Umoja Gibson / Jamal Bienemy

[AdaSooner]

sky doesn't like to knock on or criticize the players. That's fine. Even if what was being said was 100% true I have never seen him join in on it (that I can recall). I think most of us certainly don't like doing it, but just stating things we see from a basketball perspective.

I was a Jamal Bieniemy fan before he arrived on campus and continued to be through two seasons and into the shortened post season. Some of us aren’t knocking or criticizing him, we’re just being honest about his shortcomings.

I think it’s also important to note that, as far as we know, JB made the decision to leave on his own. I, for one, would have gladly welcomed him back if he had decided to stay. I said before that my preference would have been to see Gibson and JB on the same team and I meant every word. But no one who was pleased to learn Mo Gibson picked the Sooners yesterday, should be criticized or ostracized for feeling that way.

Best of luck to JB no matter where he lands!

 

[skyvue]

I was a Jamal Bieniemy fan before he arrived on campus and continued to be through two seasons and into the shortened post season. Some of us aren’t knocking or criticizing him, we’re just being honest about his shortcomings.

I think it’s also important to note that, as far as we know, JB made the decision to leave on his own. I, for one, would have gladly welcomed him back if he had decided to stay. I said before that my preference would have been to see Gibson and JB on the same team and I meant every word. But no one who was pleased to learn Mo Gibson picked the Sooners yesterday, should be criticized or ostracized for feeling that way.

Best of luck to JB no matter where he lands!

As you say, it's entirely possible to be very happy Gibson is coming to Norman AND to wish JB had stuck around.

And no one should be criticized or ostracized for pointing out JB's strengths as a player. That goes both ways.

 

[scrybe]

Were we already in the running for UG or did we get him primarily/entirely because JB left?

I asked a somewhat similar question in another thread, and I also received zero responses (my question: did JB decide to transfer because he learned that UG was coming to Norman?).

I can only assume no one knows the answer to either question.

 

[WTSooner]

I asked a somewhat similar question in another thread, and I also received zero responses (my question: did JB decide to transfer because he learned that UG was coming to Norman?).

I can only assume no one knows the answer to either question.

What I've read between the lines is that we were recruiting at least one guard transfer (not one player, but for one spot) long before JB decided to leave. To me that likely implies that JB was aware and didn't like it. Whether LK told JB he'd be coming off the bench, or competing for his starting spot, who knows.

 

[scrybe]

Not sure if I agree, but nevertheless you answered my question, and it was an honest answer to boot.

Thanks

 

[CMSOONER]

What I've read between the lines is that we were recruiting at least one guard transfer (not one player, but for one spot) long before JB decided to leave. To me that likely implies that JB was aware and didn't like it. Whether LK told JB he'd be coming off the bench, or competing for his starting spot, who knows.

I can't imagine LK would have told JB he was coming off the bench before even signing another guard or even preseason starting....It's possible maybe they had a meeting a LK discussed his vision of potentially moving him to the bench, but I still have a hard time seeing that conversation have taken place so early.
JB might have seen the writing on the wall though.

 

[Sooner Season]

i'm sorry that JB left because I had high hopes for him as a signee and I was hoping he could rebound from this year and improve but boy, this year was painful to watch for the most part. I glad to add Gibson but I'm going to wait to see what the step up in competition does to him. After all, Austin Reaves shot 40% from 3 before last year as well.

As for using Stacey King as an example of people improving, that is not useful at all. I have told my sons that Stacey King's improvement from his sophomore to junior year was something I had never seen before and I've never seen since. He did not go from good to great, he went from ok to player of the year. His first 2 seasons he was an athletic sometime shot blocker that had an inconsistent shot and couldn't finish at the rim. Think Kadeem Lattin. Kind of like his NBA career, but not quite that bad. To use that sort of once in a lifetime improvement to justify not giving up on a player improving is kind of like Lloyd Christmas......"So you're telling me there's a chance!!!"

 

[TINY]

I asked a somewhat similar question in another thread, and I also received zero responses (my question: did JB decide to transfer because he learned that UG was coming to Norman?).

I can only assume no one knows the answer to either question.

It has been reported that UG has held an offer for weeks. It was also said that JB’s decision to transfer caught the coaches and team off guard. Put 2 and 2 together and you see that UG was a priority even with JB staying.

 

[sheepdogs1]

It has been reported that UG has held an offer for weeks. It was also said that JB’s decision to transfer caught the coaches and team off guard. Put 2 and 2 together and you see that UG was a priority even with JB staying.

And the staff should be praised for seeing a possible deficiency in the team and trying to shore things up even if it upset certain members of the team. Not an easy thing to swallow, but it was in their best interests to find answers and solutions.

 

[AdaSooner]

What I've read between the lines is that we were recruiting at least one guard transfer (not one player, but for one spot) long before JB decided to leave. To me that likely implies that JB was aware and didn't like it. Whether LK told JB he'd be coming off the bench, or competing for his starting spot, who knows.

Agreed, except for one thing. It’s highly unlikely LK told JB his job would be safe as a starter, or that he would be coming off of the bench. Lon refused to give Je’lon Hornbeak any guarantees when he threatened to transfer if he didn’t get it..

That’s one of the things I like about Lon Kruger!

 

[daqman]

i'm sorry that JB left because I had high hopes for him as a signee and I was hoping he could rebound from this year and improve but boy, this year was painful to watch for the most part. I glad to add Gibson but I'm going to wait to see what the step up in competition does to him. After all, Austin Reaves shot 40% from 3 before last year as well.

As for using Stacey King as an example of people improving, that is not useful at all. I have told my sons that Stacey King's improvement from his sophomore to junior year was something I had never seen before and I've never seen since. He did not go from good to great, he went from ok to player of the year. His first 2 seasons he was an athletic sometime shot blocker that had an inconsistent shot and couldn't finish at the rim. Think Kadeem Lattin. Kind of like his NBA career, but not quite that bad. To use that sort of once in a lifetime improvement to justify not giving up on a player improving is kind of like Lloyd Christmas......"So you're telling me there's a chance!!!"

Good post. Continually bringing up a once in a 50 year occurrence every time a player disappoints after a couple years isn't useful at all.

 

[thebigabd]

I'm prepared to offer critiques, as I did recently when I expressed disappointment in Harmon's freshman campaign. But in criticizing him, I was careful to add that I still have high hopes for him, and I do.

I try always to remember that these are very young men who, as long as they comport themselves properly while they are Sooners, deserve our respect and appreciation, even as they sometimes disappoint us. I take no pleasure in trashing (and that's a fair description for many posts on this board) 18-to-22-year-olds. Professional athletes making big bucks, sure, but not collegiate. That's not to say I don't get frustrated during games -- of course I do.

Yea, to be clear, I didn't mean that as a bad thing... I always took your comments as being respectful of the players and their families, who we know read this forum.

You offer very tactful criticism, would probably be a better way to put it.

 

[WTSooner]

I'm prepared to offer critiques, as I did recently when I expressed disappointment in Harmon's freshman campaign. But in criticizing him, I was careful to add that I still have high hopes for him, and I do.

I try always to remember that these are very young men who, as long as they comport themselves properly while they are Sooners, deserve our respect and appreciation, even as they sometimes disappoint us. I take no pleasure in trashing (and that's a fair description for many posts on this board) 18-to-22-year-olds. Professional athletes making big bucks, sure, but not collegiate. That's not to say I don't get frustrated during games -- of course I do.

If you were critical of Harmon's freshman year, that is b/c you didn't know what type of player he was.

I stated very early on that scoring was not his strong suit, and that he was more of a pass first, do it all pg, who was better at driving and creating than shooting or scoring.

He probably scored it better and showed more potential than I was expecting, but anybody expecting him to come in and be some offensive wizard, that just isn't his game. And might never be. He'll need to learn to be efficient, but he isn't going to need volume on offense. But he'll also be a guy that other teams can't just leave alone either.

 

[CoachTalk]

If you were critical of Harmon's freshman year, that is b/c you didn't know what type of player he was.

I stated very early on that scoring was not his strong suit, and that he was more of a pass first, do it all pg, who was better at driving and creating than shooting or scoring.

He probably scored it better and showed more potential than I was expecting, but anybody expecting him to come in and be some offensive wizard, that just isn't his game. And might never be. He'll need to learn to be efficient, but he isn't going to need volume on offense. But he'll also be a guy that other teams can't just leave alone either.

I tend to agree with this about him being an elite scorer. But he can be better

I think you’ll see more moving forward. Needs the reigns off a little

 

[Maverick008]

who was better at driving and creating than shooting or scoring.

In all honesty I didn’t think he was as good as I was thinking he would be in this department either. I feel like he was caught in the lane too many times not knowing what to do with the ball because he was shut off prior to getting to the rim or he got close to the rim and just threw something up because that was what he intended to do from the moment he drove.

He needs to become a mixture of what he tried to do (driving and scoring) and what JB did (drive to dish mentality) and then we have the guy I thought we were getting from the jump. Not being overly critical, just stating what I watched all last season.

Once he figures out how to get to the rim and score a little bit more, teams will need to drop and help off more allowing him to kick it out more.

I do also think/hope he’ll continue to expand his game shooting wise which will help all the above.

After last year, unless he improves a ton over this off season, he definitely looks like a 3-4 year player at best which could actually be a really good thing for OU in the long run.

 

[WTSooner]

I tend to agree with this about him being an elite scorer. But he can be better

I think you’ll see more moving forward. Needs the reigns off a little

Of course he'll get better.

I checked some old threads a short while ago, and some were predicting him to score 15+ per game this year. He might never do that. I see him settling into the 10-13 range as an upperclassman. And that is fine. But all that talk of him being a potential one and done, or two year player, I never understood that. He doesn't have that kind of game.

 

[skyvue]

If you were critical of Harmon's freshman year, that is b/c you didn't know what type of player he was.

I stated very early on that scoring was not his strong suit, and that he was more of a pass first, do it all pg, who was better at driving and creating than shooting or scoring.

He probably scored it better and showed more potential than I was expecting, but anybody expecting him to come in and be some offensive wizard, that just isn't his game. And might never be. He'll need to learn to be efficient, but he isn't going to need volume on offense. But he'll also be a guy that other teams can't just leave alone either.

I read this board regularly so I knew what kind of player he was. But even in the areas in which Harmon was supposed to excel, I felt he underperformed. Not that I'm writing him off -- I'm not. And if he's only marginally better next year, I won't write him off then, either.

Ironic, though, that you rush to defend Harmon after writing off Bieniemy, given a very strong case can be made that Harmon was not as good as JB whether you compare their respective performances last season or their freshman campaigns. Is it possible you didn't know what type of player Jamal was?

Last season, Bieniemy outrebounded Harmon, 120-54, he had 28 more assists, he had better assist-to-turnover ratio -- better than 2-1 compared to Harmon's, which was just under 1.5-1 . He had 5 blocks to Harmon's 2. They both had 34 steals. They shot about the same overall (though Harmon shot the three better and was 2% better overall). That said, Harmon averaged just two more points per game in what I predict will be the worst offensive season of JB's career.

Compare their freshman seasons instead, and Bieniemy comes off just as well. JB outshot Harmon his freshman season -- both overall and from deep -- though he shot less often than did De'Vion. He had 28 more rebounds than Harmon, twice as many assists (119-59), an assist-to-turnover ratio of better than 2.5-1 compared to Harmon's aforementioned 1.5-1, 47 steals to Harmon's 34, 6 blocks to Harmon's 2.

So why anyone would rush to give Harmon a break they're not willing to give JB, I cannot grasp. I very much hope that Harmon has a spectacular sophomore season, but if he doesn't, will the same posters be writing him off too? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[TINY]

I read this board regularly so I knew what kind of player he was. But even in the areas in which Harmon was supposed to excel, I felt he underperformed. Not that I'm writing him off -- I'm not. And if he's only marginally better next year, I won't write him off then, either.

Ironic, though, that you rush to defend Harmon after writing off Bieniemy, given a very strong case can be made that Harmon was not as good as JB whether you compare their respective performances last season or their freshman campaigns. Is it possible you didn't know what type of player Jamal was?

Last season, Bieniemy outrebounded Harmon, 120-54, he had 28 more assists, he had better assist-to-turnover ratio -- better than 2-1 compared to Harmon's, which was just under 1.5-1 . He had 5 blocks to Harmon's 2. They both had 34 steals. They shot about the same overall (though Harmon shot the three better and was 2% better overall). That said, Harmon averaged just two more points per game in what I predict will be the worst offensive season of JB's career.

Compare their freshman seasons instead, and Bieniemy comes off just as well. JB outshot Harmon his freshman season -- both overall and from deep -- though he shot less often than did De'Vion. He had 28 more rebounds than Harmon, twice as many assists (119-59), an assist-to-turnover ratio of better than 2.5-1 compared to Harmon's aforementioned 1.5-1, 47 steals to Harmon's 34, 6 blocks to Harmon's 2.

So why anyone would rush to give Harmon a break they're not willing to give JB, I cannot grasp. I very much hope that Harmon has a spectacular sophomore season, but if he doesn't, will the same posters be writing him off too? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Harmon’s +/- was the best on the team at 100 while JB’s was third worst at 27. This is in large part due to the fact that the team had to play 4 on 5 on offense when JB was on the floor. Lot harder to score when doo or manek are getting double teamed by the guy supposed to be manning JB.

 

[AdaSooner]

Re: Umoja Gibson / Jamal Bieniemy

Of course he'll get better.

I checked some old threads a short while ago, and some were predicting him to score 15+ per game this year. He might never do that. I see him settling into the 10-13 range as an upperclassman. And that is fine. But all that talk of him being a potential one and done, or two year player, I never understood that. He doesn't have that kind of game.

Come on, WT. A post or two by someone who didn’t have a clue does not rise to the “all of that talk” level. There were a lot more posts to refute that claim.

I followed DeVion’s career at Denton Guyer as close or closer than anyone, and I never gave any thought to the idea he might be one and done. He’s got a lot of work to do before he’s the topic of a career in the NBA. Nothing wrong with that. As you know, there aren’t many point guards in the league who made it that far without a lot of experience and hard work, as well as a few disappointments along the way.

 

[skyvue]

Re: Umoja Gibson / Jamal Bieniemy

I mentioned it once or twice, but only because he was saying that was his goal. Not that I hold that against him, but it would seem he might have been jumping the gun much more than anyone on this board.