Kelvin will be bringing the number one team in the country to Norman

1996 was simple: we finished third in the Big 8 at 8-6. Back then, that was a mortal lock. Lost to Missouri and Derek Grimm in the first round in KC. Erdmann hit a big trey to force OT from the top of the key if memory serves.

1997: hot in KC. Beat Chauncey Billups and Colorado (the 2-seed) to push us through. Lost to that bastard Jason Southerland (sp) and Mizzou who was, I believe, a 10-seed!

I'll have much more to add to this topic later. We should never sell short Sampson making the tourney all but one year, and the one year he missed (2004) we still went .500 in the league. Gave a pretty good Texas team (LaMarcus Aldridge....maybe? Daniel Gibson....I think?) all they wanted in Dallas. Led the whole way but bled out.

I also think we should never sell short just how good a job Lon did in 2012. In turn, I'll never forget the conflagration of Tokyo, otherwise known as the 2017 season.
I think we'll look back on this year as a massive success for Porter Moser. Back in the Sampson years, most people definitely were not happy with a tournament bid every year, which led to him in coaching rumors every single year. (Sound familar?)
 
I mean.....that doesn't really change my point. Like, at all.

Changes the math a bit is all. I mean to include the COVID year. Meant to include it as a miss. Just I was going to mention it in an asterisk, just didn't get around to it.

You want to pull that year out. Fine. I chose not to.

Feel free to get caught up with 1 or 2 years, and 9% failure rate difference. I wouldn't want to argue the facts either, but you've never really known what this conversation was about anyways (thought you were leaving this discussion?), so I'm not surprised.

If you are happy/content with Moser, pat yourself on the back and move on. I'm not, many others are not, and Joe C. probably isn't. Regardless of what happens the rest of the year, I hope Moser is either fired or moves on. He isn't the guy to lead this program to where most of us want it to be. I'm certain of that. And at the end of the day, THAT is the point I'm trying to make.
I left that other conversation, bc you belittle people when you don't have a proper answer as some bravado.

This one, yes, 9% is a pretty big difference.

If you won a $100 million powerball and they said, "Oh, hey there was a mix-up and you are only getting $50m instead of $59m, that is a pretty wild difference."

I can see the idea of some saying 9m is not a big difference, but to some it is a world of difference. I have yet to see you concede any points or offer any opposing causation as to your random rhetoric. So for now I am still in this conversation, but if you continue the way that you do, I will probably have to exit this conversation with you as well. I can only try to have a reasonable discussion so many times when the other side just plugs their ears and points fingers wildly.

(Still notice how you didn't respond to the other one either, but clearly read it)
 
1996 was simple: we finished third in the Big 8 at 8-6. Back then, that was a mortal lock. Lost to Missouri and Derek Grimm in the first round in KC. Erdmann hit a big trey to force OT from the top of the key if memory serves.

1997: hot in KC. Beat Chauncey Billups and Colorado (the 2-seed) to push us through. Lost to that bastard Jason Southerland (sp) and Mizzou who was, I believe, a 10-seed!

I'll have much more to add to this topic later. We should never sell short Sampson making the tourney all but one year, and the one year he missed (2004) we still went .500 in the league. Gave a pretty good Texas team (LaMarcus Aldridge....maybe? Daniel Gibson....I think?) all they wanted in Dallas. Led the whole way but bled out.

I also think we should never sell short just how good a job Lon did in 2012. In turn, I'll never forget the conflagration of Tokyo, otherwise known as the 2017 season.
Thanks for this, I was a little younger back then and wasn't as deeply into Sooners' basketball that I am today. Was going off stats and efficiency ratings looking at the years.

Training with Terry Evans re-ignited the fire I had and I remember him wanting a shot at the coaching job very badly when he was in discussions for it.

I miss me some Nate Erdmann, Ernie Abercrombie, and even some Johnnie Gilbert who was the nicest dude. Played basketball with his cousin at camps.
 
I agree. A team/program with no discipline or public embarrassment issues, improved attendance (after this week, 6 of the last 7 home games sold out), student excitement at games, really good recruiting, national ranking most of the year, and a practical lock to return to the NCAA tourney.

Why would there be any consideration to fire him or be concerned about what he is building? Is that not better than the previous two years and moving forward?

The things that would cause Joe some concern are things Moser cannot control- BMDs contributions, arena certainty, or city of Norman support. Honestly? Those fall more on the back and blame of Joe C and Joe H. But with the focus so high on football, maybe they've not spent the time or focus drumming up basketball support as is needed.

Is Moser without faults? No. Does he still need to improve? Yes. Is it possible for PM (or any coach willing to set roots in Norman) to meet the expectations of some of our fans? I'm not sure. Doubtfully. But does Moser's job performance after this season put his job in jeopardy? Absolutely not.
Jury very much out on the recruiting, or at least, development. As for comparing things to the past two years, I guess the argument is that he has jumped over the low bar he set his first two seasons? Shouldn't the better question be how things are compared to when he was hired? If I get hired to take over a company from a very successful manager, and I do a poor job my first two years but improve my third, is that a success if we are still lagging behind where we were under my predecessor?
 
Funny story about how little I think of you.

2022. Sometime between Thanksgiving and Christmas. I was eating at Jersey Mike's in Tulsa Hills. You and the wife strolled in. Sat at the table directly in front of me. I didn't say a word or introduce myself because, well, you are you.

I'll be gone soon enough, when I'm ready to be gone. In the meantime, you don't like something I say feel free to ignore it and move on.

🤡

Little creepy but you are you. Feel free to introduce yourself next time.

Jerseys mikes hits the spot sometimes. Mikes way plus pickles.
 
Jury very much out on the recruiting, or at least, development. As for comparing things to the past two years, I guess the argument is that he has jumped over the low bar he set his first two seasons? Shouldn't the better question be how things are compared to when he was hired? If I get hired to take over a company from a very successful manager, and I do a poor job my first two years but improve my third, is that a success if we are still lagging behind where we were under my predecessor?
Jury is not out on recruiting. His HS recruits have been cumulatively ranked higher than any coach since Billy Tubbs, without probation. That is a fact.

And I'll play along- what if you got hired by a company, that just came off marginal results that were below street expectations, where 75% of the employees had walked out the door, the financials of the company were not sound, poor facilities, poor training, and you turned that company into a profitable company by year 3, where your performance beat expectations (picked 12 of 14), and you had no embarrassing company issues?? What would you're performance evaluation be?

My guess is that would be a positive conversation with the board. Because yes, that is called success and trending upward.
 
Jury is not out on recruiting. His HS recruits have been cumulatively ranked higher than any coach since Billy Tubbs, without probation. That is a fact.

And I'll play along- what if you got hired by a company, that just came off marginal results that were below street expectations, where 75% of the employees had walked out the door, the financials of the company were not sound, poor facilities, poor training, and you turned that company into a profitable company by year 3, where your performance beat expectations (picked 12 of 14), and you had no embarrassing company issues?? What would you're performance evaluation be?

My guess is that would be a positive conversation with the board. Because yes, that is called success and trending upward.
Love how hard some of you work to pretend like Moser's results have surpassed Kruger's. Also love how many of you claim to be experts on our facilities and "training" compared to other programs.

And I guess people want it both ways -- claim he is a great recruiter, but then, we we consistently fail to be competitive against half the league, turn around and say, "hey, what do you expect, our roster isn't nearly good enough" to expect us to beat those teams.
 
Love how hard some of you work to pretend like Moser's results have surpassed Kruger's. Also love how many of you claim to be experts on our facilities and "training" compared to other programs.

And I guess people want it both ways -- claim he is a great recruiter, but then, we we consistently fail to be competitive against half the league, turn around and say, "hey, what do you expect, our roster isn't nearly good enough" to expect us to beat those teams.
Dude, it's you that's trying too hard to come up with stuff that isn't there.

I have never once said Moser's results surpassed Kruger's. It hasn't been. I was a staunch defender of LK on this board and TOS. And I was simply pointing out the condition of the program in April of 2021 and the progress to now. There has been tremendous progress when there were only 4 players on the roster, and 3 of those weren't Big XII starting material. Only three players with any real MPG and a hodge-podge staff in the toughest conference in America.

Compare that to now where we are on the cusp of 20 wins and the NCAA tournament, two traditional measures of a good year, and that would be defined as progress and success. I'm not sure why that is a debate.

And you cannot say he hasn't recruited well. The rankings show that to be a fact. But with trying to fill spots to field a team, along with getting HS talent, he couldn't go out and pull in all freshmen. The Fab Five aren't coming to OU. So he has balanced the roster with experience, young talent, and transfers that can contribute. This year, he got the athletes to compete, hence the results that have come on the floor. And I expect next year to see more improvement, especially if he can keep Los, JMac, and Moore in Norman.

I'm just glad the message board wasn't around when Billy was hired. You and others would have been calling for his ouster after going 9-18 and following up the next year with the NIT, and Wayman Tisdale would have been remembered as the greatest player TU ever produced.
 
Dude, it's you that's trying too hard to come up with stuff that isn't there.

I have never once said Moser's results surpassed Kruger's. It hasn't been. I was a staunch defender of LK on this board and TOS. And I was simply pointing out the condition of the program in April of 2021 and the progress to now. There has been tremendous progress when there were only 4 players on the roster, and 3 of those weren't Big XII starting material. Only three players with any real MPG and a hodge-podge staff in the toughest conference in America.

Compare that to now where we are on the cusp of 20 wins and the NCAA tournament, two traditional measures of a good year, and that would be defined as progress and success. I'm not sure why that is a debate.

And you cannot say he hasn't recruited well. The rankings show that to be a fact. But with trying to fill spots to field a team, along with getting HS talent, he couldn't go out and pull in all freshmen. The Fab Five aren't coming to OU. So he has balanced the roster with experience, young talent, and transfers that can contribute. This year, he got the athletes to compete, hence the results that have come on the floor. And I expect next year to see more improvement, especially if he can keep Los, JMac, and Moore in Norman.

I'm just glad the message board wasn't around when Billy was hired. You and others would have been calling for his ouster after going 9-18 and following up the next year with the NIT, and Wayman Tisdale would have been remembered as the greatest player TU ever produced.

Every situation is different. When Kelvin left and all the top recruits went with him, and the portal didn't exist, I went into Capel's first year knowing that their record would be terrible and that we would take a big step back. Much like when Lon was hired, I knew things were so bleak that expecting quick success, let alone a tourney berth, was unrealistic. Likewise, when pro teams I follow go through a legit rebuild and purge the roster, I know you have to look at things other than wins and losses.

I didn't call to fire Moser after year one. I thought he disappointed in many ways, but not enough to be canned. Last year was a huge step back. This year is better, although let's be honest -- if we didn't make a prayer on Saturday, we would be probably looking at about 1 in 3 odds of making the tourney. That one shot doesn't convince me that the progress has been as much as we should have seen by this point.
 
1996 was simple: we finished third in the Big 8 at 8-6. Back then, that was a mortal lock. Lost to Missouri and Derek Grimm in the first round in KC. Erdmann hit a big trey to force OT from the top of the key if memory serves.

1997: hot in KC. Beat Chauncey Billups and Colorado (the 2-seed) to push us through. Lost to that bastard Jason Southerland (sp) and Mizzou who was, I believe, a 10-seed!

I'll have much more to add to this topic later. We should never sell short Sampson making the tourney all but one year, and the one year he missed (2004) we still went .500 in the league. Gave a pretty good Texas team (LaMarcus Aldridge....maybe? Daniel Gibson....I think?) all they wanted in Dallas. Led the whole way but bled out.

I also think we should never sell short just how good a job Lon did in 2012. In turn, I'll never forget the conflagration of Tokyo, otherwise known as the 2017 season.
Lon's 2012 year and KS's 1994 team were arguably the two best coaching jobs in my lifetime.....like getting blood from a stone. Neither one of those teams had much of a roster outside of 1 or 2 really good players and both teams finished with winning conference records.
 
Love how hard some of you work to pretend like Moser's results have surpassed Kruger's. Also love how many of you claim to be experts on our facilities and "training" compared to other programs.

And I guess people want it both ways -- claim he is a great recruiter, but then, we we consistently fail to be competitive against half the league, turn around and say, "hey, what do you expect, our roster isn't nearly good enough" to expect us to beat those teams.
You can't compare Moser's first 2 years to Kruger's because Kruger didn't have to deal with the NIL and the portal. I don't know about the SEC but competing in the Big XII from 2023 forward means you have to be competitive in the NIL as well coaching. I don't mean you have to throw money around indiscriminately the way some schools do, but I suspect some of our high-dollar boosters need to make sure basketball has a good NIL offering that will appeal to players. Sadly, if you can't compete in the NIL area it might not matter who your coach is.
 
1996 was simple: we finished third in the Big 8 at 8-6. Back then, that was a mortal lock. Lost to Missouri and Derek Grimm in the first round in KC. Erdmann hit a big trey to force OT from the top of the key if memory serves.

1997: hot in KC. Beat Chauncey Billups and Colorado (the 2-seed) to push us through. Lost to that bastard Jason Southerland (sp) and Mizzou who was, I believe, a 10-seed!

I'll have much more to add to this topic later. We should never sell short Sampson making the tourney all but one year, and the one year he missed (2004) we still went .500 in the league. Gave a pretty good Texas team (LaMarcus Aldridge....maybe? Daniel Gibson....I think?) all they wanted in Dallas. Led the whole way but bled out.

I also think we should never sell short just how good a job Lon did in 2012. In turn, I'll never forget the conflagration of Tokyo, otherwise known as the 2017 season.

Kelvin had a few close calls for sure. We had no business making it in 1996 despite the 8-6 conference record. Every post-season article I read pointed out that OU was undeserving...and an embarrassing performance against Temple in the Dance ensued. In 1997, the only reason we made it was because Texas Tech had to drop out at the last minute (forgot the details). The Selection Committee Chairperson indicated that OU essentially replaced Texas Tech. In 1998, we were on the bubble going into the Conference Tournament, needing two wins. When we got three, I wasn't sweating it out on Selection Sunday despite the third straight double-digit seed. Then came our fourth consecutive double-digit seed in 1999 as OU was the last team selected into the Dance and proceeded to make a nice run into the second weekend.
 
You can't compare Moser's first 2 years to Kruger's because Kruger didn't have to deal with the NIL and the portal. I don't know about the SEC but competing in the Big XII from 2023 forward means you have to be competitive in the NIL as well coaching. I don't mean you have to throw money around indiscriminately the way some schools do, but I suspect some of our high-dollar boosters need to make sure basketball has a good NIL offering that will appeal to players. Sadly, if you can't compete in the NIL area it might not matter who your coach is.
That’s what made Lon’s situation much tougher. He couldn’t simply come in, identity areas of need, and hit the portal. He had no choice but to make the best he could have the Capel leftovers in year one, while bringing in a few late recruits and starting on the 2012 class. You don’t think, with his connections and the respect he had around the country, that he could have brought in some very good D-1 transfers in year one if the portal existed? And in a way, I think NIL would have actually helped Lon to some extent. When he coached, all the money that changed hands was under the table, and he simply refused to cheat. Now, even if our NIL game isn’t as strong as some, it is at least something we can offer players.
 
Back
Top