Umoja Gibson / Jamal Bienemy

[sheepdogs1]

The good news for you is you have 7 months (or more) to decide who you are going to complain about next season.

Does the same thing apply to you? Yes.

 

[TINY]

I'm glad message boards weren't around during Stacey King's collegiate career. Most of you would have said Stacey was a bust after his sophomore year and if he had transferred you would have been absolutely thrilled.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/stacey-king-1.html

I have no idea why Bienemy decided to transfer. I know he was an asset while he was here although he obviously wasn't perfect enough to please many of you. The good news for you is you have 7 months (or more) to decide who you are going to complain about next season.

He shot 25% from 3 often unguarded. He ain’t Stacey king and most importantly Stacey king didn’t transfer. Lon clearly wasn’t satisfied with what we had returning at guard and that was including JB. I would be happy to have him next year but I’m not the least bit concerned about replacing his production. Doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate his time as a Sooner and I do wish him the best.

 

[skyvue]

He shot 25% from 3 often unguarded.

He shot 40% from three his first season. We don't know yet which season better represented his potential, but the term "sophomore slump" exists for a reason.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

JB has no significant upside... Im not even sure I've seen him dunk a ball in two years. I mean, I hate to say it but he doesn't appear to be very skilled or very athletic. He's tall and long, smart player, but his best asset is his bball iq. That's a great thing to have, but his skill and athletic limitations don't present a lot of upside.

Yep. Never been a fan of JB. Good kid. Gives effort. But nothing more than a role player for where we want OU to be

It is like everyone was waiting and waiting for him to break out. He never did and never will

 

[skyvue]

It is like everyone was waiting and waiting for him to break out. He never did and never will

Wow, you can see into the future. Can you provide any stock tips?

Did you predict Stacy King's huge turnaround at this point in his career? You must have. And you surely placed a bet in Vegas after Buddy Hield's sophomore season that he would be the national player of the year two years later, right? Man, I wish I had that kind of foresight.

 

[WTSooner]

Buddy averaged 8 as a true freshman and 17 as a soph.

I get that we can't see into the future on JB, but I and others can make an educated guess. How about we see where he lands than bet on how he does offensively his last two years? I'm willing to bet a pretty decent amount that he won't break out.

 

[sheepdogs1]

Wow, you can see into the future. Can you provide any stock tips?

Did you predict Stacy King's huge turnaround at this point in his career? You must have. And you surely placed a bet in Vegas after Buddy Hield's sophomore season that he would be the national player of the year two years later, right? Man, I wish I had that kind of foresight.

What turnaround are you referring to? He started 14 games (played in 28 of the 34 games that season) as a sophomore and logged 15.8 minutes a game (10.9 in conference).

Jamal's sophomore season involved starting in 30 games and participating in 31 of them while averaging 31.9 minutes.

In an unrelated side note, our last 5 losses in that season were for a combined 7 points!

 

[cvangild]

He shot 25% from 3 often unguarded. He ain’t Stacey king and most importantly Stacey king didn’t transfer. Lon clearly wasn’t satisfied with what we had returning at guard and that was including JB. I would be happy to have him next year but I’m not the least bit concerned about replacing his production. Doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate his time as a Sooner and I do wish him the best.

The point of the post was, players get BETTER. Stacey King has the following scoring averages:
freshman - 6
Soph - 7
Junior - 22
Sr - 26

You know that all the haters would have called him a bust after 2 seasons!! Heck, I've seen some posters who already think that about Harmon. Harmon averaged 7 ppg this season. Hollis Price averaged 8 ppg his freshman season, Buddy Hield averaged about 8 ppg his frehman year as well. There are tons of other examples.

So many of us are simply looking at what this teams loses (Doo, JB, Merritt) and what we are adding (Phipps, Gibson and maybe Harkless??) and automatically assume we won't be as good. You can't forget to factor in how much our current roster improves.

 

[sheepdogs1]

The point of the post was, players get BETTER. Stacey King has the following scoring averages:
freshman - 6
Soph - 7
Junior - 22
Sr - 26

You know that all the haters would have called him a bust after 2 seasons!! Heck, I've seen some posters who already think that about Harmon. Harmon averaged 7 ppg this season. Hollis Price averaged 8 ppg his freshman season, Buddy Hield averaged about 8 ppg his frehman year as well. There are tons of other examples.

So many of us are simply looking at what this teams loses (Doo, JB, Merritt) and what we are adding (Phipps, Gibson and maybe Harkless??) and automatically assume we won't be as good. You can't forget to factor in how much our current roster improves.

Stacy played rather sparingly during his sophomore season.

Some thought Harmon would be on the team for a season before waving adios/bon voyage. Drama comes in all forms as it is not discriminatory in nature (optimist versus pessimist).

 

[MsProudSooner]

Does the same thing apply to you? Yes.

Of course, it applies to me.

 

[thebigabd]

sky doesn't like to knock on or criticize the players. That's fine. Even if what was being said was 100% true I have never seen him join in on it (that I can recall). I think most of us certainly don't like doing it, but just stating things we see from a basketball perspective.

 

[WTSooner]

King didn't play a lot as a frosh/soph. Sometimes all players need is minutes and a "role" to put up numbers. If anybody thinks King improved as much as a player as his scoring average increased from year 2 to year 3, well.....I disagree.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Wow, you can see into the future. Can you provide any stock tips?

Did you predict Stacy King's huge turnaround at this point in his career? You must have. And you surely placed a bet in Vegas after Buddy Hield's sophomore season that he would be the national player of the year two years later, right? Man, I wish I had that kind of foresight.

Just my opinion.
It is intellectually dishonest to put Bienemy and Kings first two years performance in the same atmosphere.

Just look at their sophemore seasons:
JB:
31 minutes per game
5 ppg
35% FG
25% 3pt
4 rpg
3 apg
1 spg

Per 40
6.5 ppg
5 rpg
3.5 apg
1.4 spg

King:
16 minutes per game
7 ppg
44% FG
N/A% 3pt
4 rpg
0.5 apg
0.4 spg

Per 40
17.5 ppg
10 rpg
1.25 apg
1.0 spg

 

[skyvue]

King didn't play a lot as a frosh/soph. Sometimes all players need is minutes and a "role" to put up numbers. If anybody thinks King improved as much as a player as his scoring average increased from year 2 to year 3, well.....I disagree.

Here are King's points-per-minutes-played numbers:
1986: .37
1987: .44
1988: .71
1989: .75

If he'd played as well as a sophomore as he did as a junior with the same number of minutes, he'd have scored 313 points rather than 196.

Then too, if he'd been remotely as good as a freshman or sophomore as he was as a junior, he likely would have gotten more minutes during those seasons.

 

[thebigabd]

The metrics aren't good for JB, but you also have to look and see what he is actually doing on the court. I haven't seen him dunk in two years, he can't score, he can't drive, he can't shoot, he barely ever gets to the foul line.

He is the poster child of what is called a "bus driver"... he brings the ball up the court, swings it around, and 1-2 times per game on average he makes a shot. He barely ever turns the ball over, has a high basketball IQ, and doesn't make mistakes. He also plays good defense. All of those are good things, but he is a liability on offense in certain ways.

He is being left wide open, on purpose. That means opposing defenses have decided their odds of stopping OU from scoring are actually better when they don't guard him and dedicate that player to doubling someone else.

I will conclude that we can all argue about this until we are blue in the face, but only seeing what he does after his final two years of college will show the truth.

 

[sheepdogs1]

Here are King's points-per-minutes-played numbers:
1986: .37
1987: .44
1988: .71
1989: .75

If he'd played as well as a sophomore as he did as a junior with the same number of minutes, he'd have scored 313 points rather than 196.

Then too, if he'd been remotely as good as a freshman or sophomore as he was as a junior, he likely would have gotten more minutes during those seasons.

Does it matter who played in front of him?

 

[sheepdogs1]

He is being left wide open, on purpose. That means opposing defenses have decided their odds of stopping OU from scoring are actually better when they don't guard him and dedicate that player to doubling someone else.

I will conclude that we can all argue about this until we are blue in the face, but only seeing what he does after his final two years of college will show the truth.

It's nice when a player makes it easier for his teammates as opposed to more difficult and that is what transpired on offense with Jamal on the court from an offensive perspective.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Here are King's points-per-minutes-played numbers:
1986: .37
1987: .44
1988: .71
1989: .75

If he'd played as well as a sophomore as he did as a junior with the same number of minutes, he'd have scored 313 points rather than 196.

Then too, if he'd been remotely as good as a freshman or sophomore as he was as a junior, he likely would have gotten more minutes during those seasons.

So lets math.
.44 to .71 is an increase of 61%

For JB, this would be going from .16 to .26

If JB made that kind of jump, he would be an average big 12 player.

SK went from really good to great. JB would go from bad to average.

As for your note on getting more minutes, (I was too young to remember this) his sophomore team was a lot more senior laden with a senior in front of him.

 

[skyvue]

If JB made that kind of jump, he would be an average big 12 player.

SK went from really good to great. JB would go from bad to average.

If the only metric one can use to judge a PG -- or any player -- is scoring, that would be accurate. But it's not. One need only look at Quannas White's numbers to see that. As a junior, he averaged .26 points per minutes played; as a senior, he improved to .31. Was JB as good overall as White? Not yet, but he might well have been. We'll never know.

As for your note on getting more minutes, (I was too young to remember this) his sophomore team was a lot more senior laden with a senior in front of him.

That senior was David Johnson, who averaged 9 points, 6 rebounds, less than one block and 21 minutes per game that season. I wouldn't call King a "really good" player as a sophomore; if he had been, he'd have taken more of Johnson's minutes.

 

[skyvue]

sky doesn't like to knock on or criticize the players. That's fine. Even if what was being said was 100% true I have never seen him join in on it (that I can recall). I think most of us certainly don't like doing it, but just stating things we see from a basketball perspective.

I'm prepared to offer critiques, as I did recently when I expressed disappointment in Harmon's freshman campaign. But in criticizing him, I was careful to add that I still have high hopes for him, and I do.

I try always to remember that these are very young men who, as long as they comport themselves properly while they are Sooners, deserve our respect and appreciation, even as they sometimes disappoint us. I take no pleasure in trashing (and that's a fair description for many posts on this board) 18-to-22-year-olds. Professional athletes making big bucks, sure, but not collegiate. That's not to say I don't get frustrated during games -- of course I do.