Tiny investigation update

[thebigabd]

This is a bigger conspiracy theory than I imagined. :ez-laugh:

Is it really so hard to believe? Doesn't this sort of thing happen all over the place? Don't we accuse coaches of things like this all the time?

 

[scrybe]

This is a bigger conspiracy theory than I imagined. :ez-laugh:

the bigabd is probably still looking for that second gunman behind the grassy knoll. :ez-laugh:

 

[aaron7]

Your post assumes that the "he knew" crowd thinks/thought he didn't arrange it in the first place.

Jeff hired Oronde to bring in those players. He knew from the get-go, is what I am saying. He didn't need to stumble across the transfer documents, phone messages, or overhear Oronde in the bathroom on the cell phone, lol.

His staff got caught doing what Jeff hired him to do, in my opinion.

In the world of major collegiate athletics, I refuse to believe that a coach was hired to do a specific thing and the head coach has no idea how he was accomplishing it.

This is the scenario you are painting:

Jeff Capel: Ok, lets try to lock up Willie and Tiny.
Oronde: Will do, coach!
*hours go by*
Jeff Capel: How was the visit?
Oronde: They committed!
Jeff Capel: Really? What did you say to convince them?
Oronde: Oh, I just sold them on the education.
Jeff Capel: Sounds stupendous to me! High five!
Oronde: It's what I do.
Jeff Capel: Lets have a great season!
Oronde: Yes! BOOMER SOONER!

I realize that Oronde recruited Willie (the fact that they are related seems to hold no water for you), but I don't know why you are lumping Willie's recruitment with Tiny allegedly receiving money. Those two are totally separate situations.

Oronde was brought in to be an assistant coach. He was not brought in to foster an alleged extra benefit scam. To act like Jeff brought Oronde in so he could cheat his way to getting good players is absolutely proposterous. There is a huge difference between bringing in Oronde to help with Willie because they are related and bringing him in to give players money to come to OU.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Is it really so hard to believe? Doesn't this sort of thing happen all over the place? Don't we accuse coaches of things like this all the time?

You are calling our coach a lying unethical bum who orchestrated a giant cheating scheme. Unless you have proof, we need to get off of the wild unfounded accusations and get back to reality.

 

[thebigabd]

So you guys think this whole thing was done by Oronde, who acted alone, received no personal profit, and did whatever it took to bring/help Tiny and break major NCAA rules violations so that he would look like a better recruiter?

If this happened at OSU, Kentucky, Texas, Kansas, etc I find it hard to believe that you guys would be letting Ford, Calipari, Barnes, or Self off the hook.

 

[aaron7]

If the information for those other schools was the same as it is in this situation, one would have no choice but to let them off the hook.

 

[Tony]

I really do not know where all this newfound panic and renewed calls for Jeff Capel to be fired is coming from. It's not that I disagree with it or think it is wrong, necessarily, just that we do not really know all that much more information than we did a month ago. Did anyone really expect that when the school denied the media Talliaferro's phone records that they would say anything other than what we now know? I'm not seeing a whole lot so far that changes the ballgame, to be honest.

 

[thebigabd]

You are calling our coach a lying unethical bum who orchestrated a giant cheating scheme. Unless you have proof, we need to get off of the wild unfounded accusations and get back to reality.

You are right about not having proof linking Jeff Capel. Just like everywhere Calipari lands there is no proof linking him to wrongdoing.. You make assumptions based on the information you have. You are making the assumption that the head of the program is clueless about anything his staff and players do, I am making the assumption that he knew what was going on. Either way, we are making assumptions based on things we don't know.

Sure, every assistant coach jumped ship and all the players left. We know the violations happened, we know that OU cheated (the OU coach orchestrated the entire deal), etc. But we don't yet know that Capel had any involvement.

So until that happens, delete my posts implying that the head coach had to know, and make room in the sand for my head.

 

[boksooner]

So you guys think this whole thing was done by Oronde, who acted alone, received no personal profit, and did whatever it took to bring/help Tiny and break major NCAA rules violations so that he would look like a better recruiter?

If this happened at OSU, Kentucky, Texas, Kansas, etc I find it hard to believe that you guys would be letting Ford, Calipari, Barnes, or Self off the hook.

No one is letting him off the hook. Some of us are just waiting for the investigation to finish before we start measuring the rope. And great deduction, pointing out that fans are more likely to give their own coach the benefit of the doubt than an opposing coach. You really went out on a limb there.

 

[Soonercuda]

Is it really so hard to believe? Doesn't this sort of thing happen all over the place? Don't we accuse coaches of things like this all the time?

Your scenario could be true...however at this point there is no public evidence of Jeff having any knowledge. Jeff could be like lots of coaches who are essentially condoning cheating...just don't tell me about it so I can have plausible deniability (what many of us think about Calipari).

You say you can't imagine he did not know...I think Jeff could have been that naive and did not know. Here is a scenario I find plausible: At Duke he went to a place that does not have to cheat to get top flight talent....you recruit them hard and convince them to come based on basketball and academic tradition. So that is what Jeff does when he recruits and it is what he thinks all his assistants do. Compound that with as humans we have a great capacity to believe what we would like to be the truth. Jeff asks Oronde how he got them...Oronde says by working hard and Jeff naively believes it because it is what he wants to be the truth.

So at this point I think it is possible he did not know....we will just have to wait for the investigation to go final and see what additional facts come out.

 

[sooner333]

Here's the problem. It's easy to see how now it should have been suspcious that Oronde was talking to Hausinger. But, at the time, would it have risen to such suspicion/smoking gun. A man who was making $180k per year was calling a guy who works at Merrill Lynch, an investment company. This wasn't at a time when guys were committing to OU. OU doesn't get to see Tiny's mom's bank statement or the financial advisor's checks. Sure, OU could have asked Oronde what was up, but do you think he would have told the truth? Probably not (unless he really didn't do anything, which with what we know now, doesn't appear to be the case).

I mean, I haven't called a stock broker multiple times per month. I'm also just finishing up school. I don't advocate what he did at all, I think it's scum. I wish OU's compliance department knew, sometimes it's harder than it looks. We deserve punishment if it's true, but it's not like it's easy to monitor all of this stuff no matter how many people you have monitoring the case.

 

[SoonerNorm]

As I said, if you don't have proof of your accusations, I will close this thread. It is not fair to Jeff to allow those who want to trash his reputation without some evidence or knowledge of the situation to do so on this board.

 

[aaron7]

I really do not know where all this newfound panic and renewed calls for Jeff Capel to be fired is coming from. It's not that I disagree with it or think it is wrong, necessarily, just that we do not really know all that much more information than we did a month ago. Did anyone really expect that when the school denied the media Talliaferro's phone records that they would say anything other than what we now now? I'm not seeing a whole lot so far that changes the ballgame, to be honest.

This is right on the money. When Oronde "resigned" everyone speculated that this was the reason. Most surmised that Capel fired him. So now the speculation is proven to be true and people go crazy over information they already had. Nothing new to see here. Move along.

 

[Sam]

Your post assumes that the "he knew" crowd thinks/thought he didn't arrange it in the first place.

Jeff hired Oronde to bring in those players. He knew from the get-go, is what I am saying. He didn't need to stumble across the transfer documents, phone messages, or overhear Oronde in the bathroom on the cell phone, lol.

His staff got caught doing what Jeff hired him to do, in my opinion.

In the world of major collegiate athletics, I refuse to believe that a coach was hired to do a specific thing and the head coach has no idea how he was accomplishing it.

This is the scenario you are painting:

Jeff Capel: Ok, lets try to lock up Willie and Tiny.
Oronde: Will do, coach!
*hours go by*
Jeff Capel: How was the visit?
Oronde: They committed!
Jeff Capel: Really? What did you say to convince them?
Oronde: Oh, I just sold them on the education.
Jeff Capel: Sounds stupendous to me! High five!
Oronde: It's what I do.
Jeff Capel: Lets have a great season!
Oronde: Yes! BOOMER SOONER!

LOL, again not saying either way as I still do not believe we have enough information to proclaim that Capel is innocent or guilty in this mess but it is really coming off as you just wanting to throw Capel under the bus. So far we have no information linking Capel to this at all and like others have said the fact that Joe C hasn't thrown the axe down on Capel does say something in my opinion as well. Is it possible Capel knew about Oronde's methods and choose to turn a blind eye? Yes but to act like it is a done deal and that Capel encouraged the behavior is way too premature at this point.

By your logic a spouse that is being cheated on is just as responsible for the bad behavior as the spouse that is doing the actual cheating. I mean they're married so they must know everything that is going on in their life right?

 

[thebigabd]

As I said, if you don't have proof of your accusations, I will close this thread. It is not fair to Jeff to allow those who want to trash his reputation without some evidence or knowledge of the situation to do so on this board.

I thought we had "some" evidence? His staff, his players, and ultimately his gain from the whole thing.

But go ahead, close it or delete my posts and I wont make any more if we are only allowed to assume innocence or not discuss the possibility of wrong-doing on this board.

 

[aaron7]

I think there is a pretty large difference between discussing the possibility of wrong-doing and accusing the current head coach of hiring an assistant specifically to give money to players during the recruiting process.

 

[Sam]

I thought we had "some" evidence? His staff, his players, and ultimately his gain from the whole thing.

But go ahead, close it or delete my posts and I wont make any more if we are only allowed to assume innocence or not discuss the possibility of wrong-doing on this board.

You have a right to be upset and assume there could be some blame on Capel for this situation. But the manner you are going about in presenting your argument is what I believe Norm and some others have issues with.
It seems like you are trying to play the role of judge, jury and executioner. Plus the defense hasn't even been allowed to present their case yet.

 

[thebigabd]

I think there is a pretty large difference between discussing the possibility of wrong-doing and accusing the current head coach of hiring an assistant specifically to give money to players during the recruiting process.

Anyone who thinks he knew is accusing him of something.... If he knew, he supported it, otherwise it wouldnt have happened.

 

[boksooner]

I believe the appropriate objection is "assuming facts not in evidence" with a smattering of "hearsay"

 

[Tony]

As I said, if you don't have proof of your accusations, I will close this thread. It is not fair to Jeff to allow those who want to trash his reputation without some evidence or knowledge of the situation to do so on this board.

I certainly don't want to trash Jeff Capel's reputation. It is not exactly the longest leap in history, though, to speculate that he might have known what one of his top assistants was up to. He might not have! I do not know. He is certainly responsible for entrusting Orande Talliaferro with one of the top positions in the program, a move that has proven absolutely disastrous.