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This place would be burning down right now if Sampson was the coach, not sure why Capel gets a pass

I disagree.

If KS had experienced losing an entire recruiting class in his first year, then had to put up with the clowns he put up with last year, most would give him a pass...in fact, I'd say he EARNED that (of course, he also got us in a bad situation with the NCAA and since he got Indiana in the same, there's a chance we are on MAJOR probation now)...so you might be right.
 
I disagree.

If KS had experienced losing an entire recruiting class in his first year, then had to put up with the clowns he put up with last year, most would give him a pass...in fact, I'd say he EARNED that (of course, he also got us in a bad situation with the NCAA and since he got Indiana in the same, there's a chance we are on MAJOR probation now)...so you might be right.

Capel didn't lose an entire recruiting class. Crocker, Clark, and Maze were all freshmen that year (as was Gerber, for what that's worth).

And the following players were sophomores or older: Nate Carter, David Goldbold, Taylor Griffin, Austin Johnson, Longar Longar, and Michael Neal (along with Kellen Sampson and Chris Walker, neither of whom was key, obviously).

I never have bought the idea that the cupboard was so very bare that season. I honestly believe Kelvin Sampson wins nineteen or twenty games with that bunch and gets us into the NIT, if not the NCAA tourney.

Most of those players helped us get to the Elite Eight two years later. Yes, Blake came on board, too, which was huge, but we've been told repeatedly on this board that it's not fair to give Blake all the credit for our success in 2008 and '09. Fair enough. Then the players that were here (or honored their commitments) when Capel arrived must not have been as bad as some paint them to be.

The point is, we had decent -- not great, but decent -- talent when Capel arrived and he brought in Blake Griffin in year two.

Even allowing for the disaster that was Tiny and TMG, how did we not have enough good players on hand to survive their departure better than this?

Those inclined to rag on Sampson -- and they were legion -- gave him a pass for nothing. He wasn't Billy Tubbs, and they never forgave him for that, no matter how well the team did.
 
Capel didn't lose an entire recruiting class. Crocker, Clark, and Maze were all freshmen that year (as was Gerber, for what that's worth).

And the following players were sophomores or older: Nate Carter, David Goldbold, Taylor Griffin, Austin Johnson, Longar Longar, and Michael Neal (along with Kellen Sampson and Chris Walker, neither of whom was key, obviously).

I never have bought the idea that the cupboard was so very bare that season. I honestly believe Kelvin Sampson wins nineteen or twenty games with that bunch and gets us into the NIT, if not the NCAA tourney.

Most of those players helped us get to the Elite Eight two years later. Yes, Blake came on board, too, which was huge, but we've been told repeatedly on this board that it's not fair to give Blake all the credit for our success in 2008 and '09. Fair enough. Then the players that were here (or honored their commitments) when Capel arrived must not have been as bad as some paint them to be.

The point is, we had decent -- not great, but decent -- talent when Capel arrived and he brought in Blake Griffin in year two.

Even allowing for the disaster that was Tiny and TMG, how did we not have enough good players on hand to survive their departure better than this?

Those inclined to rag on Sampson -- and they were legion -- gave him a pass for nothing. He wasn't Billy Tubbs, and they never forgave him for that, no matter how well the team did.

I thought I replied to Romulus???

Look, we disagree on how big of a mess KS left us. I get that. Do you REALLY have to reply ANY TIME its mentioned. I realize we had two guys from KS's last class stick it out - of course, one of them had little chance of EVER sticking and we all knew that. He wouldn't have survived EVEN IF KS stayed. I realize there was YOUNG talent here, but the point remains we missed essentially an entire class...it's not exactly how every young, new coach would like to start their career at a school. And we can't really deal in what we THINK KS would've done with the same team. We lost A LOT off of the previous team that only won 20 games, so you want to suggest we win the same or more with less. Well, I'd say most wouldn't agree with that logic.

I only posted in a generic way to Romulus' post...to try and put the entire story together instead of a two-year window.

Just about the time I think I can start understanding some of you guys you begin beating (unsolicited) the same old drum - everything KS good; everything JC bad...
 
Just about the time I think I can start understanding some of you guys you begin beating (unsolicited) the same old drum - everything KS good; everything JC bad...

Hardly. I've criticized Sampson plenty, especially for his actions at the end, and I've praised Capel, too.

But it's funny -- when you repeat the trope that the cupboard was bare when Capel arrived, you're just posting; when I disagree and express my opinion that it wasn't so bare, that we had a decent level of talent on hand, I'm beating a drum.

You're a well-intentioned, honest poster, and I'm a dirty conspirator with an agenda. Got it.

In the future, if you wish your post to be responded to by a particular poster and no one else, it might be best to send it as a PM.
 
I counted conference tourney games for both Sampson and Capel, so that's a moot point.

And my source of info didn't list end of the season rankings. Do your own homework if you care to. I stand by my info; it supports my point.

The notion that the Big 12 used to suck but is great now is simply not true.

Not really because it doesn't give a snapshot of the entire conference.
 
All that has happened in the last 2 - 3 years is Jeff. The fact that 3 players left last year is all on him. His assistant coaches are all on him. You can give him a pass all you want to but this is his team and so have been the last 2-3 years. If you think that is good then love him and keep him. If you don't (like me) then the sooner (pun intended) he is gone the better.
 
Lucky for me I have been complaining since last year. I defended Capel his first year.
 
Hardly. I've criticized Sampson plenty, especially for his actions at the end, and I've praised Capel, too.

But it's funny -- when you repeat the trope that the cupboard was bare when Capel arrived, you're just posting; when I disagree and express my opinion that it wasn't so bare, that we had a decent level of talent on hand, I'm beating a drum.

You're a well-intentioned, honest poster, and I'm a dirty conspirator with an agenda. Got it.

In the future, if you wish your post to be responded to by a particular poster and no one else, it might be best to send it as a PM.

I NEVER said or have said the cupboard was bare. I simply recognize there was some SIGNIFICANT issues when JC arrived. YOU don't want to recognize that. And, like I said, I made a general observation re: Roms post. You had to go into a 4 paragraph rant about how I'm wrong and make assumptions on what might have been.

If you were posting as vigorously during good times as you are during bad (during JC's tenure), then I'd be more inclined to value your point of view.
 
Jeez. I can't believe one little funny post turned into three pages of discussion.
 
Hardly. I've criticized Sampson plenty, especially for his actions at the end, and I've praised Capel, too.

But it's funny -- when you repeat the trope that the cupboard was bare when Capel arrived, you're just posting; when I disagree and express my opinion that it wasn't so bare, that we had a decent level of talent on hand, I'm beating a drum.

You're a well-intentioned, honest poster, and I'm a dirty conspirator with an agenda. Got it.

In the future, if you wish your post to be responded to by a particular poster and no one else, it might be best to send it as a PM.

This could not possibly have been a better post.
 
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