Kelvin will be bringing the number one team in the country to Norman

[MsProudSooner]

Yep, I'm amused by how the opinion of Kelvin has changed through the years. Almost revisionist history. It seems as if people want to remember the two years of super success and think that was his entire tenure- not the same coach that got bounced the first weekend 8 of 11 trips.

Many of the same people who now love his discipline and hard-nosed attitude used to complain about his arrogance and lack of freedom to players. Some of those who wish our teams had his defense and rebounding tenacity used to whine about the offense, scoring lapses, and the bubble drill.

As for me, I liked Kelvin and was gut-punched the day he left for Indiana. He was cool to me and my family at events and tip-in dinners, but I also understood the complaints. Heart, hustle, and hardwood weren't always a compliment when used by fans and on the old message boards. Granted, I also think time and time in the NBA improved Kelvin as a coach and also mellowed him, even just a bit. And I think he will dominate the new Big XII along with KU.

It will be awesome to see Kelvin, Kellen, Quannas, and Hollis back in the LNC again. But it won't be their first time. IIRC, Kelvin did coach in one of the alumni games LK used to do, and Hollis and Kellen played. Their appearance in front of 11K is long overdue as, honestly, past time for a couple of them to be in the rafters too, but that is another subject for another day. And as much as I liked Kelvin, his success and time at OU won't mean anything Saturday night as despite my affection for them and their return, you better believe I'll be screaming against them.

I'll be rooting for the high-energy guy in the extra short-sleeved polos and 1/4 zip OU pullovers, not the one that used to wear denim. All season and post season.

I've searched but I can't find any posts where people said they were going to root for Houston over OU. I guess I just missed them.

 

[skyvue]

Yep, I don’t recall people wanting to run him out of town. He got us on probation for such a dumb reason, he could’ve used a personal phone instead of the university phone, but was too dumb or arrogant not to. Joe C. defended him. Then left us for Indiana and and that is when some fans got mad at him. I was on Kelvin’s Crew, and was pretty disappointed.

Oh, plenty of fans were mad at Kelvin at least up until the Final Four year. After all, he committed the unpardonable sin of not being the second coming of Billy Tubbs. I spent many hours defending Sampson from his detractors before and after the phone calls situation. He lost me when, having put us on probation, he cut and ran on us. That's what made me angry. You make a mess like that, you stay to clean it up. That was a less than honorable--one might even say cowardly--action on his part.

But as I say, I was a staunch defender prior to that and it was a full-time job. MJSooner is correct: There's been a massive revision of history in the years since, but that's not surprising. It's pretty much human nature. But he caught all kinds of grief on Sooner boards for much of his time in Norman.

 

[MJSooner]

I've searched but I can't find any posts where people said they were going to root for Houston over OU. I guess I just missed them.

Went back and re-read my original post- can't find anywhere where I said OU fans would be rooting for Houston over OU. I guess I just missed it.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Oh, plenty of fans were mad at Kelvin at least up until the Final Four year. After all, he committed the unpardonable sin of not being the second coming of Billy Tubbs. I spent many hours defending Sampson from his detractors before and after the phone calls situation. He lost me when, having put us on probation, he cut and ran on us. That's what made me angry. You make a mess like that, you stay to clean it up. That was a less than honorable--one might even say cowardly--action on his part.

But as I say, I was a staunch defender prior to that and it was a full-time job. MJSooner is correct: There's been a massive revision of history in the years since, but that's not surprising. It's pretty much human nature. But he caught all kinds of grief on Sooner boards for much of his time in Norman.

Agree except I wasn’t too angry he left because it was to indiana

 

[WTSooner]

It seems as if people want to remember the two years of super success and think that was his entire tenure- not the same coach that got bounced the first weekend 8 of 11 trips.

lol

You say that as if getting bounced in the first round 8 out of 10 seasons wouldn't be a MASSIVE improvement over any 8 year stretch we've had since.

Matter of fact, we've only MADE the tournament NINE times since Kelvin left. NINE times in EIGHTEEN seasons (not counting this one).

So yeah, I crave the consistency that Kelvin put on the court, even if they weren't a team that excelled in the NCAA Tournament during much of his time on campus. Because we sure as heck haven't done even that well since.

 

[inoref]

Kelvin bringing a case of Ban Deodorant with him

 

[MJSooner]

lol

You say that as if getting bounced in the first round 8 out of 10 seasons wouldn't be a MASSIVE improvement over any 8 year stretch we've had since.

Matter of fact, we've only MADE the tournament NINE times since Kelvin left. NINE times in EIGHTEEN seasons (not counting this one).

So yeah, I craze the consistency that Kelvin put on the court, even if they weren't a team that excelled in the NCAA Tournament during much of his time on campus. Because we sure as heck haven't done even that well since.

I simply made a point that a lot of people complained about Kelvin WHILE he was here. A lot.

Personally, as I said in my post, I was floored and disappointed when he left but also understood those who complained. My biggest beef was the recruiting as I felt if he got better players, he could take us higher places. But many hated his arrogance, his style of play, and lack of HS Top 100 recruiting success and losing guys like Eton Thomas, Sheldon Williams, and Giddens, Case, and Jackson to KU.

I brought up the NCAA record as it was a huge complaint of fans. Too many first-weekend exits, including too many as the higher seed. Losing to teams like Manhattan, Indiana St, and Milwaukee Wisconsin. A lot of unhappy fans during those years not winning bigger, and the old message boards reflected it. The peek 3-5 years of his success didn't equate to what he achieved in his last 3 years, and how he finished his time here. After those 3-5 years ended in 2003, we lost in the Big XII tourney as higher seeds two of three years, lost in the NIT, and lost in the NCAA to lower seeds twice. Again, a lot of people wanted him gone after the 1st round loss to UWM in 2006.

But NOW there are a ton of "fans" that act like Kelvin was just a slight notch below Billy in success AND popularity. He wasn't. And they conflate his success in those 3 to maybe 5 years as the norm of his achievements. It wasn't.

As far as how that compares to the current era or years since his departure, I've not argued the 18 years since he was gone was better than the 12 years he was here. Never made that statement. Just simply reminding people of the mood of fans when he was here doesn't always match the perception of what people recite now.

IMO, as a message board lurker, Tip In Club member, and season ticket holder of 20+ years, Kelvin is more popular in Norman in 2024 than he ever was when he lived here.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

I definitely remember people being unhappy with kelvin. I was not one of them

 

[WTSooner]

I simply made a point that a lot of people complained about Kelvin WHILE he was here. A lot.

Personally, as I said in my post, I was floored and disappointed when he left but also understood those who complained. My biggest beef was the recruiting as I felt if he got better players, he could take us higher places. But many hated his arrogance, his style of play, and lack of HS Top 100 recruiting success and losing guys like Eton Thomas, Sheldon Williams, and Giddens, Case, and Jackson to KU.

I brought up the NCAA record as it was a huge complaint of fans. Too many first-weekend exits, including too many as the higher seed. Losing to teams like Manhattan, Indiana St, and Milwaukee Wisconsin. A lot of unhappy fans during those years not winning bigger, and the old message boards reflected it. The peek 3-5 years of his success didn't equate to what he achieved in his last 3 years, and how he finished his time here. After those 3-5 years ended in 2003, we lost in the Big XII tourney as higher seeds two of three years, lost in the NIT, and lost in the NCAA to lower seeds twice. Again, a lot of people wanted him gone after the 1st round loss to UWM in 2006.

But NOW there are a ton of "fans" that act like Kelvin was just a slight notch below Billy in success AND popularity. He wasn't. And they conflate his success in those 3 to maybe 5 years as the norm of his achievements. It wasn't.

As far as how that compares to the current era or years since his departure, I've not argued the 18 years since he was gone was better than the 12 years he was here. Never made that statement. Just simply reminding people of the mood of fans when he was here doesn't always match the perception of what people recite now.

IMO, as a message board lurker, Tip In Club member, and season ticket holder of 20+ years, Kelvin is more popular in Norman in 2024 than he ever was when he lived here.

There is more to evaluating the success of a coach than record in the NCAA Tournament. Especially if you aren't going to handicap it for crazy injuries and such.

Literally every other aspect of Kelvin's tenure at OU was top notch. Weaker conference or not, his teams finished T-3 or better in 10 of 12 seasons. That is OUTSTANDING for any non-blue blood school. To do that should be viewed as incredible. He only had seasons finish below 20 wins twice, and those were in years 2 and 3 of his tenure.

It took Kelvin about 4 years to get his feet under him, but you could see the upward trajectory he had the program on from that point until he left. And it would have gotten really special had he stuck around for his last recruiting class. Kelvin was building up the OU bball program at time when a lot of eyes were on the rebuilt OU Sooners football team.

I agree there was a crowd that didn't like Kelvin. They are the crowd that doesn't understand basketball and that there are more than one way to win games. Just because that was a loud crowd at times, doesn't mean they were right or that they were even the majority. They weren't.

I don't think OU losing some games in the Round of 32 should be frowned upon. If OU were a top 15-25 program, that is, on average, where they should have been losing. Take out Kelvin's first 4 years, and he only lost in the 1st round two out of the next seven seasons. One of those Hollis got injured. Two other times during that time frame we lost in the second round. That means three of the last seven seasons he went to the Sweet 16 or better.

I disagree with your last line. There were/are plenty of fans that loved Kelvin when he was here, and knew how good we had it. It was the casual fans (football fans) and some legit basketball fans that think they always know best that didn't like him. The fans that went to the games? That lived in Norman? The bigger donors for the bball program? They all loved him.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

Yep, I'm amused by how the opinion of Kelvin has changed through the years. Almost revisionist history. It seems as if people want to remember the two years of super success and think that was his entire tenure- not the same coach that got bounced the first weekend 8 of 11 trips.

Many of the same people who now love his discipline and hard-nosed attitude used to complain about his arrogance and lack of freedom to players. Some of those who wish our teams had his defense and rebounding tenacity used to whine about the offense, scoring lapses, and the bubble drill.

As for me, I liked Kelvin and was gut-punched the day he left for Indiana. He was cool to me and my family at events and tip-in dinners, but I also understood the complaints. Heart, hustle, and hardwood weren't always a compliment when used by fans and on the old message boards. Granted, I also think time and time in the NBA improved Kelvin as a coach and also mellowed him, even just a bit. And I think he will dominate the new Big XII along with KU.

It will be awesome to see Kelvin, Kellen, Quannas, and Hollis back in the LNC again. But it won't be their first time. IIRC, Kelvin did coach in one of the alumni games LK used to do, and Hollis and Kellen played. Their appearance in front of 11K is long overdue as, honestly, past time for a couple of them to be in the rafters too, but that is another subject for another day. And as much as I liked Kelvin, his success and time at OU won't mean anything Saturday night as despite my affection for them and their return, you better believe I'll be screaming against them.

I'll be rooting for the high-energy guy in the extra short-sleeved polos and 1/4 zip OU pullovers, not the one that used to wear denim. All season and post season.

Very well said. I agree with everything you said. I loved KS, but I also loved Billy, Lon, and I wasn't a hater of Capel. I exchanged some great emails with Capel back in the day, and I hated how his time here went and ended. I don't spend a lot of time trying to decide which coaches should stay. Since the 70s I just show up and cheer for the guys with the OU on. I trust the leaders to make the right decisions at the right time when it comes to changes. So much focus on who we want out takes the fun of being a fan out of the equation, IMO. I get it, it's a message board and it lives off of discussion, debate, and opinion, but sometimes it just gets unbearable because you have those you MUST be right at all costs, and every discussion becomes their dumping ground.

I started message boarding a few months after my son was murdered. A former coworker introduced me to the concept, and I loved it because it was a place to get away. This will be the last thing I say about the subject, and I'm certainly not attacking or blaming anyone. I will continue to exercise my right to just ignore things I don't want to get caught up in. I've already broken my personal rule of not joining these type of discussion.

 

[skyvue]

lol

You say that as if getting bounced in the first round 8 out of 10 seasons wouldn't be a MASSIVE improvement over any 8 year stretch we've had since.

Matter of fact, we've only MADE the tournament NINE times since Kelvin left. NINE times in EIGHTEEN seasons (not counting this one).

It's 17 seasons since Sampson left (y'know, this info is available online). In Sampson's best eight-year stretch, we went to the tourney eight times; his tourney record was 10-8 over the span, with four first-round exits, a Sweet 16, an Elite Eight and a Final Four.

In Kruger's best eight-year stretch, we made the tourney six times; his record was 8-6, with two first-round exits, a Sweet 16 and a Final Four. Was Sampson's eight-year stretch better than Kruger's? Yes. Was it MASSIVELY better? That's debatable.

You lumped Capel, Kruger and Moser together, which as is demonstrated above, does a major disservice to Kruger.

It's worth remembering, too, that unlike Sampson and Capel, Kruger moved on without leaving OU on probation.

 

[Eielson]

You couldn't put together a roster Sampson couldn't find a way to win 20 wins with. He lost a lot of early NCAA tourney games, though, which caused many to underappreciate him. He has kicked it into another gear, but it's amazing to see how spoiled we were.

 

[skyvue]

You couldn't put together a roster Sampson couldn't find a way to win 20 wins with. He lost a lot of early NCAA tourney games, though, which caused many to underappreciate him. He has kicked it into another gear, but it's amazing to see how spoiled we were.

Not just early. OU lost in the second round as a 3 seed in 2000, in the first round as 4 seed in '01, missed the tourney in '04, lost in the second round as a 3 seed in '05 and lost in the first round as a 6 seed in '06, his final season.

 

[mict085]

Oh, plenty of fans were mad at Kelvin at least up until the Final Four year. After all, he committed the unpardonable sin of not being the second coming of Billy Tubbs. I spent many hours defending Sampson from his detractors before and after the phone calls situation. He lost me when, having put us on probation, he cut and ran on us. That's what made me angry. You make a mess like that, you stay to clean it up. That was a less than honorable--one might even say cowardly--action on his part.

But as I say, I was a staunch defender prior to that and it was a full-time job. MJSooner is correct: There's been a massive revision of history in the years since, but that's not surprising. It's pretty much human nature. But he caught all kinds of grief on Sooner boards for much of his time in Norman.

I remember many people, myself included, being so frustrated that we were so good during the regular season but we fell on our faces in the tourney. It was hugely disappointing but I didn’t want Kelvin fired. I really liked him and thought then that he was a good coach.

I also had similar feelings as you when he left. He made the mess, he should’ve cleaned it up instead of bailing on us. There was a video of Kelvin and Joe c answering some questions, maybe a direct ncaa hearing…but it was odd and full of tension. As time has passed, I wonder if Kelvin felt like he was hung out to dry by Joe C. Yes, Kelvin seemed arrogant during the whole process but think about how absurd it was for Kelvin to get punished for text messages while everyone around us was paying players and academic fraud. I think that process burned the bridge between Joe c and Kelvin. Once Indiana came calling, it was a no brainer for him.

Kelvin became a better coach after spending some time in the NBA. If Kelvin had stayed at OU, he still would’ve been held back by the obstacles that every OU coach faces. Lack of admin support. We would’ve won 20 games every year and made the tourney, but there’s a glass ceiling at OU because of the lack of support and resources.

Outside of 3-4 seasons, OU basketball has been a dumpster fire since Kelvin left. Now with NIL and the portal, that lack of support is magnified and the program is struggling mightily.

 

[Eielson]

Not just early. OU lost in the second round as a 3 seed in 2000, in the first round as 4 seed in '01, missed the tourney in '04, lost in the second round as a 3 seed in '05 and lost in the first round as a 6 seed in '06, his final season.

Yes, I meant to say early losses in the NCAA tournament. Not early in his career.

I thought with the influx in talent, he would get past this. His time in the NBA also helped. You could never count his teams out, but you also couldn't take anything for granted.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I remember many people, myself included, being so frustrated that we were so good during the regular season but we fell on our faces in the tourney. It was hugely disappointing but I didn’t want Kelvin fired. I really liked him and thought then that he was a good coach.

I also had similar feelings as you when he left. He made the mess, he should’ve cleaned it up instead of bailing on us. There was a video of Kelvin and Joe c answering some questions, maybe a direct ncaa hearing…but it was odd and full of tension. As time has passed, I wonder if Kelvin felt like he was hung out to dry by Joe C. Yes, Kelvin seemed arrogant during the whole process but think about how absurd it was for Kelvin to get punished for text messages while everyone around us was paying players and academic fraud. I think that process burned the bridge between Joe c and Kelvin. Once Indiana came calling, it was a no brainer for him.

Kelvin became a better coach after spending some time in the NBA. If Kelvin had stayed at OU, he still would’ve been held back by the obstacles that every OU coach faces. Lack of admin support. We would’ve won 20 games every year and made the tourney, but there’s a glass ceiling at OU because of the lack of support and resources.

Outside of 3-4 seasons, OU basketball has been a dumpster fire since Kelvin left. Now with NIL and the portal, that lack of support is magnified and the program is struggling mightily.

Making the ncaa tournament is almost never a dumpster fire of a season. Perhaps if you’re KU or Duke or a handful of other schools, you could consider it a dumpster fire if you sneak into the tourney and lose in the first round. But for at least 95 percent of schools, it’s hyperbole to say it’s a disaster when you’re making the tourney pretty much every year.

As for a glass ceiling, how many programs would you say don’t face a glass ceiling? Out last three legitimate coaches have taken us to a FF. There aren’t a ton of programs that can make that claim. Anyone who frequents this board is obviously an OU basketball aficionado, and we would all love for more resources to be poured into the program. But I’d bet 80 percent or more programs feels that way, even at the P5 level. Think how many programs haven’t been to any FFs in the past couple decades.

 

[opsooner]

There is more to evaluating the success of a coach than record in the NCAA Tournament. Especially if you aren't going to handicap it for crazy injuries and such.

Literally every other aspect of Kelvin's tenure at OU was top notch. Weaker conference or not, his teams finished T-3 or better in 10 of 12 seasons. That is OUTSTANDING for any non-blue blood school. To do that should be viewed as incredible. He only had seasons finish below 20 wins twice, and those were in years 2 and 3 of his tenure.

It took Kelvin about 4 years to get his feet under him, but you could see the upward trajectory he had the program on from that point until he left. And it would have gotten really special had he stuck around for his last recruiting class. Kelvin was building up the OU bball program at time when a lot of eyes were on the rebuilt OU Sooners football team.

I agree there was a crowd that didn't like Kelvin. They are the crowd that doesn't understand basketball and that there are more than one way to win games. Just because that was a loud crowd at times, doesn't mean they were right or that they were even the majority. They weren't.

I don't think OU losing some games in the Round of 32 should be frowned upon. If OU were a top 15-25 program, that is, on average, where they should have been losing. Take out Kelvin's first 4 years, and he only lost in the 1st round two out of the next seven seasons. One of those Hollis got injured. Two other times during that time frame we lost in the second round. That means three of the last seven seasons he went to the Sweet 16 or better.

I disagree with your last line. There were/are plenty of fans that loved Kelvin when he was here, and knew how good we had it. It was the casual fans (football fans) and some legit basketball fans that think they always know best that didn't like him. The fans that went to the games? That lived in Norman? The bigger donors for the bball program? They all loved him.

Yep. I was and still am a big Kelvin fan. He is a cocky son of a gun but he’s earned his right to be. There were critics at OU but I was never one.

I guess if you were going to be a critic it is that a lot of his teams at OU weren’t loaded with deep talent. But I think you and I are the same on this, I loved watching his guys develop and become very good at what he wanted them to become good at. And the defense was always good even though the offense was not always. But he always had 1-2 tough guys who could score when you needed it.

 

[WTSooner]

It's 17 seasons since Sampson left (y'know, this info is available online).

Feel better? Good grief. I obviously started by counting this season, then since the season wasn't over, decided not to count it (said as much) and didn't update my seasons. I was off 1 year. That changes nothing. But good catch. I'm sure you went stat hunting to find something I missed and THAT is what you came up with.

Some of ya'll make this place unbearable.

 

[WTSooner]

It's 17 seasons since Sampson left (y'know, this info is available online). In Sampson's best eight-year stretch, we went to the tourney eight times; his tourney record was 10-8 over the span, with four first-round exits, a Sweet 16, an Elite Eight and a Final Four.

In Kruger's best eight-year stretch, we made the tourney six times; his record was 8-6, with two first-round exits, a Sweet 16 and a Final Four. Was Sampson's eight-year stretch better than Kruger's? Yes. Was it MASSIVELY better? That's debatable.

You lumped Capel, Kruger and Moser together, which as is demonstrated above, does a major disservice to Kruger.

It's worth remembering, too, that unlike Sampson and Capel, Kruger moved on without leaving OU on probation.

Kruger's tenure takes a deduction because of his last 5 seasons and the fact that he followed up his FF appearance with one of the worst seasons in OU basketball history.

Measuring coaches isn't just about how good the good is. How bad the bad is matters too.

 

[skyvue]

Feel better? Good grief. I obviously started by counting this season, then since the season wasn't over, decided not to count it (said as much) and didn't update my seasons. I was off 1 year. That changes nothing. But good catch. I'm sure you went stat hunting to find something I missed and THAT is what you came up with.

Some of ya'll make this place unbearable.

I didn't have to go hunting; one seldom does with your posts. Your characterization of that span in OU hoops history was absurdly inaccurate on its face. Kruger belongs in the conversation with Tubbs and Sampson, not Moser or Capel. And thanks to Kruger, the past 17 years, as I demonstrated with actual facts and figures, haven't been nearly as dire as you tried to depict them. As for you accusing others of making this place unbearable, I can only chuckle at the irony.