Voepel on Texas

[womenssports]

How did we get into OU and problems?

At the time of their recruitment, their lifestyle was in conflict with the Baylor Code of Conduct. Why would Baylor recruit someone who was in conflict with their principles?

I'm not sure who might conflict with OU.

I think you brought OU into the conversation with your first post. Oh, I think ANY of the players who would have been OUT when they were recruited would not have been offered a scholarship by OU and that they would have conflicted with OU coaching staff if they were publicly out while playing here.

 

[sybarite]

I think you brought OU into the conversation with your first post. Oh, I think ANY of the players who would have been OUT when they were recruited would have conflicted with OU or who were publicly out while playing here.

I think you are misinformed or uninformed.

 

[womenssports]

I have no idea what you are talking about with most of your post. But, I think that being of different sexual orientations or being black would be of no consequence to members of the team. The highschool kids that I know simply don't care about sexual orientation---except for a few. They tend to be the extreme.

.

Oh, I definitely think the players don't have a problem playing with black players but that is not the same as not being racist.

Well, most of the players on the OUWBB team may not care about sexual
orientation either BUT that doesn't mean that OUT lesbians would be recruited by OU. IF it were okay, then why do they publicly come out of the closet AFTER leaving the university and even then, when they come back to functions they do not display their sexual orientation because I don't think the coaching staff nor the fans nor the stilettos and other fan clubs would like it and the team would lose support.

 

[sybarite]

Do you pay attention to their private lives that much?

 

[womenssports]

Griner should have kept her mouth shut. Everyone should keep their private lives private and there never have been an issue. She didn't want to do that. Instead, she thought everyone should know about her sexual orientation. Stupid.

Like you keep and kept your mouth shut about the girls and women you dated and I am guessing you are and have been married to a woman and you kept that quiet. Like you watched what pronouns you used when talking about dating so you didn't say "she" or "her" but somehow kept it generic.......you know the person I am seeing. Or you didn't hold hands with someone in public or hold hands or put your arms around them........NO PDA. No one had any idea you were straight because you kept it private Oh, and what about marriage? You didn't get married because you wanted to keep it private? Or you got married out of state and you introduced your wife as
a cousin or roommate? THAT IS WHAT IS STUPID. It is ok to be heterosexual and out and for you it is okay to be homosexual, just don't be out. Don't live a normal life with love and affection and sharing it, but keep it in the closet. I just can't believe when people say they aren't homophobic BUT keep it to yourself, it is no one's business JUST LIKE it works with straight people. LIKE getting spousal benefits....heteros fine but not homos because then you wouldn't be being private. This is such a false argument.

AND, yes, I am BI or sexually fluid, it depends upon the person not the gender; but even if I weren't I would be making these arguments because WHY do you or anyone care who someone loves. I mean really....like there aren't enough lonely people in the world, enough unhappy people with mental health issues, let's add to it by saying YOU CAN'T BE YOU......well, for some of you it's okay, JUST KEEP IT PRIVATE, STUPID. YES, GRINER, I mean you.

Finally, it is the people who come out who actually save lives by letting young people know it is okay and there are other people like you.

 

[womenssports]

Do you pay attention to their private lives that much?

No, I just know what I see when I check twitter to see who is injured or might be injured and those type things and I see comments. JUST like I do with the women's softball team. However, being part of the glbt community I am probably a bit more aware than you. Also, there have been teams that have been sued for discrimination and Sherri never comments. Also, the womens's national basketball association has done one video (maybe two) about inclusion and how being a lesbian has adversely affected some and how we need to be inclusive. I tweeted it to the OUWBB twitter and it did not get retweeted. OU certainly did not participate.

I have an autographed basketball from the OU team that my sister got me
at an auction to raise money for a local elementary school. I don't want any autographs, period. I use the ball to practice dribbling but I don't let my sister know. Then this Christmas she bought an OU frame that JoAnna McFarland had autographed. I don't know where JoAnna is or why she was available to sign it, but she did volunteer at this elementary school when she was in college. ONE, I do not want an OU frame and two her autograph makes no difference to me. So, no I am not obsessed with these players. That is not to say, JUST TO BE CLEAR, that I did not enjoying watching JoAnna play and that I have anything against her.

I am concerned with what type of influence these young women receive from playing for OUWBB and how they learn and are influenced by being at OU.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

.

Oh, I definitely think the players don't have a problem playing with black players but that is not the same as not being racist.

Well, most of the players on the OUWBB team may not care about sexual
orientation either BUT that doesn't mean that OUT lesbians would be recruited by OU. IF it were okay, then why do they publicly come out of the closet AFTER leaving the university and even then, when they come back to functions they do not display their sexual orientation because I don't think the coaching staff nor the fans nor the stilettos and other fan clubs would like it and the team would lose support.

These are all just wild speculations we are making. No one knows so let's not argue about what we cannot know for sure.

I think we can all agree about this. If you want to be an accepted part of a group who have certain well known values about social issues, it is foolish to get in the group and then make a big deal about the fact you live a lifestyle different from the group. Keep it to yourself or get in a group that feels like you do - or at least does not care.

Keep personal things to yourself. If you know it will bother them don't disrespect them by taunting them with your choices and actions.

 

[Oliver Hardy]

My point was that the story states
Ross did not feel comfortable coming
out while at OU.

Isn't that a shame? Wonder why she felt that way?


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[sybarite]

My point was that the story states
Ross did not feel comfortable coming
out while at OU.

Isn't that a shame? Wonder why she felt that way?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The story that I read made no specific claims about OU at all. It detailed her lifelong experiences, most of which concerned people that she was close to her entire life. OU was barely mentioned in passing.

She seemed to be out to some extent for several years, some prior to OU.

 

[womenssports]

These are all just wild speculations we are making. No one knows so let's not argue about what we cannot know for sure.

I think we can all agree about this. If you want to be an accepted part of a group who have certain well known values about social issues, it is foolish to get in the group and then make s big deal about the fact you live a lifestyle different from the group. Keep it to yourself or get in a group that feels like you do - or at least does not care.

Keep personal things to yourself. If you know it will bother them don't disrespect them by taunting them with your choices and actions.

So if you are an lgbtq person and you want to play basketball at a certain public university, you shouldn't do that if they don't like lesbians. Do the heterosexuals keep it to themselves? No. So by being yourself, you are taunting people with your choices and actions, because being homosexual is a choice?

As far as speculation, I don't agree. When we recruit an out lesbian on our OUWBB team, then I will agree it has changed. When a player is out while playing at OU, then I will agree it has changed. Just because you are not aware of lesbians who have been on the team, does not mean they haven't been. I am aware of one who became very public after graduation. Was at the Pride festival in OKC.

And you know what, none of this has really affected my life. So this is not about me, it is about fairness and equality at our public universities where all of our tax monies go.

Did I lose a couple of friends when I fell in love with a woman and they found out? Yes, but I did not care. When I was an attorney with Legal Aid (supposedly a liberal place to work), I was treated a little differently by some, but again I did not care. NOW, my experience would have been much different had I been homosexual in high school, but I was obsessed with boys.

My point in all of this being that people should be allowed to be who they are and not have to hide, change pronouns, watch what they say, not be able to hold hands in public or go to proms, etc etc and when most women's sports have lesbians who usually are some of their top players, well then how is OU doing any different than Baylor except that Baylor has a manual which does not allow this type of behavior, it is a private university.

 

[sybarite]

Are you sure that we have not recruited a lesbian to the team?

 

[tycat947]

Like you keep and kept your mouth shut about the girls and women you dated and I am guessing you are and have been married to a woman and you kept that quiet. Like you watched what pronouns you used when talking about dating so you didn't say "she" or "her" but somehow kept it generic.......you know the person I am seeing. Or you didn't hold hands with someone in public or hold hands or put your arms around them........NO PDA. No one had any idea you were straight because you kept it private Oh, and what about marriage? You didn't get married because you wanted to keep it private? Or you got married out of state and you introduced your wife as
a cousin or roommate? THAT IS WHAT IS STUPID. It is ok to be heterosexual and out and for you it is okay to be homosexual, just don't be out. Don't live a normal life with love and affection and sharing it, but keep it in the closet. I just can't believe when people say they aren't homophobic BUT keep it to yourself, it is no one's business JUST LIKE it works with straight people. LIKE getting spousal benefits....heteros fine but not homos because then you wouldn't be being private. This is such a false argument.

AND, yes, I am BI or sexually fluid, it depends upon the person not the gender; but even if I weren't I would be making these arguments because WHY do you or anyone care who someone loves. I mean really....like there aren't enough lonely people in the world, enough unhappy people with mental health issues, let's add to it by saying YOU CAN'T BE YOU......well, for some of you it's okay, JUST KEEP IT PRIVATE, STUPID. YES, GRINER, I mean you.

Finally, it is the people who come out who actually save lives by letting young people know it is okay and there are other people like you.

+1!

 

[womenssports]

Are you sure that we have not recruited a lesbian to the team?

Oh, I definitely believe we have recruited lesbians BUT I don't believe they WERE OUT.

 

[womenssports]

The story that I read made no specific claims about OU at all. It detailed her lifelong experiences, most of which concerned people that she was close to her entire life. OU was barely mentioned in passing.

She seemed to be out to some extent for several years, some prior to OU.

One of her best friends on the basketball team did not know she was a lesbian, so no she was not out at OU. Got that straight from the friend, who is straight.

 

[tycat947]

My point was that the story states
Ross did not feel comfortable coming
out while at OU.

Isn't that a shame? Wonder why she felt that way?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe because millions of other LGBT individuals don't feel comfortable coming out at campuses all over the country and, in fact, in society all over the world! Where have you been?

 

[womenssports]

I think you are misinformed or uninformed.

I believe the same about you on this matter, so obviously we are not going to agree.

 

[Oliver Hardy]

Syb, you are an idiot.

"Rubis says she met Ross only once in those years, when Ross came to visit Willoughby on campus. "Malika did not tell anyone she was gay," Rubis says. "She told us they were close friends that grew up together." (Ross also remained closeted throughout college, believing the climate to be "unreceptive" to lesbian players, she told her mother.)"


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[SoonerSpock]

As usual, the pot is calling the kettle black.

Read, read, read, ss.

Now if you want to call the players liars, that's one thing, but Griner clearly says Kim knew.

And what makes Griner a creditable source. Kim may have known and she may not have known when Griner signed. You choose to believe Griner because you like Syb wants to believe that anything negative regarding Waco is true.

I would suggest the Griner/Kim issue should be treated like two of your friend in an argument that tell you two different stories wanting your support. I would take the approach of that is a problem for the two of you. Don't involve me as I don't know the truth.

For certain I don't know if Kim knew and you are riding in the same boat with me. All you can do is spread a rumor. You don't believe Griner because of her proven truthfulness with her ability to recant but instead because you want to believe the negativism against Kim.

 

[SoonerSpock]

So if you are an lgbtq person and you want to play basketball at a certain public university, you shouldn't do that if they don't like lesbians. Do the heterosexuals keep it to themselves? No. So by being yourself, you are taunting people with your choices and actions, because being homosexual is a choice?

As far as speculation, I don't agree. When we recruit an out lesbian on our OUWBB team, then I will agree it has changed. When a player is out while playing at OU, then I will agree it has changed. Just because you are not aware of lesbians who have been on the team, does not mean they haven't been. I am aware of one who became very public after graduation. Was at the Pride festival in OKC.

And you know what, none of this has really affected my life. So this is not about me, it is about fairness and equality at our public universities where all of our tax monies go.

Did I lose a couple of friends when I fell in love with a woman and they found out? Yes, but I did not care. When I was an attorney with Legal Aid (supposedly a liberal place to work), I was treated a little differently by some, but again I did not care. NOW, my experience would have been much different had I been homosexual in high school, but I was obsessed with boys.

My point in all of this being that people should be allowed to be who they are and not have to hide, change pronouns, watch what they say, not be able to hold hands in public or go to proms, etc etc and when most women's sports have lesbians who usually are some of their top players, well then how is OU doing any different than Baylor except that Baylor has a manual which does not allow this type of behavior, it is a private university.

Excellent post and yes Baylor is a private university with a Code of Conduct. Enrollment should be acknowledgement that you accept that Code of Conduct.

 

[SoonerSpock]

You keep trying to stage a courtroom drama. This is in the court of public opinion. Given the Baylor track record which has been involved in things like the cover up of a murder, why would you not suspect Baylor? The fact is that Griner is probably more credible in this than is Kim, and she states what happened during recruiting. Was there more money in the lie? Given the type of money involved in payoffs, it seems that the money would be made in keeping it quiet.

Why are you so intent on protecting the image of something that has been tarnished rather profusely? Wouldn't your time be more appropriately defending the OU program since you are supposedly an alum? Why do you side with Baylor so often, but so rarely with OU?

Not in my eyes. It is Griner that has recanted her earlier statements, acknowledged she made less than truth statements to sell her book and apologized to Kim. Having not met or talked with either personally I don't overly trust either. But Griner definitely does not seem more truth than does Kim from afar when look at the known facts.