Selection Show - OU an 8 seed

[euphguy]

Eric Musselman just wins where ever he goes. He'd have been a solid option at OU.

+1

 

[WTSooner]

Glad we made it after losing all those close games. If we won even 3 of those games we probably get a solid 5 seed or so.

Or we could have lost some of the close ones we won, and have been in even worse shape.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Gibson leaves NT for OU, and according to seeds, literally only moved up about 9 or 14 seed places. lol

NT probably has the better chance of winning two games too. Sad though.

Does it ever get tiring being factually wrong so often? The NCAA releases the true seed list. I’d tell you to check it out, but know you don’t care about facts.

 

[Eielson]

If we beat Gonzaga, I will livestream a video of myself eating a hat. As I've been saying for a while, this team can beat anybody but also lose to anybody. Every game will be a dogfight whether we're a 2 seed or a 12 seed.

Gonzaga is that one team we simply can't hang with. Their starting five could be ruled out from COVID contact tracing, and I'm still not putting money on us.

I'll still be watching, though. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[sheepdogs1]

If we beat Gonzaga, I will livestream a video of myself eating a hat. As I've been saying for a while, this team can beat anybody but also lose to anybody. Every game will be a dogfight whether we're a 2 seed or a 12 seed.

Gonzaga is that one team we simply can't hang with. Their starting five could be ruled out from COVID contact tracing, and I'm still not putting money on us.

I'll still be watching, though. Hope I'm wrong.

A sombrero is probably one of the healthier choices.

 

[WaymanFan]

Or we could have lost some of the close ones we won, and have been in even worse shape.

Look, I'm as disappointed as anyone over yet another late-season collapse that has put us in this predicament yet once again. I'm not disagreeing with most of what you're saying. However, you never seem to be here when things are going well. Would I be off base in guessing you have more posts on this one thread than you had the entire month of January? As such, you have to understand why so many posters don't appreciate when you post endless negativity about the program. It's no more refreshing than reading posts from those who believe we should be happy just squeezing into the Tournament every year.

I had a bad feeling things were going to spiral out of control once we could not hang on to beat KSU. It was an inexcusable loss...and five straight seasons of not playing our best ball heading into March has long worn thin on my nerves. About the only thing that will make this season a success is an upset over Gonzaga.

 

[OUSKINS]

I think the late season collapse is being slightly overstated. In my estimation, we only had one bad loss in there— at Manhattan. The other four were against teams I all consider to be legit F4 threats— and each of those games was close late. Yes, no doubt to lose ALL of them is frustrating. And it’s been a late-season Lon trend in recent years so I have no issue with people pointing that out as a flaw. However, we may have also just experienced a little regression to the mean as well. We probably overachieved during the 7/8 streak and got some good bounces to win the close ones. Then, it sort of reversed on us down the stretch.

I terms of raw talent, OU is probably a bubble-type team. In that regard, we probably played a touch over our heads this year. On the negative side of that, a big part of sports (and life) is taking advantage of a good situation— and we failed to do that. We had a solid seed LOCKED up and we let it slip away. So even if we wound up about where we should, I still understand the frustration.

But ultimately, OU is pretty much in the same spot we’ve been for four straight years. A 10 seed in 2018. A 9 seed in 2019. Probably headed for a 9/10 in 2020. And now an 8 seed in 2021. We are sort of stuck in this spot. It’s not an awful place to be stuck, but it’s frustrating and maybe even a bit boring. Doesn’t feel like there is much upside or hope for things to improve anytime soon. So I think we see some overly exaggerated negative comments based on that.

Having said all that, opportunity knocks. They can certainly beat Mizzou. And Mizzou can certainly beat us. If it goes our way, then we will get a shot at Goliath a week from Monday.

 

[allday92]

I think the late season collapse is being slightly overstated. In my estimation, we only had one bad loss in there— at Manhattan. The other four were against teams I all consider to be legit F4 threats— and each of those games was close late. Yes, no doubt to lose ALL of them is frustrating. And it’s been a late-season Lon trend in recent years so I have no issue with people pointing that out as a flaw. However, we may have also just experienced a little regression to the mean as well. We probably overachieved during the 7/8 streak and got some good bounces to win the close ones. Then, it sort of reversed on us down the stretch.

I terms of raw talent, OU is probably a bubble-type team. In that regard, we probably played a touch over our heads this year. On the negative side of that, a big part of sports (and life) is taking advantage of a good situation— and we failed to do that. We had a solid seed LOCKED up and we let it slip away. So even if we wound up about where we should, I still understand the frustration.

But ultimately, OU is pretty much in the same spot we’ve been for four straight years. A 10 seed in 2018. A 9 seed in 2019. Probably headed for a 9/10 in 2020. And now an 8 seed in 2021. We are sort of stuck in this spot. It’s not an awful place to be stuck, but it’s frustrating and maybe even a bit boring. Doesn’t feel like there is much upside or hope for things to improve anytime soon. So I think we see some overly exaggerated negative comments based on that.

Having said all that, opportunity knocks. They can certainly beat Mizzou. And Mizzou can certainly beat us. If it goes our way, then we will get a shot at Goliath a week from Monday.

This times 1000. Part of the frustration is that we've seen the same season play out four years in a row. Hopefully, Lon can hit on an immediate impact transfer for next year or a big high school recruit in the 2022 class. The program needs a shot in the arm in some way.

 

[soonerbms]

But ultimately, OU is pretty much in the same spot we’ve been for four straight years. A 10 seed in 2018. A 9 seed in 2019. Probably headed for a 9/10 in 2020. And now an 8 seed in 2021. We are sort of stuck in this spot. It’s not an awful place to be stuck, but it’s frustrating and maybe even a bit boring. Doesn’t feel like there is much upside or hope for things to improve anytime soon. So I think we see some overly exaggerated negative comments based on that.

Is this an acceptable standard for OU basketball? I don’t expect us to get to the Final Four every year, but we’ve been garbage since the 2016 run. Is it too much to ask to be in the conference race every year and to be a threat to make a Sweet 16 run? Once Kelvin Sampson had built his program, we were consistently good. Take a look at Sampson’s final six years at OU.

2000 - 3 seed
2001 - 4 seed
2002 - 2 seed
2003 - 1 seed
2004 - missed tournament
2005 - 3 seed
2006 - 6 seed

We also won 20 games in each of those season. Not one player from those teams went to the NBA if I remember right, but we were competitive every year. Why can’t we get back to that?

 

[Soonermarty]

Is this an acceptable standard for OU basketball? I don’t expect us to get to the Final Four every year, but we’ve been garbage since the 2016 run. Is it too much to ask to be in the conference race every year and to be a threat to make a Sweet 16 run? Once Kelvin Sampson had built his program, we were consistently good. Take a look at Sampson’s final six years at OU.

2000 - 3 seed
2001 - 4 seed
2002 - 2 seed
2003 - 1 seed
2004 - missed tournament
2005 - 3 seed
2006 - 6 seed

We also won 20 games in each of those season. Not one player from those teams went to the NBA if I remember right, but we were competitive every year. Why can’t we get back to that?

Nailed it

 

[WTSooner]

Is this an acceptable standard for OU basketball? I don’t expect us to get to the Final Four every year, but we’ve been garbage since the 2016 run. Is it too much to ask to be in the conference race every year and to be a threat to make a Sweet 16 run? Once Kelvin Sampson had built his program, we were consistently good. Take a look at Sampson’s final six years at OU.

2000 - 3 seed
2001 - 4 seed
2002 - 2 seed
2003 - 1 seed
2004 - missed tournament
2005 - 3 seed
2006 - 6 seed

We also won 20 games in each of those season. Not one player from those teams went to the NBA if I remember right, but we were competitive every year. Why can’t we get back to that?

Great post!

 

[mict085]

When will Kruger retire
When will we win a conference title
When will we be a top 15 program again

 

[WTSooner]

6:25pm tip on Saturday.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Look, I'm as disappointed as anyone over yet another late-season collapse that has put us in this predicament yet once again. I'm not disagreeing with most of what you're saying. However, you never seem to be here when things are going well. Would I be off base in guessing you have more posts on this one thread than you had the entire month of January? As such, you have to understand why so many posters don't appreciate when you post endless negativity about the program. It's no more refreshing than reading posts from those who believe we should be happy just squeezing into the Tournament every year.

I had a bad feeling things were going to spiral out of control once we could not hang on to beat KSU. It was an inexcusable loss...and five straight seasons of not playing our best ball heading into March has long worn thin on my nerves. About the only thing that will make this season a success is an upset over Gonzaga.

He didn’t post from Dec 16 through March 2.

As to another point in your post, I don’t think anyone is happy to just make the tourney as a 8-10 seed, especially when we were looking at a 2 or 3 late in the season. But that’s where the disconnect is. You can be frustrated with that while at the same time thinking that a coaching change isn’t warranted or that a change would be likely to improve things. So many people on here act like it is an open and shut case that he should be let go or urged to retire. I would be surprised if anyone can point to even a single example of a coach with a comparable 10-year track record at a school being let go, especially when that coach inherited a complete mess. I agree with those who believe we desperately need to improve our recruiting and development of big men. It also really hurt that we lost out on Collins in this year’s class, although the Kentucky factor was a hard thing to overcome. I will be shocked if we don’t go hard after a quality big in the transfer market. We have succeeded in bringing in guys that fill specific needs thru the portal recently, and this off-season the need is clearly up front.

 

[ICTSooner2]

Is this an acceptable standard for OU basketball? I don’t expect us to get to the Final Four every year, but we’ve been garbage since the 2016 run. Is it too much to ask to be in the conference race every year and to be a threat to make a Sweet 16 run? Once Kelvin Sampson had built his program, we were consistently good. Take a look at Sampson’s final six years at OU.

2000 - 3 seed
2001 - 4 seed
2002 - 2 seed
2003 - 1 seed
2004 - missed tournament
2005 - 3 seed
2006 - 6 seed

We also won 20 games in each of those season. Not one player from those teams went to the NBA if I remember right, but we were competitive every year. Why can’t we get back to that?

Yet Sampson’s style was boring and people wanted a different coach then too, even with all of that success. Someone with a style who would bring in fans. I know this wasn’t the opinion held by all, but certainly more than a few.

I don’t think anyone is happy with the program’s stagnation the last few years, but a new coach doesn’t guarantee future success. We all want 20+ wins and a high seed. OU doesn’t have the clout in recruiting and fan support where we could get any coach we wanted. For every Sampson there is a Capel (who ironically both left us high and dry after getting us in trouble).

Can LK get us where we need? I think we can make another run in the next couple of seasons with Harmon, Harkless and Hill (gotta put in the work this offseason), Noland, Cortes and any transfer big we might be in on this offseason. Not a bad core to work with and build around.

 

[Maverick008]

Is this an acceptable standard for OU basketball? I don’t expect us to get to the Final Four every year, but we’ve been garbage since the 2016 run. Is it too much to ask to be in the conference race every year and to be a threat to make a Sweet 16 run? Once Kelvin Sampson had built his program, we were consistently good. Take a look at Sampson’s final six years at OU.

2000 - 3 seed- 2nd round loss to #6 seed
2001 - 4 seed- 1st round loss to #13 seed
2002 - 2 seed- Final Four loss to #5 seed
2003 - 1 seed- Elite 8 loss to #3 seed
2004 - missed tournament
2005 - 3 seed- 2nd round loss to #6 seed
2006 - 6 seed- 1st round loss to #11 seed

We also won 20 games in each of those season. Not one player from those teams went to the NBA if I remember right, but we were competitive every year. Why can’t we get back to that?

What is considered ‘competitive’? Is getting a high seed competitive (i’ve added the seeds to those OU teams above) if you choke out of the tournament early? The 20+ wins and higher seeds are are great but when you lose to a 6 seed or lower, 4 out of the 6 GREAT/competitive years you mention is that competitive? I’m just trying to figure out what that means to some of you? In those six years, OU was NO WORSE than a 6 seed and yet only made it to the 2nd weekend of the tournament twice which is what some of you seem to think is the only way to have a ‘successful’ season? In every one of those seasons OU lost to a team at least two seeds lower than they were. Four of those seasons they lost to a 6 seed or lower in the 1st or 2nd round, were those competitive/successful seasons?

IF OU beats Missouri and loses to Gonzaga by 10+ does that make it a worse season by far than losing to the 6, 13, 6 and 11 seeds in the first or second round because those teams had 20+ wins and this team didn’t?

Some here make it sound like OU was once chasing championships (NCAA) every year before sampson left and it just isnt true. OU also went on probation at that time for recruiting violations under that same regime.

I get that no one likes the ‘sneaking into the tournament’ collapses at the end of the season but making it sound like OU was beating down the door of an NCAA title every year before Kruger/Capel just because they were ‘competitive’ just isnt true.

I find it hard to believe that the group here would be satisfied with a 4 or 6 seed just to bow out in the first round to a 13 or an 11 seed?

NO ONE has brought up the savior to be from 2 or 3 seasons ago by so many, that is Buzz Williams this season and why not? For the fact that not only are his teams not competitive but arent making the tournament at all.

We can all sit here and hand pick the next great OU coach that is going to get OU back to the final 4 but when it doesnt happen in his first 3-4 seasons that same group will be ready to name the next great OU coach again.

No, the seeds haven’t been the best over the entire span, but making the tournament 7 out of the last 8 seasons is the definition of ‘competitive’ to me and to wish for that guy to retire for the next best thing is playing with fire in my opinion.

I hope when Kruger does retire, that the next coach realizes he needs a top 15 recruiting class, a top 3 conference finish, a final conference tourney run and a top 4 seed in the NCAA tourney every season or this group is going to come running with pitchforks ready to get the next guy that will!

 

[thebigabd]

Is this an acceptable standard for OU basketball? I don’t expect us to get to the Final Four every year, but we’ve been garbage since the 2016 run. Is it too much to ask to be in the conference race every year and to be a threat to make a Sweet 16 run? Once Kelvin Sampson had built his program, we were consistently good. Take a look at Sampson’s final six years at OU.

2000 - 3 seed
2001 - 4 seed
2002 - 2 seed
2003 - 1 seed
2004 - missed tournament
2005 - 3 seed
2006 - 6 seed

We also won 20 games in each of those season. Not one player from those teams went to the NBA if I remember right, but we were competitive every year. Why can’t we get back to that?

Not sure what else there is to say.

 

[WichitaSooner]

What is considered ‘competitive’? Is getting a high seed competitive (i’ve added the seeds to those OU teams above) if you choke out of the tournament early? The 20+ wins and higher seeds are are great but when you lose to a 6 seed or lower, 4 out of the 6 GREAT/competitive years you mention is that competitive? I’m just trying to figure out what that means to some of you? In those six years, OU was NO WORSE than a 6 seed and yet only made it to the 2nd weekend of the tournament twice which is what some of you seem to think is the only way to have a ‘successful’ season? In every one of those seasons OU lost to a team at least two seeds lower than they were. Four of those seasons they lost to a 6 seed or lower in the 1st or 2nd round, were those competitive/successful seasons?

IF OU beats Missouri and loses to Gonzaga by 10+ does that make it a worse season by far than losing to the 6, 13, 6 and 11 seeds in the first or second round because those teams had 20+ wins and this team didn’t?

Some here make it sound like OU was once chasing championships (NCAA) every year before sampson left and it just isnt true. OU also went on probation at that time for recruiting violations under that same regime.

I get that no one likes the ‘sneaking into the tournament’ collapses at the end of the season but making it sound like OU was beating down the door of an NCAA title every year before Kruger/Capel just because they were ‘competitive’ just isnt true.

I find it hard to believe that the group here would be satisfied with a 4 or 6 seed just to bow out in the first round to a 13 or an 11 seed?

NO ONE has brought up the savior to be from 2 or 3 seasons ago by so many, that is Buzz Williams this season and why not? For the fact that not only are his teams not competitive but arent making the tournament at all.

We can all sit here and hand pick the next great OU coach that is going to get OU back to the final 4 but when it doesnt happen in his first 3-4 seasons that same group will be ready to name the next great OU coach again.

No, the seeds haven’t been the best over the entire span, but making the tournament 7 out of the last 8 seasons is the definition of ‘competitive’ to me and to wish for that guy to retire for the next best thing is playing with fire in my opinion.

I hope when Kruger does retire, that the next coach realizes he needs a top 15 recruiting class, a top 3 conference finish, a final conference tourney run and a top 4 seed in the NCAA tourney every season or this group is going to come running with pitchforks ready to get the next guy that will!

Excellent points. I love Kelvin. Absolutely love him, to the point that I watch a Houston program that I otherwise have no interest in. That said, many of his teams possessed most of the traits posters claim to hate about Lon’s recent teams. They didn’t have high end talent, were painful to watch offensively much of the time, and rarely entered the tourney with a realistic chance to make a feel run. Undeniably, he had a much better conference record. Also undeniably, he had a much easier conference to compete in. As bad as the bottom two teams were this season, the league had three or four of those teams most seasons, and sure as heck didn’t have four or five really good to great teams each year.

 

[BoulderSooner]

Is this an acceptable standard for OU basketball? I don’t expect us to get to the Final Four every year, but we’ve been garbage since the 2016 run. Is it too much to ask to be in the conference race every year and to be a threat to make a Sweet 16 run? Once Kelvin Sampson had built his program, we were consistently good. Take a look at Sampson’s final six years at OU.

2000 - 3 seed
2001 - 4 seed
2002 - 2 seed
2003 - 1 seed
2004 - missed tournament
2005 - 3 seed
2006 - 6 seed

We also won 20 games in each of those season. Not one player from those teams went to the NBA if I remember right, but we were competitive every year. Why can’t we get back to that?

with a much easier conf and conf schedule ..

 

[SoonerinNC]

We finished the season ranked 25th which figures to be a 7 seed based on the rankings.

Appears that the committee viewed the last 4 losses the same way many of our posters. Ignoring that we lost to a 3 seed by 4 points, another 3 seed by 7 and twice to OSU, a 4 seed by 4 points twice. And somehow ignoring all of the wins against top seeded teams. Somehow that doesn't equate to an 8 seed to me.

No question, the KSU loss hurt bad. A win would have given us a 10-8 conference at worst.

I think Mizzou will be tough based on their big guys. If we get by them we may do better than expected against Gonzaga who seldom plays up to their seeding in the tournament.

Let's face it. We are and have been all season soft in the middle and probably because of adjustments to protect the interior we are more vulnerable to outside shooters, particularly in the corner. Our offense is hot and cold because of too much one on one play and shot selection decisions. We have not had consistent outside shooting from anyone, due to cold spells or lack of getting free for clean shots. We are good enough to beat highly seeded teams but not consistently.

I have mixed feelings about Kruger. I think he is a super person. He recruits the second tier well but has rarely secured a top tier player. (TY an exception).

I don't care that much for his offense. Too much one on one play and pretty much an equal opportunity situation for anyone who wants to take a shot. Seems like we have fewer real clean open shots than many of our opponents. and teams like Kansas State and Tech seem to have a real handle on shutting our offense down. There were 3 losses that we could have won at least two if we had ever got our offense untracked.

I think he does a pretty good job of player development. Some exceptions but I suspect that we posters expect more from some of the projects he brings in than does Kruger. He likes a lot of practice players and probably some of his last minute recruits are probably picked up more for practice than play.

Bottom line I feel he is a good coach but not a great coach. Can we do better? Probably only with a highly talented young person who is just getting started as a head coach in a small school.

The high flyers are not likely to be interested. The big money for the NCAA is from the elites in football and men's basketball. They are going to the elite programs where they will be bullet proof. The NCAA seems to never find anything wrong with them but is quick to punish us and lesser lites.

I am as disapointed as anyone about the seeding. I never saw us as a #7 ranked team or #2 seed but the committee showed us no respect.

I find this thread typical of most of the game threads. We have those posters who are positive but realistic and very few sunshine pumpers.

Then we have those who typically trash the coaches and players, dumb coaches and stupid and lazy players and sometimes even when things are going good. Most though disappear when things are going good but a few come on after a win and declare it a good win. Same people, same song every game.