OU vs OSU

[O-State2009]

when was the last time we were swept by osu? we just didn't make the shots when we needed them. tough loss.

Not sure about being swept.. But OSU had not won in Norman since 1998!

 

[threepointshooter]

when was the last time we were swept by osu? we just didn't make the shots when we needed them. tough loss.

1998.

Coach Coale and Coach Littell are dead even with each other (5-5) in the five years since he took over at OSU.

 

[SOONERGRAD]

Anyone know why T'Ona barley played tonight? I think she would of contained Patton.

 

[Sooners4Life0101]

TT had 3 mins..... Are you kidding?

That is ridiculous.

Coach Coale is a fantastic coach, one of the best in country. But if there is one knock I got on her its that she definitely plays favorites. You can't tell me that Gabbi deserves 37 mins and TT 3. No Way. Thats not even kind of supportive of what has been going on this season. We were 1-8 in the second half from 3, and they had a post player that was absolutely killing us in the half court. The solution would be to get out and run, or so I would think- and what player arguably gets out and runs better than anybody? TT. Shes also in on every loose ball. She is a shutdown defender. That just isn't even right to do that to her... SC was also bias by playing Kk at the end instead of VV, i believe. I feel like VV has passed KK- which is probably a hard thing to deal with because its not by mountains, but I do think she has become a better player, and should be playing at the end, and its unfortunate that this is happening.

Coach Coale is a great coach- no questions asked- but sometimes I feel like, her heart gets in the way of her head. KK is a senior and I think she really likes Gabbi- has from the beginning. Not an inditement on Ortiz, who actually played pretty well, but Tt has an astronomically higher ceiling and deserves WAY more than 3 mins in a game like that.... That ain't right.

 

[sybarite]

Anyone know why T'Ona barley played tonight? I think she would of contained Patton.

I wasn't sure she had played. The ESPN box score didn't list her at all. The SoonerSports.com site says she played three minutes. But, she has zero stats. Everyone else was at least doing something.

 

[sybarite]

I'll try to respond. But, my response is somewhat less than enthusiastic or complete. I do now remember that T'Ona played a bit, and they remarked that a 5-5 guard was now on a 5-4 guard.

If you look beyond the box on scoring, Gabbi, Maddie, Peyton, and Gioya were doing pretty well, other than they weren't hitting shots in the second half. Gabbi led us in rebounds. Maddie was second.

At one point, I looked to see why we weren't able to get a defensive rebound. The only players under the basket for OU (inside of Jensen) were Gabbi and Peyton. Where was Kay Kay? Jensen went over Gabbi's back, but Gabbi was so short that they didn't seem to notice that. They did call a foul on the putback on Gioya who had moved in to help. I think Treece was in for Kay Kay at the point, but she was nowhere near the basket.

Look beyond the scoring column. The only reason that we had a chance was that Maddie had three steals, and Peyton and Gioya had two. There were actually more turnovers than that that they caused. Gabbi had seven rebounds, Maddie six, Peyton four. Maddie blocked a couple of shots, but didn't get credit for it. We did get an OSU turnover when they couldn't get a shot off because Maddie had blocked it, and they lost control. Maddie got called for two fouls that were bad calls, as pointed out by the announcers. She blocked the shots cleanly.

Another reason that Gabbi might have been playing was that we needed Gabbi's free throw shooting ability. She is our best from the line, and we were over the limit. We didn't take advantage of it, shooting 61%. But, we also had very few turnovers, and T'Ona does do that.

I can see where Sherri might decide to keep Gabbi on the floor. It might have been better if she had brought in T'Ona rather than Derica when Gioya got gassed.

 

[Sooners4Life0101]

I'll try to respond. But, my response is somewhat less than enthusiastic or complete. I do now remember that T'Ona played a bit, and they remarked that a 5-5 guard was now on a 5-4 guard.

If you look beyond the box on scoring, Gabbi, Maddie, Peyton, and Gioya were doing pretty well, other than they weren't hitting shots in the second half. Gabbi led us in rebounds. Maddie was second.

At one point, I looked to see why we weren't able to get a defensive rebound. The only players under the basket for OU (inside of Jensen) were Gabbi and Peyton. Where was Kay Kay? Jensen went over Gabbi's back, but Gabbi was so short that they didn't seem to notice that. They did call a foul on the putback on Gioya who had moved in to help. I think Treece was in for Kay Kay at the point, but she was nowhere near the basket.

Look beyond the scoring column. The only reason that we had a chance was that Maddie had three steals, and Peyton and Gioya had two. There were actually more turnovers than that that they caused. Gabbi had seven rebounds, Maddie six, Peyton four. Maddie blocked a couple of shots, but didn't get credit for it. We did get an OSU turnover when they couldn't get a shot off because Maddie had blocked it, and they lost control. Maddie got called for two fouls that were bad calls, as pointed out by the announcers. She blocked the shots cleanly.

Another reason that Gabbi might have been playing was that we needed Gabbi's free throw shooting ability. She is our best from the line, and we were over the limit. We didn't take advantage of it, shooting 61%. But, we also had very few turnovers, and T'Ona does do that.

I can see where Sherri might decide to keep Gabbi on the floor. It might have been better if she had brought in T'Ona rather than Derica when Gioya got gassed.

Yeah I hear ya Syb. And Im not saying that TT should totally supplant Gabbi from the lineup, but there is just no imaginable circumstance that would lead me to think she should have 95% of the minutes. I think Gabbi is a nice player, could at some point be a very good player- and even still couldn't offer what TT offers. As you know I've become really high on TT this season, she is in your pocket on every whistle and can really run the break. I also think her shot is developing too, she just needs minutes to develop some confidence... I wonder if TT was a prized recruit, would SC play her like that? I think if she was a prized recruit Gabbi would be playing the 3 and TT 37, she's been that good this year imo. And I honestly just feel bad that that is how she is rewarded. Its not very fair to me.

 

[sybarite]

Yeah I hear ya Syb. And Im not saying that TT should totally supplant Gabbi from the lineup, but there is just no imaginable circumstance that would lead me to think she should have 95% of the minutes. I think Gabbi is a nice player, could at some point be a very good player- and even still couldn't offer what TT offers. As you know I've become really high on TT this season, she is in your pocket on every whistle and can really run the break. I also think her shot is developing too, she just needs minutes to develop some confidence... I wonder if TT was a prized recruit, would SC play her like that? I think if she was a prized recruit Gabbi would be playing the 3 and TT 37, she's been that good this year imo. And I honestly just feel bad that that is how she is rewarded. Its not very fair to me.

I think just about the opposite. I think T'Ona is maybe Sherri's favorite player. She loves her, and I think she may give her too much time. She is learning. But, she is a junior and still has no shot and is poor at free throws. I'm not thrilled when a junior hasn't learned to hit free throws. She ought to have some kind of shot right now.

I think the only reason that she is getting as much time as she has is that Gabbi has had a rather disappointing year. She makes too many mistakes for a guard who played for the national team. She needs to get herself under control. But, in a close game, I want Gabbi to hit those free throws.

 

[womenssports]

Sherri made a terrible error in pulling ViVi to put KK back in. BiVi was eating them alive. Bad coaching decision.

We couldn't stop them from getting threes and FT misses were horrendous.

We had our chances and just couldn't hit in 2nd half.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When she put KK in for Vivi, I was thinking that might not be a good move. I was wondering if she was thinking "experience."

 

[Sooners4Life0101]

I think just about the opposite. I think T'Ona is maybe Sherri's favorite player. She loves her, and I think she may give her too much time. She is learning. But, she is a junior and still has no shot and is poor at free throws. I'm not thrilled when a junior hasn't learned to hit free throws. She ought to have some kind of shot right now.

I think the only reason that she is getting as much time as she has is that Gabbi has had a rather disappointing year. She makes too many mistakes for a guard who played for the national team. She needs to get herself under control. But, in a close game, I want Gabbi to hit those free throws.

Speed kills though Syb. Tt can speed your whole team up by herself... And I do really like Gabbi as a player, but an undersized guard with out that much speed can only become so good, and I feel like she could only get incrementally better- felt that way last year.

TT might not be "shooting" well. But I've noticed a huge difference in her shooting fundamentals, and I personally think the stroke looks good this season... She was truly the worst player on our team last season, now I believe if she gets minutes to develop she could be one of the best PGs in the conference- and thats all centered around her speed- as well as toughness.


Who was that last shot on by Martin?? Ortiz. I like Gabbi, but she is open season for a good scorer. Martin just flat out ran right through her.

 

[SoonerNorm]

When she put KK in for Vivi, I was thinking that might not be a good move. I was wondering if she was thinking "experience."

She may have been thinking experience but, ViVi had the hot hand in the second half and she was giving OSU fits inside. I'm sure Littell was glad to see ViVi go to the bench.

 

[womenssports]

TT had 3 mins..... Are you kidding?

That is ridiculous.

Coach Coale is a fantastic coach, one of the best in country. But if there is one knock I got on her its that she definitely plays favorites. You can't tell me that Gabbi deserves 37 mins and TT 3. No Way. Thats not even kind of supportive of what has been going on this season. We were 1-8 in the second half from 3, and they had a post player that was absolutely killing us in the half court. The solution would be to get out and run, or so I would think- and what player arguably gets out and runs better than anybody? TT. Shes also in on every loose ball. She is a shutdown defender. That just isn't even right to do that to her... SC was also bias by playing Kk at the end instead of VV, i believe. I feel like VV has passed KK- which is probably a hard thing to deal with because its not by mountains, but I do think she has become a better player, and should be playing at the end, and its unfortunate that this is happening.

Coach Coale is a great coach- no questions asked- but sometimes I feel like, her heart gets in the way of her head. KK is a senior and I think she really likes Gabbi- has from the beginning. Not an inditement on Ortiz, who actually played pretty well, but Tt has an astronomically higher ceiling and deserves WAY more than 3 mins in a game like that.... That ain't right.

That really surprised me. Even if she had no stats during those three minutes, that is not unusual for any player. The way she has been playing with defense and rebounds, I can't believe she didn't get more time. I am wondering if she has had bad practices since the Iowa game, otherwise, I just don't get it.

 

[SoonerinNC]

We lost because our best shooters missed key free shots and that long scoreless stretch late in the third quarter.

Also they got better shots. We forced a lot.

We needed to help more on Jensen. She hurt us the first game and is too strong to play one on one after she gets the ball.

For a team with so many so called good shooters we miss a lot of shots from the outside.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

It is interesting to read everyone's comments. It is clear that Sherri has no idea who she ought to be playing, and it has been that way all year. When you tie all the comments together that is what they are shouting.

Even tonight we ended up with some of the weirdest combinations on the floor together. The players have been hamstrung from learning to play as a team. It isn't a team. It is a bunch of players who go in for a few minutes, then a couple of subs, then a different set of subs, etc.

A player will play 25 minutes one game, then play 3 minutes the next. You cannot be successful like that.

Derica has been by far our best shooter all year. So she benched her. Now she has lost her confidence - as anyone could have told you would happen. Tonight we desperately needed SOMEONE who could make a basket. It should have been Derica, but she is probably finished.

Maddie has zero confidence in her 3 point shot. 10 times tonight she received the ball in perfect position to shoot the three, but turned it down. While it is true she plays lots of minutes she probably plays with 15 different combinations of teammates in every game.

I doubt you can find a single other team in the country whose players are having to deal with that this late in the season.

I suspect in our next game, EJ will play 28 minutes, TT 30, Derica 25, Shaya 18, Gabbi 7, Maddie 3 or 4, etc. Sherri is clearly confused about how to use and combine these kids. The question is why? I admit I'm being a bit facetious with this last paragraph - but if you think about what we have been doing, it is not that farfetched.

But why is Sherri doing the substitutions like this? It CANNOT work.

 

[sybarite]

I think that Sherri has a difficult problem. Maddie is still recovering a lot of her flow, as well as her confidence in her shot. But, I think that is from two years off rather than due to a recent foot injury. If you watched Maddie during the past two games, she played such a good all-around game that she would be on the floor with lesser productivity. She is the one that seems to stir things up---she and T'Ona.

Gioya is recovering. In the first part of the game, her shot was on. She made a couple of shots early in the second half. But, did you notice her shots late in the first half? They were quite a bit short. She was exhausted. When fresh, she is pretty good, although she can't hit a three any more. Last year, she was pretty good from three. She needs to recover more, and she needs more stamina. I think what I have seen in late January is far superior than what I saw in early January.

Peyton is a bit of a mystery. She seems to be able to hit only in one half recently. But, she is a part of the best flow.

I think the mistake that Sherri might make is how to deal with where she has substituting opportunities: Kay Kay and Vivi, Gabbi and T'Ona. I don't think Kay Kay and Gabbi have been what Sherri expected this year, pretty inconsistent. When we lose, it tends to be in games in which Kay Kay doesn't do much or shoots poorly. She is probably the best indicator of how the game is going. When she is able to score, it helps create a flow. You never know how Vivi will perform. I am a bit higher on Vivi than Sherri.

You also don't exactly know what you will get with T'Ona or Gabbi. It's not just whether they score. It is how they contribute to the flow of the game. Both can create it. But, both have a propensity to destroy it as well.

I hope it begins to bloom in March.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

I think that Sherri has a difficult problem. Maddie is still recovering a lot of her flow, as well as her confidence in her shot. But, I think that is from two years off rather than due to a recent foot injury. If you watched Maddie during the past two games, she played such a good all-around game that she would be on the floor with lesser productivity. She is the one that seems to stir things up---she and T'Ona.

Gioya is recovering. In the first part of the game, her shot was on. She made a couple of shots early in the second half. But, did you notice her shots late in the first half? They were quite a bit short. She was exhausted. When fresh, she is pretty good, although she can't hit a three any more. Last year, she was pretty good from three. She needs to recover more, and she needs more stamina. I think what I have seen in late January is far superior than what I saw in early January.

Peyton is a bit of a mystery. She seems to be able to hit only in one half recently. But, she is a part of the best flow.

I think the mistake that Sherri might make is how to deal with where she has substituting opportunities: Kay Kay and Vivi, Gabbi and T'Ona. I don't think Kay Kay and Gabbi have been what Sherri expected this year, pretty inconsistent. When we lose, it tends to be in games in which Kay Kay doesn't do much or shoots poorly. She is probably the best indicator of how the game is going. When she is able to score, it helps create a flow. You never know how Vivi will perform. I am a bit higher on Vivi than Sherri.

You also don't exactly know what you will get with T'Ona or Gabbi. It's not just whether they score. It is how they contribute to the flow of the game. Both can create it. But, both have a propensity to destroy it as well.

I hope it begins to bloom in March.

Good thoughts, Syb.

But March is a long way off. Unless we learn to play as a team we will be sitting home watching the tournament. This is a weak team. Oh, they get lucky and have a good quarter once a game, but they never play a complete game. The North Texas game showed what kind of team we had. Unfortunately, nothing has happened since to suggest they are better than that. They gave up on practicing free throws and it shows. Our inside players are apparently dirtier and so they foul far more than anyone else in the conference. We are one of the worst 3 pt shooting teams in the country. 4 of 17 is miserable. My 90 year old grandmother can do better than that. But she practiced back in the day.

They will be very, very lucky to beat TCU this weekend. After that it appears likely they lose 3 straight. We can look forward to the Kansas game on the 20th for a possible win.

Great teams do like OSU tonight. Even though they shoot less than 24% on the year, when they need to, they can easily hit 6 or so in a 4th quarter. I'm sure they will now be a consistent 60% 3 pt shooting team the rest of the year.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Sherri loves shooting threes. However, we are dead last in the league in 3pt fg %. That's a problem.

We have a roster full of role players but we have no stars. None. That's a problem.

This is why some of us continue to say we have a recruiting problem. Sherri isn't going to fix our problems in practice. She just isn't.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

Sherri loves shooting threes. However, we are dead last in the league in 3pt fg %. That's a problem.

We have a roster full of role players but we have no stars. None. That's a problem.

This is why some of us continue to say we have a recruiting problem. Sherri isn't going to fix our problems in practice. She just isn't.

And it doesn't help when we bench our best - by far - 3 point shooter.

 

[sybarite]

Peyton 410--387
Kaylon 596--554
Gioya 400--485
Gabbi 359--348
Maddie 436--354
Derica 324--379
Vivi 495--608

Peyton 344--310
Kaylon 000--000
Gioya 333--059
Gabbi 333--337
Maddie 414--316
Derica 317--357
Vivi 000--000

Peyton 786--730
Kaylon 618--688
Gioya 793--647
Gabbi 702--885
Maddie 773--766
Derica 556--667
Vivi 508--667

Above are the field goal percentages, three point percentages, and free throw percentages of last year---this year. With the exception of Gabbi, Derica, and Vivi, everyone is down this year. What was a good shooting team, based on last year's percentages, has declined. Is it the odds? Why would it fall?

 

[TheMont]

Man, syb. Those percentages are bleak. And totally perplexing.

I, too, am a bit confused (as I think Sherri is) about recent substitution patterns. However, I think I understand why T'Ona didn't get more minutes last night. It's because Gabbi was a very solid floor general last night.

She pushed the ball when we needed to and slowed us down when we needed it
She made consistently good post entry passes
She played with energy and kept everyone else on the floor fired up
She shot 50%
2:1 assist to turnover ratio
She was our leading rebounder for pete's sake

We needed her in the game. Not only that, but we needed the ball in her hands. Whenever Gabbi and T'Ona play together, TT is the PG and Gabbi slides over to the 2. TT isn't an ideal 2 because she isn't a threat from outside, so Gabbi at the 1 with TT at the 2 isn't really an option.

Why Derica didn't play more at the 2 alongside Gabbi and Gioya/Maddie/Peyton is beyond me.

Unrelated, but I think that something Sherri deserves a lot of praise for is her Xs and Os ability in late game situations. Throughout the years, she's consistently drawn up great plays when we need a basket. The inbounds play to Gioya followed by the iso play for Kaylon in the post were things of beauty. The 2nd one just didn't fall.