going our way from having an winning record in conference and upper bid in the NCAA Tourney this year.

Frankly, I don't really care what Joe does with Porter after the year. I will support him and the team next year, or if Joe lets him go, I will support whoever he brings in. I am more of a Tubbs philosophy guy than anything else, and I don't think those coaches to exist. So, whether Porter or someone else is the coach, I will be supporting a coach that doesn't have a style consistent with what I prefer. Given the choice, I would like Nate Oats, but he isn't leaving Alabama. So, I am fine with Porter if Joe is. I regret and hereby take back my demote and/or fire Porter posts taken in a fit of post game rage.
In no universe should Sam Godwin EVER be guarding Sean Pedulla in that situation. Why was he even in the game???? Terrible coaching.
 
I don't know that I necessarily agree with all of your viewpoints on BV, and using the number of players going to the combine that weren't recruited by him is a rough way to gauge him at this point since it takes 3 years to even possibly have a guy go from HS to the combine. So this year would've been his first chance for it to happen for non-transfers and that would've been players from his shortened recruiting window when he originally came in.

I'll do my best to lay out guys BV is responsible for below.

Transfers he brought in currently in the league:
Tyler Guyton
Jonah Laulu

Transfers that will likely be invited to the combine:
Kendel Dolby
Deion Burks
Damonic Williams
John Mateer
Marvin Jones Jr (possibly)
Derek Simmons (possibly)
Kendal Daniels (possibly)

HS recruits that have a high probability of being invited to the combine:
Jayden Jackson
David Stone
R Mason Thomas
Kip Lewis
Peyton Bowen
Robert Spears Jennings

HS recruits that could see a combine invite if they make a jump:
Gentry Williams
Kobie McKenzie
Gracen Halton
Jayden Gibson
Jovantae Barnes
Jake Taylor
Jacob Sexton
PJ Adebawore
Logan Howland
Taylor Tatum
Xavier Robinson
Michael Boganowski
Eli Bowen

HS recruits that will likely end up in the league but play elsewhere now:
Nic Anderson
Jackson Arnold
Cayden Green

I did my best to leave off most of the freshman that didn't play this past season but there are a few in that group that could get added as well. Also - to the point about the state of the program when he took over - he was brought in to a team built completely around its offense, with no QBs on the roster, and with no defensive identity whatsoever. Based on the way we got pushed around in that last season under Riley, I don't think it's out of the question to mention that we'd seen a significant falloff from a S&C perspective as well.

I'm not arguing that BV is the guy, I'm just saying that I'm still lukewarm about him at this point which is nowhere near the way I currently feel about Moser and the bball program. This is absolutely a make it or break it year for BV and the football program, and if he doesn't right the ship this season it will likely mean it is time to move in another direction there as well.
I’d just argue that in this era, portal recruiting is so important that he absolutely should be expected to have brought in guys who would have been at the combine. I bet a huge percentage of guys drafted this season are guys who have transferred in the past three years.
 
Steve —- I totally agree that sam shouldn’t have been in the game. Couldn’t have disagreed more with porters explanation of why he had to be in the game.

Just don’t place his judgment on this to be on the same level as the other mistakes I thought porters made but actually didn’t.
 
Steve —- I totally agree that sam shouldn’t have been in the game. Couldn’t have disagreed more with porters explanation of why he had to be in the game.

Just don’t place his judgment on this to be on the same level as the other mistakes I thought porters made but actually didn’t.
Well his judgment in this specific situation may have cost us the game, and losing this game may have cost us the tournament and him his job.
 
Well his judgment in this specific situation may have cost us the game, and losing this game may have cost us the tournament and him his job.
I think it is arguably his worst decision of all. There is zero rational explanation for defending that possession that way, both in terms of who was on the court and the decision to switch everything, including with our slow five man.
 
I put no stock in your opinion. Nothing personal, but you've made it clear that you only care about those two sports (or maybe it's only men's sports, not sure--doesn't matter).

Jennie B. was a home run hire. K.J. Kindler, Ryan Hybl, Skip Johnson, Nick Crowell...all were home run hires. Retaining Patty Gasso all these years was the equivalent of a home run hire. I'm confident Jim Nagy will prove to be a home run hire--it's certainly viewed that way in the reactions I've seen online. The jury is still out on Venables, but I haven't given up on him. He inherited a mess and then they shifted the move to the SEC up a year. We could be much improved next season and still have a so-so record, with the SEC's penchant for screwing us on scheduling (Teddy Lehman has opined more than once that we have the nation's toughest schedule next season). I'll say this: BV's hiring was widely viewed as a home run at the time.

I know exactly what some will say--that most of the sports I've mentioned are minor ones and don't make a profit. The AD's job is to have good-to-great programs across the board, not just the top two men's sports. And yes, I understand the importance, in financial terms, of those two sports--they also are two of the most important sports to me, personally--but virtually everyone thought BV was a great hire. He may still be if and when the offense gets straightened out--hopefully we're getting there--and we are given the type of easy schedule texas has been handed its first two seasons.

Porter Moser was viewed as a home run hire, too by many fans and by national observers. I questioned the hire from the jump (and haven't had my mind changed), but anyone on this board who was celebrating the hire--and there were more than a few--better at least cop to that before trashing Joe C.

Some continue to downplay it but keeping a major collegiate sports department in the black without direct funding from the university--and in a relatively sparsely populated state--is well nigh miraculous. That's a huge part of what Joe C. is paid to do, and he achieves it year after year. I'm not saying he's perfect, but overall, he does a great job. Anyone who thinks the next AD will be able to wave a magic wand and >poof!< a new arena and a huge pile of NIL money will appear is kidding themselves. Sports fans (well, OU fans at least) seem to insist on reducing complex problems and obstancles--with a team or in this case an entire athletic department--to just one person. Bench that player or fire that assistant and it'll make all the difference. Currently, because we're all frustrated with the results in football and men's basketball, it's fire the AD. Maybe it's the thing to do, but you had better have a can't-miss guy lined up. Because the multitude of issues OU faces in those two sports are not going to be quickly or easily fixed.
Hiring coaches is one area of the job. For the most part, Joe has done a good job. (But you can point to the Gene Stephenson debacle & Pete Hughes just as much as you can to Skip in baseball...)

But, as a fundraiser, Joe has been abysmal. And that's where Joe has dropped the ball on both basketball and football, but also baseball and I'm sure some other sports as well.
 
as a fundraiser, Joe has been abysmal. And that's where Joe has dropped the ball on both basketball and football, but also baseball and I'm sure some other sports as well.
And yet, somehow OU operates in the black, which only a handful of programs manage to do. And the improvement of football facilities has been a constant.

I'll sit back and wait for the day folks are stunned to realize that Joe C's departure and the subsequent hiring of his replacement hasn't resulted in millions of dollars quickly flowing into the coffers and the immediate construction of sparkling new arenas, stadiums and practice facilities for every single sport.
 
And yet, somehow OU operates in the black, which only a handful of programs manage to do. And the improvement of football facilities has been a constant.

I'll sit back and wait for the day folks are stunned to realize that Joe C's departure and the subsequent hiring of his replacement hasn't resulted in millions of dollars quickly flowing into the coffers and the immediate construction of sparkling new arenas, stadiums and practice facilities for every single sport.
Here's the thing. I'm a basketball fan, a baseball fan and a football fan. And frankly, in those three he's 1/3. Do I like what he's done for some of the other sports? Of course I do. But what he's done for the baseball and basketball program is put them behind the 8-ball. Thank God for Skip Johnson. The facilities are 16/16 in the SEC and the basketball facilities aren't much better. The NIL situation for both is bottom third of the SEC. And that's just not acceptable.

He kept the program in the black while letting the facilities - and now the NIL - fall WAY behind our competition. Sometimes, as a not-for-profit you have to spend the money and then fundraise for it. He's taken the opposite approach and it doesn't work.
 
Here's the thing. I'm a basketball fan, a baseball fan and a football fan. And frankly, in those three he's 1/3. Do I like what he's done for some of the other sports? Of course I do. But what he's done for the baseball and basketball program is put them behind the 8-ball. Thank God for Skip Johnson. The facilities are 16/16 in the SEC and the basketball facilities aren't much better. The NIL situation for both is bottom third of the SEC. And that's just not acceptable.

He kept the program in the black while letting the facilities - and now the NIL - fall WAY behind our competition. Sometimes, as a not-for-profit you have to spend the money and then fundraise for it. He's taken the opposite approach and it doesn't work.
And I'm a football, men's and women's basketball, softball and baseball fan. I also think it's great that we're good in golf, men's and women's gymnastics and tennis, but I'll admit that I don't watch those sports so often. But I'm not at all convinced that there are BMDs just dying to throw big bucks at baseball and men's basketball if only someone would ask for it. I think Joe C. probably has stories he could tell about how tough it is to raise dough for just about any sport besides football and maybe softball.
 
And I'm a football, men's and women's basketball, softball and baseball fan. I also think it's great that we're good in golf, men's and women's gymnastics and tennis, but I'll admit that I don't watch those sports so often. But I'm not at all convinced that there are BMDs just dying to throw big bucks at baseball and men's basketball if only someone would ask for it. I think Joe C. probably has stories he could tell about how tough it is to raise dough for just about any sport besides football and maybe softball.
I know sure they could have had a baseball renovation done years ago had they agreed to sell alcohol in the suites.
 
Anyone payed attention to kstate? I can see David Castillo from Bartlesville stats, but curious if he is stuck behind players or just not good or ready for college game? Is he a portal possibility?
 
And yet, somehow OU operates in the black, which only a handful of programs manage to do. And the improvement of football facilities has been a constant.

I'll sit back and wait for the day folks are stunned to realize that Joe C's departure and the subsequent hiring of his replacement hasn't resulted in millions of dollars quickly flowing into the coffers and the immediate construction of sparkling new arenas, stadiums and practice facilities for every single sport.
do fans get a gold star because OU is in the black??


Fundraising is not a quick process .. it will take years and years to fix what Joe has messed up in that regard over the years ..

(joe has nickeled and dimed bball donors for decades) .
 
Anyone payed attention to kstate? I can see David Castillo from Bartlesville stats, but curious if he is stuck behind players or just not good or ready for college game? Is he a portal possibility?
He should be.. Hasn't shot the 3 well but his FTs are 89.5%, so likely just needs more consistent minutes.

We should contact any and all players that have Oklahoma connections every single year. That should be easily tracked. Could hit up the kid from Tech too from oklahoma
 
And I'm a football, men's and women's basketball, softball and baseball fan. I also think it's great that we're good in golf, men's and women's gymnastics and tennis, but I'll admit that I don't watch those sports so often. But I'm not at all convinced that there are BMDs just dying to throw big bucks at baseball and men's basketball if only someone would ask for it. I think Joe C. probably has stories he could tell about how tough it is to raise dough for just about any sport besides football and maybe softball.
Castiglione’s job first and foremost is to be a fundraiser. OU is not Texas or Ohio State but to act like they’re in the bottom third of donor support in the SEC seems to be a convenient excuse for himself/his defenders. Going back to the Big 12, seeing a school like Baylor move through with a new arena in the last 10 years while OU sat on its hands with BH’s success is unconscionable.

Even if you want to disagree that his primary job is more than fundraising, interest rates were generationally low the past decade and Castiglione did little to improve facilities, outside of where a cornerstone donor (Headington, Love) materialized. If there was ever a time to crazy, it was post GFC and Castiglione sat on his hands while others aggressively moved past now OU.

Most damningly IMO, he continues to have little of a plan (at least publicly) in terms of being competitive in the post-Alston world outside of hoping the pay for play NIL clearinghouse emerges and can actually enforce contracts. Success in the rev sports is increasingly correlated with NIL resources and Castiglione seems hesitant to be proactive.
 
Wow. The Moser/Terry death match should be a blast. Texas gagged the last couple minutes of regulation in a way that would make us proud lol.
 
Welp Texas not only gets a Q-1 win, it takes our win over Miss State from Q-1 to Q-2. All sorts of bubble teams doing work the past few days.
 
A&M will blow this

Lol, nevermind!
 
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