Worst choke job I've ever seen at ou

[DenverSooner]

I don't understand all of this blame Kruger business. The 5 best players on the team are three still developing freshmen. One of which has a broken foot, one was in foul touble all night, and one with a current confidence problem when the ball is in his hand. A Wyoming transfer still trying to learn aggression and his place in the offense, and Osby. Past that, Kruger has nothing.

Last season we won 5 conference games with the talent to win 3. This season Kruger will likely at least double the conference wins. Posters that set their expectations too high and then blame someone else don't get much sympathy from me.

No way Cousins is one of the 5 best players on the team. He is probably number 9 right now. He may have potential but Cousins has some work to do before he is better than Pledger, Grooms, Fitzgerald or Clark.

I also don't think Hornbeak is one of the 5 best players on the team. When have either Hornbeak or Cousins won a conference game for OU? Grooms has played huge roles in several conference games. Fitzgerald carried OU in a game this year. Cam Clark was huge against A&M and has been a nice contributor in others.

 

[Laxtothemax12]

I honestly think they shouldve attacked the basket early when they had 2 on 1's instead of just killing time and not scoring. If they had done that, they wouldve scored a lot more and Texas' runs would not have been so great.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I wonder if not keeping Blair was a mistake. I know he's not that great but I think it was a mistake to not keep him around b/c it meant we only have 1 true pg on this team. Watching Cousins dribble the ball scares me and Grooms gets trapped so easily.

You can't be serious? :facepalm

Carl Blair is averaging 4 TO's per game at Prairie View A&M. He is much worse at handling the ball than Grooms and is ZERO threat to score. ZERO.

 

[garyeb2]

No way Cousins is one of the 5 best players on the team. He is probably number 9 right now. He may have potential but Cousins has some work to do before he is better than Pledger, Grooms, Fitzgerald or Clark.

I also don't think Hornbeak is one of the 5 best players on the team. When have either Hornbeak or Cousins won a conference game for OU? Grooms has played huge roles in several conference games. Fitzgerald carried OU in a game this year. Cam Clark was huge against A&M and has been a nice contributor in others.

I hate to remind you guys of this. The crowd seems to take it so bad. We have evidence. They had a scrimmage with the Kruger recruits vs the Capel leftovers. The Kruger recruits beat them handily. If they had played all day it would have just gotten worse.

There is one major contributing factor to this seasons turnaround. Last years starters are not on the court as much. While Cousins, Hornbeak, Buddy, and M'Baye weren't world beaters from the get go isn't important. The important thing is that their presence allowed Kruger to get Fitz, Cam, Grooms, and to some extent Pledger more bench time.

With the exception of Osby, last years starters were a flawed, fragil, under performing bunch. And they still are. Those players can not be on the court in significant numbers. That is the reason three of them were replaced in the starting lineup. When grouped together, they revert back to their old ways.

When the OSU game went into overtime and you look up and see four of last years starters on the floor, the party is over. M'Baye and last years starters were never going to be enough. That is why two freshmen have been in most games together. With Buddy hurt and Hornbeak fouled out last night, the party is over again.

With they exception of Osby, the Capel boys are a bunch of one deminsional contributors that can never be matched together into a productive team. Cousins, Hornbeak, Buddy, M'Baye, and Osby are the reason this team is 18-9. Without them it is 9-18.

 

[KBaden145]

Nothing really productive or significant this season has come bc Cousins has been on the floor. He needs an off season to become a really productive contributor. I think we would have benefitted from Sam getting more starts with controlled playing time vs the starts at PG Cousins and Hornbeak got.

Cam and Drew's contributions off the bench should be considered too.

 

[sooner 1234]

No way Cousins is one of the 5 best players on the team. He is probably number 9 right now. He may have potential but Cousins has some work to do before he is better than Pledger, Grooms, Fitzgerald or Clark.

I also don't think Hornbeak is one of the 5 best players on the team. When have either Hornbeak or Cousins won a conference game for OU? Grooms has played huge roles in several conference games. Fitzgerald carried OU in a game this year. Cam Clark was huge against A&M and has been a nice contributor in others.

Every basketball game is different, few players on this team are consistent . Grooms has been absolutely horrible at times and great at times, but as a whole subpar at best and since to the bench until an injury.

Cousins has been the same way, but he's a freshman you can expect that, same with hornbeak.
One thing the do have over grooms is that are both much better athletes .

Your right grooms played a lot of minutes last year..... On a team that sucked balls and had a losing conference record.

Same with fitz , he barely plays now and we are a much better team for it.

In your mind cousins obviously is one of the worst players on the team , but last night we know for sure who was the worst player on the court( both teams) GROOMS.
Look at the numbers cousins out played him last night........ But that's not saying much.
Point is we have one consistent player game in game out you know what your getting....... Osby...... Anyone else shouldn't be guaranteed anything or any minutes.
Grooms played maybe his worst game as a sooner , and should have been bench since cousins had already proven that night he was playing win ing basketball.

Grooms did nothing the first half but get two quick fouls, cousins came in and out played him.
I'll put it this way had cousins played like be did the first half, we coast to a 15 point win.
Kruger messed up and stuck with a guy that has never been consistent since he has been here and wAs easily out matched athletically against the Texas guards.

He stuck with his sr to get some toughness , problem is he played like a freshman.

Grooms played like **** and Kruger never made changes thus a 22 point lead went up in smoke, bottom line he didn't go with his hot hand that night.

 

[sooner 1234]

I honestly think they shouldve attacked the basket early when they had 2 on 1's instead of just killing time and not scoring. If they had done that, they wouldve scored a lot more and Texas' runs would not have been so great.

You also get texas more time =more possessions =more inbounds traps=
more turnovers.
Our problem wasnt scoring or running the clock it was turnovers and no defense

 

[DenverSooner]

I hate to remind you guys of this. The crowd seems to take it so bad. We have evidence. They had a scrimmage with the Kruger recruits vs the Capel leftovers. The Kruger recruits beat them handily. If they had played all day it would have just gotten worse.

There is one major contributing factor to this seasons turnaround. Last years starters are not on the court as much. While Cousins, Hornbeak, Buddy, and M'Baye weren't world beaters from the get go isn't important. The important thing is that their presence allowed Kruger to get Fitz, Cam, Grooms, and to some extent Pledger more bench time.

With the exception of Osby, last years starters were a flawed, fragil, under performing bunch. And they still are. Those players can not be on the court in significant numbers. That is the reason three of them were replaced in the starting lineup. When grouped together, they revert back to their old ways.

When the OSU game went into overtime and you look up and see four of last years starters on the floor, the party is over. M'Baye and last years starters were never going to be enough. That is why two freshmen have been in most games together. With Buddy hurt and Hornbeak fouled out last night, the party is over again.

With they exception of Osby, the Capel boys are a bunch of one deminsional contributors that can never be matched together into a productive team. Cousins, Hornbeak, Buddy, M'Baye, and Osby are the reason this team is 18-9. Without them it is 9-18.

That the new guys beat the old guys doesn't mean Cousins in one of the top 5 players. At best it means he is better than the worst starter from last year but really it doesn't even mean that. To me what it actually means is the 4 new guys and a back up are a better defensive team. Cousins might be a better perimeter defender than both Grooms and Pledger but that doesn't mean he is a better basketball player at this point in his career. It would help the team he is on beat the team with Grooms and Pledger.

Lets look at stats.

Scoring leaders in order top to bottom: Osby, Pledger, M'baye, Hield, Clark, Fitzgerald, Hornbeak, Grooms, Cousins, Neal. Cousins is second from the bottom. I sure would expect one of the 5 best players on the team to score more than Sam Grooms. Sam is a good kid but scoring isn't his thing.

Rebounding top to bottom: Osby, M'baye, Hield, Calrk, Pledger, Fitzgerald, Hornbeak, Cousins, Grooms, Neal. Of the 5 guards, Cousins is second from the bottom. Notably, Cousins rebounds slightly better than Sam Grooms and Cousins is taller and a bit more athletic than Grooms so that makes sense.

Minutes played: Pledger, Osby, Hield, M'Baye, Hornbeak, Grooms, Clark, Fitzgerald, Cousins, and Neal. Cousins is second from the bottom. One would think Kruger would want to play his top 5 players the most.

Turn overs (lease to most): Neal, Fitzgerald, Clark, Grooms, Osby, Pledger, Hield, Cousins, Hornbeak. Cousins second from the bottom and significantly below Grooms. Wow, that sure doesn't look like one of the 5 best players on the team. I mean a point guard that can't score or hang on to the ball isn't very effective. Maybe he creates a lot of opportunities for his teammates.

Assists Most to least: Grooms, Hornbeak, Cousins, Hield, Pledger, Osby, M'Baye, Clark, Fitzgerald, Neal. Cousins is last of the guys that play pg. Again, a pg that can't score, hang on to the ball or create a lot of assists just doesn't seem like one of the five best players on the team.

Steals most to least: Pledger, Hield, Hornbeak, M'baye, Clark, Cousins, Grooms, Neal. Pledger, Hield, Hornbeak and Clark appear to be better perimeter defenders than Cousins.

Cousins simply isn't one of the top 5 players on the team right now. He is an athletic guy as demonstrated by his steals and rebounding that are better than Grooms but his turn overs and reduced scoring make him worse than Grooms in my opinion.

Arguably OU's 5 best players don't include a pg. One could argue the 5 best are Osby, M'Baye, Pledger, Hield and Clark the problem is you have to play a pg and none of those guys are pgs. Alternatively, one could argue that Hornbeak is in the top 5 but isn't a true pg.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

Quiet when we win. Once we lose, the same old chatterboxes with the same old agendas.......

 

[sooner 1234]

That the new guys beat the old guys doesn't mean Cousins in one of the top 5 players. At best it means he is better than the worst starter from last year but really it doesn't even mean that. To me what it actually means is the 4 new guys and a back up are a better defensive team. Cousins might be a better perimeter defender than both Grooms and Pledger but that doesn't mean he is a better basketball player at this point in his career. It would help the team he is on beat the team with Grooms and Pledger.

Lets look at stats.

Scoring leaders in order top to bottom: Osby, Pledger, M'baye, Hield, Clark, Fitzgerald, Hornbeak, Grooms, Cousins, Neal. Cousins is second from the bottom. I sure would expect one of the 5 best players on the team to score more than Sam Grooms. Sam is a good kid but scoring isn't his thing.

Rebounding top to bottom: Osby, M'baye, Hield, Calrk, Pledger, Fitzgerald, Hornbeak, Cousins, Grooms, Neal. Of the 5 guards, Cousins is second from the bottom. Notably, Cousins rebounds slightly better than Sam Grooms and Cousins is taller and a bit more athletic than Grooms so that makes sense.

Minutes played: Pledger, Osby, Hield, M'Baye, Hornbeak, Grooms, Clark, Fitzgerald, Cousins, and Neal. Cousins is second from the bottom. One would think Kruger would want to play his top 5 players the most.

Turn overs (lease to most): Neal, Fitzgerald, Clark, Grooms, Osby, Pledger, Hield, Cousins, Hornbeak. Cousins second from the bottom and significantly below Grooms. Wow, that sure doesn't look like one of the 5 best players on the team. I mean a point guard that can't score or hang on to the ball isn't very effective. Maybe he creates a lot of opportunities for his teammates.

Assists Most to least: Grooms, Hornbeak, Cousins, Hield, Pledger, Osby, M'Baye, Clark, Fitzgerald, Neal. Cousins is last of the guys that play pg. Again, a pg that can't score, hang on to the ball or create a lot of assists just doesn't seem like one of the five best players on the team.

Steals most to least: Pledger, Hield, Hornbeak, M'baye, Clark, Cousins, Grooms, Neal. Pledger, Hield, Hornbeak and Clark appear to be better perimeter defenders than Cousins.

Cousins simply isn't one of the top 5 players on the team right now. He is an athletic guy as demonstrated by his steals and rebounding that are better than Grooms but his turn overs and reduced scoring make him worse than Grooms in my opinion.

Arguably OU's 5 best players don't include a pg. One could argue the 5 best are Osby, M'Baye, Pledger, Hield and Clark the problem is you have to play a pg and none of those guys are pgs. Alternatively, one could argue that Hornbeak is in the top 5 but isn't a true pg.

Dude I don't care if grooms is up for the Naismith and the supposed best player in the country..........last night he was the worst player on the floor.
One great coach decided to keep him in and another great coach took advantage of it and won a game he had no business winning.
Last night the ONLY reason we could have lost was turnovers and giving up easy baskets.
Grooms is the worst defender( guard wise) we have on the team, and last night he had more assists to the Texas players then their starting pg.

The two things we couldn't do , we did.

Could have cousins played any worse( I don't think so) but if the first half was any indicator he would have played better.
All we needed was ONE less turnover or one defensive stop....... Just one.

 

[sooner 1234]

Quiet when we win. Once we lose, the same old chatterboxes with the same old agendas.......

Kruger has coached hundreds of games but I bet he's NEVER lost a 22 lead with 10 mintutes left.........it wasn't just some lost.

 

[DenverSooner]

Your right grooms played a lot of minutes last year..... On a team that sucked balls and had a losing conference record.

In your mind cousins obviously is one of the worst players on the team , but last night we know for sure who was the worst player on the court( both teams) GROOMS.
Look at the numbers cousins out played him last night........ But that's not saying much.
Point is we have one consistent player game in game out you know what your getting....... Osby...... Anyone else shouldn't be guaranteed anything or any minutes.
Grooms played maybe his worst game as a sooner , and should have been bench since cousins had already proven that night he was playing win ing basketball.

Grooms did nothing the first half but get two quick fouls, cousins came in and out played him.
I'll put it this way had cousins played like be did the first half, we coast to a 15 point win.
Kruger messed up and stuck with a guy that has never been consistent since he has been here and wAs easily out matched athletically against the Texas guards.

He stuck with his sr to get some toughness , problem is he played like a freshman.

Grooms played like **** and Kruger never made changes thus a 22 point lead went up in smoke, bottom line he didn't go with his hot hand that night.

My reference to Grooms having some big impacts were to his last three games (prior to last night) and his games against Missouri and A&M last year where he scored 17 and 13. I am pretty sure Cousins has not done that this year. I don't know that Cousins has scored 10 points in a game this year but he might have. Grooms also had 10 assists in 3 games last year and led the Big XII in assist to turn over ratio. Cousins hasn't done that and isn't even close.

I don't think Cousins is one of the worst players on the team. I just think it is absurd to say he is one of the top 5 players on the team. Cousins is a better defender than Sam Grooms. Grooms is a better ball handler and has better vision than Cousins. I think they are both nice players and neither really separates himself form the other. I think Cousins will be a better senior than Sam Grooms but both are solid Big XII basketball players.

With respect to last night, I strongly disagree that Cousins played better than Sam Grooms. Cousins got a lot of pt in the fist half and did not do anything. He missed both of his shots in the game and his only free throw attempt. Grooms doubled him in assists. Now it is true that Grooms had some turn overs but Grooms is the guy that faced the full court press. Kruger did not have the confidence to go with Cousins at this point in his career. I do not blame last nights loss on Sam Grooms. I think the team did a horrible job of breaking that press. Grooms got zero help. He didn't get it form his teammates or his coaches and he suffered from that lack of help and has to live with his 4 turnover. Nobody will be harder on Sam Grooms about those turn overs than Sam Grooms so he sure doesn't need OU fans to bash him. Those 4 turnovers resulted in about 11 points. Given the 22 point lead, OU should have won by 11 even with his struggles against the press.

If I were going to blame a single player (and I don't blame a single player) for the loss, I would blame Pledger. It is inexcusable that he fouled McClendon shooting that 3 with 16 seconds left when OU was up by four. Pledger is a senior and should know the scouting report and situation of the game. McClendon is a 27% 3 point shooter. In that situation OU wanted to deny Kabongo and Papapetrou the 3 point shot (those are Texas' best 3 point shooters). So that means Pledger should be denying the passing lane back around the perimeter and contesting the three while sacrificing (but not giving) the baseline.

I want to be very clear, I don't think there any bad basketball players on OU's team. You simply don't get to play college sports at any level if you are not talented and you don't get to play in the Big XII if you are not extremely talented. Every kid in this conference is an elite level basketball player. Obviously they are not all NBA players but very few people are.

I think Cousins is a good defender. I think he is going to play significant minutes next year and I look forward to watching him. I suspect Woodard, Hornbeak and Hield will start with cousins backing up all three positions but primarily the pg position. If OU doesn't sign another guard it will not surprise me to see Cousins playing between 20-30 minutes a game and probably closer to 30 than 20.

 

[DenverSooner]

All we needed was ONE less turnover.

You are choosing to pin everything on Sam Grooms. I just don't see it that way. Romero missed a free throw at the end of the game and missed 4 on the night. Pledger fouled McClendon shooting a 3 point shot with 16 seconds left in the game and a four point lead. Hornbeak missed the front end of a one and one at some point in the game. Hornbeak fouled out and had two turn overs. Pledger only scored 3 points in the second half. Kruger would probably say he made some mistakes. M'Baye got a 5 second count and wasn't getting to the ball and getting in bounds quickly. Pledger had four turn overs.

Grooms had 5 boards, 6 assists and 3 points. He was not the sole reason OU lost. He definitely struggled with the press

The team lost the game, not Sam Grooms or Isaiah Cousins.

 

[sooner 1234]

You are choosing to pin everything on Sam Grooms. I just don't see it that way. Romero missed a free throw at the end of the game and missed 4 on the night. Pledger fouled McClendon shooting a 3 point shot with 16 seconds left in the game and a four point lead. Hornbeak missed the front end of a one and one at some point in the game. Hornbeak fouled out and had two turn overs. Pledger only scored 3 points in the second half. Kruger would probably say he made some mistakes. M'Baye got a 5 second count and wasn't getting to the ball and getting in bounds quickly. Pledger had four turn overs.

Grooms had 5 boards, 6 assists and 3 points. He was not the sole reason OU lost. He definitely struggled with the press

The team lost the game, not Sam Grooms or Isaiah

Your pg is most important player in breaking a press. Every back court turnover we had last night cost us a chance at scoring, gave Texas numbers/ fast break on their end, and most important 25 seconds less off the clock.

The only way teams can come from deep holes are turnovers. Pledger was a huge reason ou got that 22 point lead , grooms was not.
Osby was a huge reason ou got a 22 point lead , grooms was not.
Calling them out is laughable, you think Texas is calling out Thier pg because he had a bad first half???( cousins guarded him in 1st)
Grooms barely played the first half and when he did come in the second , he played losing basketball.

Grooms might score 25 sat, that's not the point, the point is what happened last night , break a press and we win, simple as that.
When your bigs are having to bring the ball down, how's that their fault. When a player hits 5 threes Ina row , why call him out.
Grooms only job is to get the ball down the court and set up our offense
, he didn't do his job , simple as that.

Barnes picked on grooms for a reason.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Barnes picked on grooms for a reason.

Nope. Barnes pressed OU and we fell apart. They would have pressed even if Jan Pannell, Smokey McCovery, Ricky Grace, Mookie Blaylock, Quannis White, Michael Johnson, John Ontjes, etc., were playing PG for OU last night.

That's what teams do when they are way behind...they press and hope the opponent melts, and we did.

 

[DenverSooner]

Your pg is most important player in breaking a press. Every back court turnover we had last night cost us a chance at scoring, gave Texas numbers/ fast break on their end, and most important 25 seconds less off the clock.

The only way teams can come from deep holes are turnovers. Pledger was a huge reason ou got that 22 point lead , grooms was not.
Osby was a huge reason ou got a 22 point lead , grooms was not.
Calling them out is laughable, you think Texas is calling out Thier pg because he had a bad first half???( cousins guarded him in 1st)
Grooms barely played the first half and when he did come in the second , he played losing basketball.

Grooms might score 25 sat, that's not the point, the point is what happened last night , break a press and we win, simple as that.
When your bigs are having to bring the ball down, how's that their fault. When a player hits 5 threes Ina row , why call him out.
Grooms only job is to get the ball down the court and set up our offense
, he didn't do his job , simple as that.

Barnes picked on grooms for a reason.

I am not calling out Osby, Pledger, Hornbeak, Coach Kruger, M'Baye, or anyone else. You are calling out Grooms.

Basketball is a team sport.

With respects to the turn overs, Grooms had four. Look at the play by play. In the last 8 minutes of the game, OU had 5 turn overs in total. 3 were by Sam Grooms. They occured at the 6:45, 6:19 and 4:07 marks in the game. Grooms did not have single turn over in the final four minutes of the game and OU gave up a 9 point lead. How is that all on Sam Grooms?

What Sam Grooms did do is have one 30 second stretch of bad basketball with two glaring turn overs. He did not individually lose the game.

You may verify this here: http://www.soonersports.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2012-2013/feb27.html

 

[tycat947]

Quiet when we win. Once we lose, the same old chatterboxes with the same old agendas.......

You got that right! Football, men's and women's basketball, etc, etc. Same ol', same ol'!

 

[skyvue]

All we needed was ONE less turnover or one defensive stop....... Just one.

Or one less missed shot.

We went ice cold. The turnovers and the defense definitely hurt, but we still would have won if we'd only hit some shots. One can turn it around and say, "Even with the poor shooting, we still could have won if only we'd had fewer turnovers -- or played better defense." But that's the point: No single player, no particular deficiency lost that game. We lost in a variety of ways, a multitude of ways, and virtually every player contributed to the meltdown in one way or another.

 

[AdaSooner]

Or one less missed shot.

We went ice cold. The turnovers and the defense definitely hurt, but we still would have won if we'd only hit some shots. One can turn it around and say, "Even with the poor shooting, we still could have won if only we'd had fewer turnovers -- or played better defense." But that's the point: No single player, no particular deficiency lost that game. We lost in a variety of ways, a multitude of ways, and virtually every player contributed to the meltdown in one way or another.

Exactly! I can point to any number of mistakes and missed opportunities that could have changed the outcome of that game, if only one of them had gone OU's way.

Truth is, I did point to one of them, a very costly foul on a three point shot with 9 seconds left on the clock. But, just as the big lead we had was a team effort, so was losing it, and ultimately the game. That loss was on the team, not just one or two players.

 

[jerry]

Have read it all and if you want to net it out all the players and coaches lost a game we should have won. Now let's move on.