If you support Capel you don't have OU BB pride

[skyvue]

So, we substitute the three best players I just mentioned with three raw freshmen...and how many games is the 2007 team supposed to win?

Wait -- you're talking in circles. If "raw freshmen" can't be counted on to contribute -- if they don't really count, as you seem to be implying above, then the three that backed out of their commitments can't be cited as the reason the Sooners barely crept over .500 in 2007. You can have your freshman cake, or you can eat it -- not both.

And you can't just look at one team (the 2006 squad, in this instance), subtract the seniors and thereby assess the next year's team. It's not mathematics. Players grow, mature and improve. Look at Fitz -- for all his flaws, he's a much bigger contributor this season than he was last year.

AJ more than doubled both his points and assists from '06 to '07. Godbold made some good strides that season. Taylor Griffin scored well over twice as many points in '07 as '06, blocked nearly four times as many shots, delivered more than three times as many assists. So the 2007 team wasn't just the 2006 squad minus three seniors plus three freshmen. That equation doesn't begin to tell the whole story.

And I'll say it again, Coach Capel inherited more talent to in 2007 than can be found on the 2011 squad. And love him, hate him, or fall, as I do, somewhere in the broad area in between, that doesn't reflect well on him -- not five years into his tenure.

 

[Section31]

Wait -- you're talking in circles. If "raw freshmen" can't be counted on to contribute -- if they don't really count, as you seem to be implying above, then the three that backed out of their commitments can't be cited as the reason the Sooners barely crept over .500 in 2007. You can have your freshman cake, or you can eat it -- not both.

And you can't just look at one team (the 2006 squad, in this instance), subtract the seniors and thereby assess the next year's team. It's not mathematics. Players grow, mature and improve. Look at Fitz -- for all his flaws, he's a much bigger contributor this season than he was last year.

AJ more than doubled both his points and assists from '06 to '07. Godbold made some good strides that season. Taylor Griffin scored well over twice as many points in '07 as '06, blocked nearly four times as many shots, delivered more than three times as many assists. So the 2007 team wasn't just the 2006 squad minus three seniors plus three freshmen. That equation doesn't begin to tell the whole story.

And I'll say it again, Coach Capel inherited more talent to in 2007 than can be found on the 2011 squad. And love him, hate him, or fall, as I do, somewhere in the broad area in between, that doesn't reflect well on him -- not five years into his tenure.

YOU are the one who relegates the effect of losing ESSENTIALLY an entire recruiting class to THAT YEAR. The effects are STILL being felt IMO. As has been pointed out numerous times, that team MIGHT have been capable of a win or two more. So what. Let it go. MOST people realize a program has a hard time absorbing those kinds of losses and plan "B" players as replacements.

Sure those guys that were left could play a little, but hardly any of them had any experience to speak of. AJ was hurt, so you bringing him up re: that first season is just a reach. Yes, he played. No, not at full potential. Why would you refer to their stats being better as an indication of how good they were that year? THEY GOT TO PLAY MORE...that had more to do with their statistical increases than their growth as a player.

I tell you what. I'd just about as soon have opposing fans posters over here ragging on our own team/coach than some self-proclaimed, know-it-all that claims to be a fan of our team doing the same thing...OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN...but keep it up...what ever makes you feel good about yourself.

Oh, and as long as you continue that approach, I will not be replying to any more of your posts. I'm done with you.

 

[HeismanWatch]

I believe Capel gets another year due to his contract more so than anything else.

If he doesn't have a third place finish in the Big XII next season with an upset over UT or KU, OU will find a replacement.

OU basketball should never settle for "decent team" status.

I've gotten to the point of trying to stay away from following OU basketball as it is quite depressing to comprehend or even watch.

I actually have no clue what their record is this year, and I used to count the losses on one hand in the past to keep an eye on OU's tournament seed, hoping OU would win 21 games.

Hopefully by 2013 that will happen again, so until such time OU basketball record-watching is in hibernation.

 

[Soonerman82]

Don't you mean Chuck Long? lol

Fire Venables

 

[WaymanFan]

Wait -- you're talking in circles. If "raw freshmen" can't be counted on to contribute -- if they don't really count, as you seem to be implying above, then the three that backed out of their commitments can't be cited as the reason the Sooners barely crept over .500 in 2007. You can have your freshman cake, or you can eat it -- not both.

And I'll say it again, Coach Capel inherited more talent to in 2007 than can be found on the 2011 squad. And love him, hate him, or fall, as I do, somewhere in the broad area in between, that doesn't reflect well on him -- not five years into his tenure.

Yes, freshmen can be counted on to contribute, but THOSE three freshmen were not guys who could replace Taj, KB, and Terrell. Now, if James and Reynolds, the two prize recruits of the class, had stayed, I would have expected a 20+ win season.

As for your last paragraph, I completely agree.

 

[OUBig12Champs]

I have been fishing once or twice in my life, I will play! Now then tell me who you replace Capel with and then tell me how long you give them before you melt down on them? Will the Circle be unbroken...................

 

[SoonerBounce13]

 

[CoachTalk]

This is classic!

 

[bocabull]

Of all this great talent Capel inherited please do tell which one was All Big XII caliber? Because none of them made the 1st, 2nd or even 3rd team all conference.

Capel inherited a program devoid of talent and saddled with probation. It's just so funny to watch the least knowledgeable fans make the most noise. Reminds me of a tea party with old people yelling "The government better keep their hands off my Medicare".

Seriously can anybody name a coach who destroyed two programs worse than Sampson? His NCAA ban speaks for itself, as do OU and Indiana still trying to dig their way out of the hole he dug with his dishonesty.

 

[playmakr]

Although he has a field named after him, OU was not a national power under Owen. We were undefeated once and weren't even considered for a national title. We were just that little team in the great plains.

Bennie went undefeated 4 times, not 1. Not being a national contender wasn't his fault, as the east coast media didn't care to notice, and that was most of the battle. Teams like Army, Navy, Princeton and other Ivy League schools got all the coverage, and simply took turns taking titles, sharing titles, etc.

 

[soonernutt]

We are right in the middle of a rebuilding project. Bringing in a new coach right now would re-start that process. Is it worth it?

I'd rather see what this team can do next season with Osby, Goff, a newbie PG, plus almost everybody else returning and one year more seasoned. There is some potential for major improvement there. Why reboot it now and go through another year of upheaval. Just to punish Capel for what happened last year? It would punish us and the program more.

 

[DenverSooner]

I agree but a losing Big XII season next year will require a coaching change.

 

[Section31]

I agree but a losing Big XII season next year will require a coaching change.

I agree with this...

 

[25mob]

Of all this great talent Capel inherited please do tell which one was All Big XII caliber? Because none of them made the 1st, 2nd or even 3rd team all conference.

Capel inherited a program devoid of talent and saddled with probation. It's just so funny to watch the least knowledgeable fans make the most noise. Reminds me of a tea party with old people yelling "The government better keep their hands off my Medicare".

Seriously can anybody name a coach who destroyed two programs worse than Sampson? His NCAA ban speaks for itself, as do OU and Indiana still trying to dig their way out of the hole he dug with his dishonesty.

Best post I've read on here in a very very long time.

 

[stoops4pres]

Capel inherited a program devoid of talent and saddled with probation.

This.

Its fine and understandable to blame Capel for the state of the program now. But he shouldn't get the blame for OU's struggles in '06-07. That season was beyond his control.

 

[MsProudSooner]

Of all this great talent Capel inherited please do tell which one was All Big XII caliber? Because none of them made the 1st, 2nd or even 3rd team all conference.

Capel inherited a program devoid of talent and saddled with probation. It's just so funny to watch the least knowledgeable fans make the most noise. Reminds me of a tea party with old people yelling "The government better keep their hands off my Medicare".

Seriously can anybody name a coach who destroyed two programs worse than Sampson? His NCAA ban speaks for itself, as do OU and Indiana still trying to dig their way out of the hole he dug with his dishonesty.

You were doing pretty well until your last paragraph. I'm certainly not one of those that is screaming for Jeff's head. But please don't use the NCAA's hypocrisy to justify your argument. Put Kelvin in Jeff's shoes that first year, with the same players and we wouldn't have been world beaters, but we probably would have won more games.

Carry on with your enless arguments....

 

[Section31]

You were doing pretty well until your last paragraph. I'm certainly not one of those that is screaming for Jeff's head. But please don't use the NCAA's hypocrisy to justify your argument. Put Kelvin in Jeff's shoes that first year, with the same players and we wouldn't have been world beaters, but we probably would have won more games.

Carry on with your enless arguments....

1 or 2 maybe...maybe. We're dealing in hypotheticals again. As has been pointed out numerous times, the previous team won 20 games and lost Gray, Bookout and Everett. JCs first team won 16, so MAYBE KS gets them to 18.

KS was GREAT at maximizing his talent...no doubt.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Seriously can anybody name a coach who destroyed two programs worse than Sampson? His NCAA ban speaks for itself, as do OU and Indiana still trying to dig their way out of the hole he dug with his dishonesty.

seriously?

 

[Sooner04]

Indiana certainly.

Us, well, Indiana would kill to have had the success we've had since Kelvin bailed.

 

[Section31]

seriously?

"Destroying" is a STRONG word, but KS does have SOME blame for the state of both programs today.

I agree with most however...the NCAA and its ruling on this type of infraction seems a little over the top.