sam godwin

[skyvue]

I can be both happy that Sam is a representative of the university, and bothered by the fact that he is our starting center. Those things do not have to be mutually exclusive.

Absolutely. But I would suggest, then, that the criticism should be aimed elsewhere. Sam has done his part. He's busted his ass, comported himself well and done his best to fill a role he should never have been expected to play. It's not his fault that a better player hasn't been brought in. And yet he gets more criticism than any other player, several of whom are contributing less than he does.

 

[Sooner Season]

See, this take bothers me a bit that this narrative gets presented that people commenting on players' performance are seen as personal attacks on the player. And here is why. I have seen quite literally not a single person say in the entirety of the three seasons Godwin has played here that they felt that Sam was a bad person, or that he was a poor representative of the university. Nor have I seen any of those things stated about Forsythe, Wague, or Northweather. How people feel about their performances says nothing about how people feel about them as people.

My take on this is that people need to be able to separate criticism of the player's performance from criticism of them as people. They are being paid to do a job, and when they do not perform it will get called out. Players are quite literally making hundreds of thousands of dollars on top of scholarships to be able to play a game. With that privilege comes the pressure and expectation to perform. I can be both happy that Sam is a representative of the university, and bothered by the fact that he is our starting center. Those things do not have to be mutually exclusive.

Point blank, Sam is not good enough to be a starting P4 center. This has been proven out time and time again. You can see it with your eyes and you can see it by the advanced numbers. Whether people like it or not, this is what these guys signed up for when they chose to play high-level college basketball. "Pressure is a privilege" as Joe Mazzulla (Celtics HC) so eloquently stated when people were talking about the pressure placed on Jayson Tatum to perform. It isn't "he HAS to deal with this". It's "he GETS to deal with this".

This is a very good post. Criticizing Sam is fine if you want to look at what’s he’s not. I choose to look at what he is, as limited as it may be. But when someone says we need Sam back and to say no thanks? Seriously?? We need Sam, we need Wague, we need Northeeather all to be available to give us any chance.

 

[BoulderSooner]

Absolutely. But I would suggest, then, that the criticism should be aimed elsewhere. Sam has done his part. He's busted his ass, comported himself well and done his best to fill a role he should never have been expected to play. It's not his fault that a better player hasn't been brought in. And yet he gets more criticism than any other player, several of whom are contributing less than he does.

i think you could make a legit argument that Sam (if he wanted to be the best version of himself as an SEC basketball player) should weigh s more then he does and be much much stronger ..

and those 2 things would be on him right ??

 

[BoulderSooner]

This is a very good post. Criticizing Sam is fine if you want to look at what’s he’s not. I choose to look at what he is, as limited as it may be. But when someone says we need Sam back and to say no thanks? Seriously?? We need Sam, we need Wague, we need Northeeather all to be available to give us any chance.

OU is a better basketall team when sam is not on the court ..

 

[BossFan64]

Give me 12 Kams every day.

That’s definitely not the answer, either.
Look, you’ve made your opinion clear on Godwin, and you have every right to have that opinion. But after the 200th angry take on him, I can’t help but wonder: Does he owe you money? Did he steal your girlfriend? Did he back into your car?

 

[cbertus6]

Absolutely. But I would suggest, then, that the criticism should be aimed elsewhere. Sam has done his part. He's busted his ass, comported himself well and done his best to fill a role he should never have been expected to play. It's not his fault that a better player hasn't been brought in. And yet he gets more criticism than any other player, several of whom are contributing less than he does.

Truth be told, I generally believe most of the angst regarding Sam has actually been directed at Moser. But fact of the matter is, Sam is the weakest link of the starters and one of the weakest of all the major contributors. Our weakest part of the team is supposed to be his strength, and he hasn’t pulled his weight in that department this year (rebounding). His BPR on Evan Miya is only ahead of Goodine, Forsythe, and Northweather of the major contributors. There aren’t many that have contributed less this season, and two of the three listed above definitely get griped about

 

[skyvue]

two of the three listed above definitely get griped about

Not nearly as much as Sam does. And all three have gotten the "He sucks!/Give him more minutes!/He sucks!" treatment at various points in the season. Sam gets just the "He sucks!" part. As someone pointed out above (and I posted the day he got hurt), before the injury he'd hit 19 shots in a row, but you'd never know it by reading this board.

There's one player virtually every season who comes in for an inordinate amount of blame here. This year, it's Sam, one of the few guys (Moore, perhaps, being the only other) who's being asked to play a role he wasn't meant for.

 

[WichitaSooner]

That’s definitely not the answer, either.
Look, you’ve made your opinion clear on Godwin, and you have every right to have that opinion. But after the 200th angry take on him, I can’t help but wonder: Does he owe you money? Did he steal your girlfriend? Did he back into your car?

I have never said a negative word about Sam Godwin as a person. Would like to have a guy like him as our third big. And I’m actually the one in this post who has been arguing that we will be better off if he is available in some capacity tomorrow. My “anger” in this thread is directed at the holier-than-thou folks who continue arguing that “Sam plays hard and is a darn fine human” and therefore shouldn’t have his basketball ability criticized ON A BASKETBALL MESSAGE BOARD. Really, guys, it’s not the end of the world if some posters think the team is better off without him. I disagree with that specific take, but I don’t think people who think that are jerks for having a basketball opinion.

 

[Skeeter1]

I have never said a negative word about Sam Godwin as a person. Would like to have a guy like him as our third big. And I’m actually the one in this post who has been arguing that we will be better off if he is available in some capacity tomorrow. My “anger” in this thread is directed at the holier-than-thou folks who continue arguing that “Sam plays hard and is a darn fine human” and therefore shouldn’t have his basketball ability criticized ON A BASKETBALL MESSAGE BOARD. Really, guys, it’s not the end of the world if some posters think the team is better off without him. I disagree with that specific take, but I don’t think people who think that are jerks for having a basketball opinion.

. Boomer

 

[cbertus6]

Not nearly as much as Sam does. And all three have gotten the "He sucks!/Give him more minutes!/He sucks!" treatment at various points in the season. Sam gets just the "He sucks!" part. As someone pointed out above (and I posted the day he got hurt), before the injury he'd hit 19 shots in a row, but you'd never know it by reading this board.

There's one player virtually every season who comes in for an inordinate amount of blame here. This year, it's Sam, one of the few guys (Moore, perhaps, being the only other) who's being asked to play a role he wasn't meant for.

Ehh... Goodine catches a LOT of flak - I know because I’m one of the many giving it - and the only reason Northweather doesn’t get more is because he doesn’t hardly play. If Northweather was playing Sam’s minutes he’d get the same treatment (honestly, probably worse).

And it’s not like Sam is being asked to play a completely different position. He’s playing the position he’s likely played his whole life. When a player signs up to play for a team, he is going to want to start. Do you think Sam doesn’t want to be starting? And if his expectation of himself is to start, again, it should be met with the expectation that he’s going to be held to a starter’s standard.

It sucks that Sam hasn’t lived up to the billing, but at the end of the day he just hasn’t. Kobe Elvis gets quite a bit of hate too and he’s been way more productive for the team than Sam. This is what comes with the territory.

 

[MJSooner]

Not nearly as much as Sam does. And all three have gotten the "He sucks!/Give him more minutes!/He sucks!" treatment at various points in the season. Sam gets just the "He sucks!" part. As someone pointed out above (and I posted the day he got hurt), before the injury he'd hit 19 shots in a row, but you'd never know it by reading this board.

There's one player virtually every season who comes in for an inordinate amount of blame here. This year, it's Sam, one of the few guys (Moore, perhaps, being the only other) who's being asked to play a role he wasn't meant for.

And I promise you, Jalon Moore, especially the last 3 or so weeks, has missed as many easy layups at the rim, was outmuscled in the paint, and of course, the LSU game.

Not defending Sam at all, other than his hustle and effort, but our first/second best player (depending on the game) does the exact same things which Godwin takes heat.

Jalon, of course, has 10x more talent and athleticism on an off day than Godwin does. But both players are playing a bit out of position. And no doubt, Jalon has proven he can be "the guy" throughout this season. I'm just saying he seems to get no criticism for doing the exact same things at times that Sam does which gets him blasted.

And, yeah, I agree with Boulder- Wague should be playing more minutes than Sam. Probably deserves to start. I think he leads the team in charges taken. If Hump and PM can find a way to keep him out of foul trouble, he can be MUCH better than Godwin. And Northweather played the 5 well on Saturday. Sam should be 15-20 minutes tops.

Yeah, I think it sucks Sam is our starting center in the SEC. But I don't blame him for it. He came to OU as a walkon looking for a chance and instead, he's shoved to a starting 5 in the two toughest conferences in basketball. That's not on him. Certainly, get upset for his mistakes, but doesn't take long to see the same mistakes being made by others, too.

 

[cbertus6]

And I promise you, Jalon Moore, especially the last 3 or so weeks, has missed as many easy layups at the rim, was outmuscled in the paint, and of course, the LSU game.

Not defending Sam at all, other than his hustle and effort, but our first/second best player (depending on the game) does the exact same things which Godwin takes heat.

Jalon, of course, has 10x more talent and athleticism on an off day than Godwin does. But both players are playing a bit out of position. And no doubt, Jalon has proven he can be "the guy" throughout this season. I'm just saying he seems to get no criticism for doing the exact same things at times that Sam does which gets him blasted.

Yeah, I think it sucks Sam is our starting center in the SEC. But I don't blame him for it. He came to OU as a walkon looking for a chance and instead, he's shoved to a starting 5 in the two toughest conferences in basketball. That's not on him. Certainly, get upset for his mistakes, but doesn't take long to see the same mistakes being made by others, too.

I’ve seen a number of posters call Jalon out for being weak on the boards, and in fact, I’ve done so myself throughout the season. As a matter of fact I believe there was a conversation on this board just the other day about him losing the LSU game for us if I’m not mistaken. But Jalon does enough good most nights to offset the bad which is why he doesn’t catch as much heat.

Sam is averaging barely over 5 rebounds a game this year, which is actually less than Moore. He doesn’t offer much of any rim protection. He isn’t an efficient scorer. He isn’t a volume scorer. He isn’t a particularly good FT shooter. He’s not a very good on ball defender. So the problem is that his deficiencies are glaring and he doesn’t have much else positive to offset them.

 

[TEvans4Three]

Brother, you guys like to strain at gnats. The point is the same, he's not all conference, he's not a stiff, he's a decent player who gives maximum effort. He has indeed had multiple double figure games in both points and rebounds, sometimes in the same game, which is better than anyone we have had at the 5 position for several years. You all can cite your analytics and semantics and nitpick all you want. In light of the dearth of good news we have had to celebrate over the last 4 years, I choose to celebrate a good Oklahoma Sooner who stayed here 3 years and plays his butt off. You guys can diss if you want.

You are moving the goalposts. You said 20 and 15 occasionally, I pointed out you were wrong. Its okay. The stats say the opposite of what you are saying. That was my point.

Tanner was a much better 5 than Sam. Sam is great coming off the bench. Our recruiting has put Sam in an awful position. I love what Sam has given to the team, but we have the weakest frontcourt in my memory.

Love Sam as a Sooner, but to pretend he is a solid P5 starter is just covering your eyes and walking off a cliff. Regardless of how much you want to ignore the stats, analytics, and +/- numbers. That's not taking anything away from him and his effort and being a solid Sooner.

. Boomer

WS is spot on here, you are just a troll on this board. Please refrain from posting.

 

[Sooner Season]

You are moving the goalposts. You said 20 and 15 occasionally, I pointed out you were wrong. Its okay. The stats say the opposite of what you are saying. That was my point.

Tanner was a much better 5 than Sam. Sam is great coming off the bench. Our recruiting has put Sam in an awful position. I love what Sam has given to the team, but we have the weakest frontcourt in my memory.

Love Sam as a Sooner, but to pretend he is a solid P5 starter is just covering your eyes and walking off a cliff. Regardless of how much you want to ignore the stats, analytics, and +/- numbers. That's not taking anything away from him and his effort and being a solid Sooner.



WS is spot on here, you are just a troll on this board. Please refrain from posting.

Never said he is a solid P5 starter. Who’s moving the goal posts?

And you contrasting “occassionally” with “rare” and dividing numbers to get percentages seems you just want to argue and ignore my overall point. Which is, I appreciate Sam’s talent as limited as it may be and his effort is above reproach and I appreciate that even more. If it’s a crime to like a guy who loves being a Sooner and gets the most out of what he’s got, call me guilty

Seems you’re normally above all of this.

 

[Sooner Season]

OU is a better basketall team when sam is not on the court

 

[Sooner Season]

That’s a fair opinion if you believe that, but to imply we are better off not having him available at all seems just silly to me.

 

[steverocks35]

These guys are pros. It’s okay to criticize them on a basketball message board.

 

[steverocks35]

That’s a fair opinion if you believe that, but to imply we are better off not having him available at all seems just silly to me.

He said “on the court.” We need him to be available to spell Wague.

 

[opsooner]

No surprise but being reported tbat Godwin is a No Go tomorrow.

 

[Sooner Season]

not really

That’s not what he said here………..