Sherri is VERY overpaid for her efforts lately.....

Syb, am I on your ignore list? I didn't think so because you seem to respond and I don't know how you could respond if you aren't reading what I write.

If I felt the need for a silly ignore list, you might be on it. Tango and Ms certainly would be. But I see no need for that.

I have my problems with Sherri and the way she runs the program. However, I giver her props for what she has done in making Oklahoma a solid program.

However, I just think in the last couple of years the program is slipping.

My most sincere hope is she makes some changes that virtually everyone thinks needs to be made and that the team returns to form next year.

If nothing much happens to change things in the next two seasons, then I'm pretty sure Sherri's out of here -- one way or the other.

Actually, I've long thought that at 20, no matter what the state of the program is, she is likely to retire or take some other position with the university. She strikes me as that sort of person -- one who has other things she wouldl like to do in her life.

PS -- If I had to bet on making the tourney, right now I would say no. If we win more than two out of the last few games, I would say our chances are slim and based upon who we are, not what we've done. I really think it will come down to the last game before the selection show.
 
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sybarite said:
No, Bay. I've not put you on ignore. It is interesting to see how every post can somehow turn into a hate Sherri post, but it is difficult to take seriously when that is your only statement. It would be nice if you sometime would get over your obsessive hatred and talk basketball again.

You even just posted about how we lost Gatewood who became somewhat of a person to be ignored by the time she finished her rounds.
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I'm still not sure how you come up with a "hate" conclusion. I despise what has happened with the program when there seemed to be so much hope. I've been tough on my opinion of SC because she is the Head Coach! She must be 100% accountable for what occurs in the program.

Gatewood. What "rounds"? She visited OU with the intention of transfering to Norman. The only other visit she had was to Maryland; to play WITH the girls that she beat up on every summer while in middle and high school instead of at OU with the girls that she won with during the summer. But Gatewood is only one top recruit that has been on the campus. There were many others including C Walker...that just really is disappointing. Who should I hold accountable? The video coordinator?
 
I don't have any of the Women's board regulars on my Ignore list. Although I may disagree with some of the posters that frequent this board, I don't regard them as worthless or nuts. There are even a couple of lurkers who only show up to launch a personal attack, it seems. But, I even have some value for their opinions. I don't think those who come over from the men's board only after a loss have anything to offer.
 
I know I'm late to the party of this thread, but here goes:

I think we can all agree that coaches are paid based on potential, as well as previous accomplishments. There is very little "merit pay" in major college athletics, as most pay comes from base salary, longevity bonuses, etc., as opposed to bonuses for target accomplishments.

While I would rather be having this topic on some other university's coach, I think it's fair to call a coach's high compensation into question when the results on the court do not match expectations.

That said, Sherri's past accomplishments --- Big 12 titles, Final Four banners, alumni and current players we can all be proud of for their athletic and academic success --- gives her at least a year's pass if we miss the NCAAs or even miss the WNIT. I say "at least" because no matter how sad or embarrassed you are by our not-ranked status or our tendency to lose lately, we aren't going to hire UConn's Geno, Tennessee's Pat Summmit or her successor, or even, heaven forbid, those two that coach Texas A&M and Baylor.

I agree that the plan going forward will likely be the Bob Stoops model of getting new assistants and a refocused effort on recruiting.

As fans, what's our plan going forward? I'm a bad fan, admittedly. I'm letting my husband change the channel whenever I attempt to watch a Sooner womens basketball game this season.
 
I can not see Coale getting rid of any assistant unless Castiglione requires her too. I do not see this happenuing unless he starts getting enough heat from donors. Do you really think that many big donors are interested in the womens basketball program? I am not saying she needs to get rid of anyone. She hired them. She needs to take the heat, not the assistants.
 
soonerstar said:
I can not see Coale getting rid of any assistant unless Castiglione requires her too. I do not see this happenuing unless he starts getting enough heat from donors. Do you really think that many big donors are interested in the womens basketball program?
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There's definitely some friends of the program, but I think they're also friends of Coale at this point, so I'm sure that they're going to be patient, even if they're also sad at the lack of winning lately.

I am not saying she needs to get rid of anyone. She hired them. She needs to take the heat, not the assistants.
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Whoa there. Why can't there be shared blame? For example, Jeff Capel, and his assistant Oronde Taliaferro: When the NCAA came knocking, is it solely Capel's fault, or also Taliaferro's?

I know it's a different situation versus wins and losses, but some responsibility has to fall to the assistants as well in this season full of disappointment
 
I think this is different from the Capel situation in that we are not in trouble with NCAA violations. I probably should have worded it differently. She was really close to all 3 assistants when she hired them. She knew what she was getting. One was a collewge roommate, one an assistant in high school, and the other had previously served on her staff. She had a chance to bring in someone with new ideas when, for reasons we do not know, Hansmeyer left but she did not. I would think Coale would be the type to micro manage everything that goes on. I do not know how much input the assistants have. I may be entirely off base but JMO.
 
soonerstar said:
I can not see Coale getting rid of any assistant unless Castiglione requires her too. I do not see this happenuing unless he starts getting enough heat from donors. Do you really think that many big donors are interested in the womens basketball program? I am not saying she needs to get rid of anyone. She hired them. She needs to take the heat, not the assistants.
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I disagree only because of the amount of money Sherri is paid. She makes $1 million per year, which makes her the 3rd highest paid coach in the department. Some of that is because the program has had success and it pays for itself, but if she continues to have years like this, the program will go from in the black to in the red.

On top of that, you have big football donors and donors for other sports who don't care about basketball much less womens basketball. Sad, but thats the way it is. At some point if some amenities (new pressbox, stadium upgrades, etc.) don't occur those folks will complain that certain coaches are overpaid and some of that money could be used for upgrades. I have no idea at what point this starts to happen but I know it's happened in the past with other programs.

If she doesn't get a raise after this season then that's a shot across the bow from the admin that she needs to figure it out. I doubt this happens but you never know.
 
soonerstar said:
I think this is different from the Capel situation in that we are not in trouble with NCAA violations. I probably should have worded it differently. She was really close to all 3 assistants when she hired them. She knew what she was getting. One was a collewge roommate, one an assistant in high school, and the other had previously served on her staff. She had a chance to bring in someone with new ideas when, for reasons we do not know, Hansmeyer left but she did not. I would think Coale would be the type to micro manage everything that goes on. I do not know how much input the assistants have. I may be entirely off base but JMO.
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From where I sit, the program started changing when Overton left and she hired Chad Thraillkill. He's in his 12th season and that was after the Stacey Dales final 4 team. Our guards have way more turnovers than they ever did with Overton and have plagued this program for years. IMO, it starts with him if any of them are released. Again, thats just from where I sit.
 
I agree with you about Bo Overton. He was also a good recruiter. I think he was really instrumental in getting the program to where it was when he left. When I have mentioned this previously, people bring up what happened with him after he left here. I am not sure he would be a good head coach, but he sures knows his basketball anand was the best assistant Coale has had at OU.
 
soonerstar said:
I agree with you about Bo Overton. He was also a good recruiter. I think he was really instrumental in getting the program to where it was when he left. When I have mentioned this previously, people bring up what happened with him after he left here. I am not sure he would be a good head coach, but he sures knows his basketball anand was the best assistant Coale has had at OU.
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He was successful at UMKC (I live in KC) before he left there to go to the WNBA. He can coach and he can recruit.

I know what he did would and should prevent him from being re-hired but they need someone like him who can coach-up the guards and recruit. Both guard play and recruiting has lacked since he left.
 
I don't think we are in anything near a program meltdown. After all we have some good recruits coming in next year and we had a team that realistically should have been a top contender for the conference championship. Why they didn't perform at their potential is hard to figure but most of us are over reacting to the terrible loss to silo tech.

I certainly don't have an inkling about the strengths and weaknesses of the assistant coaches and I doubt that many on the board do. It is a little harsh to wish that someone would get fired when we don't know how well they are doing their job.
 
SoonerinNC said:
I don't think we are in anything near a program meltdown. After all we have some good recruits coming in next year and we had a team that realistically should have been a top contender for the conference championship. Why they didn't perform at their potential is hard to figure but most of us are over reacting to the terrible loss to silo tech.

I certainly don't have an inkling about the strengths and weaknesses of the assistant coaches and I doubt that many on the board do. It is a little harsh to wish that someone would get fired when we don't know how well they are doing their job.
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I don't recall anyone "wishing" someone to get fired. Please tell me where that was said.

I don't think anyone wants a coach to be fired, we just want to win and win the right way. This season that isn't happening.

So, on a message board, we are discussing and providing our thoughts to the situation. I know you are a coach so you don't like any mention of coaches getting fired. I understand that completely, but nobody here has the power to do that anyway. Again, we are just having a discussion so don't blow it out of proportion.

Thanks.
 
Taken to the extreme, the logic would suggest that if we lost every game, this would be a very active board.

That's about the level of logic that is being put into a lot of the discussions in the aftermath of the OSU game. We don't know. I think if we got Geno in here right now, his first reaction would be "leave me out of this." When something like this happens, it is impossible to explain, at least rationally. Given some time, we may know by this time next year.

It happens. If you are to look at the program and try to figure out what needs to be done, do you leave it up to the amateurs on a message board? For seventeen years, we watched a program that nobody really wanted to exist become a power. We became a respected basketball power. Really? A program that had been the symbol of disgust for cancellation became a respected power?

If we had had any other coach, they would have left us for a gig at Duke, Texas, Stanford, North Carolina, or some other program that was more successful and had more support. Sherri was an Okie, loyal to the city and state. She had been born here, and she took Norman to titles for six years before coming to OU.

The state of women's basketball at the time was such that a successful college coach recommended a highschool coach to OU? Really? A successful college coach even knew who a highschool coach in Norman was? How did he even know her?

We had no recruiting base. Our big early success was due to an unknown, Whaley. We built from nothing and with a department that had been so supportive that it had cancelled the program. Even after years of success, every would-be highschool coach shows up on message boards to criticize every move that she has made.

It reveals rank stupidity and undeserved arrogance.

Sherri may not know what to do. I don't. I've coached, managed in business, and survived life for seventy years. When I see something like this, you can't be sure what is going on.

When I go to boards like The Summit or The Boneyard, the thing I notice is how much support the program and the coach have. It is interesting that most of the local message boards seem to have a lot of hostility for their own coach. Baylor gives a lot of support. While it isn't relevant that message boards, non-entities that they are, be supportive, I wonder if it isn't somewhat indicative of the fan base and the support for the program? I must admit that I would much prefer coaching for a fan base that has The Summit or The Boneyard. Stanford, Duke, and Maryland also have great message boards with good attitudes. Wonder if it helps?

Like it or not, Sherri is the best solution we have. I don't think you are going to get Geno to come to Norman.
 
I agree almost completely with Syb -- in principal. I don't know of anyone on this board, however, calling for Sherri to be fired. Most, including you Syb, hope that she has the will to change some things that seem to be causing the program to decline this year.

I have speculated that, after 18 years, she might be ready to retire or moving in that direction. I think if she resists change this off season or next, then she will leave at 20 years.

As I've said, I think it would be horrible for this program to continue to slide and for this woman who has done so much for players, the program, the university and women's basketball to end up getting fired after two, three or four bad years or forced out. That's an ending Sherri absolutely does not deserve.

I think we all worry (because we like the team and the sport) that such a program slide may be developing. Next season will tell us more.

But it is this offseason most of us are talking about, even you and Ms, Syb. It is THIS offseason that may end up dictating the future of this program like no other since the program was cancelled.

Attendance is down. We aren't getting the top players. Last season, the year before that and this season, the team has had some huge hurdles to try to overcome. It's been a bag of mixed results.

I too have run a business, directed employees, hired and fired. Additionally, I hold a C soccer license and have coached girls and women from 7 to 18 over a 12 year period in my life. I understand to a great deal what Sherri is facing when trying to bring consistency out of young women in their late teens and early to mid 20s. (Reminds me of having to deal with a goalie who at 16 was trying to play while hiding a pregnancy).

It is enough to make you pull your swiftly graying hair out.

I have my ideas on things about Sherri, the players and the program, as everyone who has an interest in the program does.

I was at this point with Stoops last year. And then he acted completely out of character, fired a few buddies and one of the most herald OU football alumni ever and brought in new blood and committed to some really difficult changes -- and low and behold, they worked.

I think we all agree Sherri must do the same thing to achieve past levels of greatness and she must do it quickly. I think we all worry too (including you) that she won't do anything. That possibility is really disturbing to almost everyone.

The players are greatly responsible for what has transpired this season. They are not the only ones, however. Sherri is a head coach. It is her responsibility to direct this program and players to great heights, if at all possible. Everyone shares in the blame.

I do disagree with you that you don't see other boards going off on coaches. Tennessee fans were getting pretty fed up with Pat before the announcement leaked out that she was seriously ill. Even then people posted that she should step down immediately.

Mack Brown would certainly disagree with your line of thinking, as would Travis Ford, Lane Kiffin, a half-dozen former NFL coaches last season, on and on and on.

I will add one statement about something that may be playing a part in this team and program. We have discussed this indirectly in our discussions about religion's impact on this program.

Earlier this year, Geno basically said something to the extent that he didn't care about the personal beliefs or behavior of his players as long as they didn't negatively impact the program. He recruited the best players, religious or not, tatted up or not, bad attitude or not. If they conformed to his rules and NCAA rules and didn't get in trouble, practiced and played well, that was great and that was his only concern.

I do think there's too much family in this program right now and not enough business. That's just my opinion based on remarks that have been made to me by a variety of people and what I see on the court and on social media.

Flame away folks. I do enjoy people complaining about some posters and then turning around and doing the very same thing in a later post or a different thread.
 
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soonerstar said:
I think this is different from the Capel situation in that we are not in trouble with NCAA violations. I probably should have worded it differently. She was really close to all 3 assistants when she hired them. She knew what she was getting. One was a collewge roommate, one an assistant in high school, and the other had previously served on her staff. She had a chance to bring in someone with new ideas when, for reasons we do not know, Hansmeyer left but she did not.. I do not know how much input the assistants have. I may be entirely off base but JMO.
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Information I have from an insider would confirm your suspicions to be correct. I am told she has absolute control over everything and assistants don't push back.
 
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This would fit with numerous stories over the last 3 years that assistants have been pushing her, begging and fighting with her over recruiting to no avail.

I've been told she gives them the go ahead to recruit some players, really good ones often, and then just comes in one day and says stop -- no more contact for no good reason.

I still think that is the mian reason Hansmeyer left so abruptly.
 
I think I mentioned the caveat that most local programs, e.g., those at Texas, etc., have a tendency to be hostile, with the possible exception of Baylor. Maybe it is something in the drinking water out here. I didn't read The Summit in Pat's last year.

Before there is a discussion of how much control Sherri has over the program, I would suggest that someone demonstrate the courage to ask her. It sounds like a good question for a legitimate reporter to me. But, I won't be influenced by what someone who is in the know says. I've been in the know in some OU programs in the past, and I knew nothing. One thing I did notice that those who were the first to reveal things didn't remain, nor did they have success elsewhere.
 
sybarite said:
I think I mentioned the caveat that most local programs, e.g., those at Texas, etc., have a tendency to be hostile, with the possible exception of Baylor. Maybe it is something in the drinking water out here. I didn't read The Summit in Pat's last year.

Before there is a discussion of how much control Sherri has over the program, I would suggest that someone demonstrate the courage to ask her. It sounds like a good question for a legitimate reporter to me. But, I won't be influenced by what someone who is in the know says. I've been in the know in some OU programs in the past, and I knew nothing. One thing I did notice that those who were the first to reveal things didn't remain, nor did they have success elsewhere.
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This sentence could have a lot of meanings, Syb. Do you mean,

-- People who talked about the inner workings of the program were pushed out and were not good at their own jobs so it was deserved?, or:

-- That people who talked were unfairly pushed out., or:

-- That people in the know and were good at their jobs were runoff?, or:

-- People who were cast aside for blabbing were good at their jobs, but didn't have success elsewhere.
 
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