Is the Pressure Going To Increase On Sherri?

[SoonerSpock]

Atlanta,

I'm sure I speak for most on the board when I ask you to instantly stop the sexist near porno remarks on our board. That is immature, rude, hateful, and unacceptable on a public board. Stop it now.

You need to take a deep breath and stop drinking the Kool-Aid. Bob Stoops has proven almost nothing to this point. Yes we finally won a conference title last year - in a league deeply flawed and weak - and substantially due to pure blind luck of a walk-on QB - who Bob & the boys did not think was originally good enough to deserve a scholarship. Talk about dumb recruiting. However he has lost to a terrible Texas team 2 of the last 3 years and should have lost the other if you recall. If you have been in the stands for those you know as well as I do that we walked into the Cotton Bowl 100% unprepared and with 0 motivation. Not a sign of even mediocre coaching.

We got in the football final four last year and then did exactly what his teams have done for years - laid an embarrassing egg in the semi-final game. Totally unprepared when we stepped on the field. Just like we have done for 3 years against Texas - and in bowl game after bowl game for several years. He fired several coaches and yet the same obvious lack of preparation keeps occurring. I love OU football - and our family buys more season tickets than (I expect) anyone else on this board. But we are still far short of the kind of success Barry or Bud brought us in their careers.

I believe we have lost out on a couple of prized recruits by WBB lately. I ascribe it to foolhardy parents letting their daughter put herself into a situation where young women are sacrificed to the appetites of an out of control football operation - that seems to have gone all the way to the top. My parents loved me too much to let me make such a mistake. Hopefully it will slow down - but since a murder between teammates didn't, I choose to wait and see. Even in WBB, how many WBB programs can you name that have been put on probation for recruiting violations? If you don't understand that cheating and even worse behavior can work for a while, you need to stop and think.

I have also been disappointed in the results the past 3 or 4 years. But since I understand basketball better than many of you I can tell you up front that most of our problems are due to poor shooting. That translates to practice - outside of organized practice time - by individual players. If our most important players would commit themselves to 90 minutes of shooting everyday outside of practice, we would compete for a conference championship yearly and make a final four even more often than we have.

Our team is designed to need to shoot well. It is up to the players to shoot well if we are to win a higher level. The coaches are limited by NCAA rules from requiring more practice. The players have to decide how badly they want to win. Next time we lose and hit 4 out of 25 3P attempts, get on here and put the blame where it belongs. On players who did not put in the work to shoot better. Just ask Buddy if you are doubtful that practice can help you shoot better.

By the way. No more talking about Texas WBB over the past 5 or 6 years. Last year they did pretty well. Before that they were a mess and a big, big disappointment. Far worse than Sherri's teams. Look it up.

Both Bud Wilkinson and Barry Switzer had weaker conference opponents than does Bob Stoops. If you look at the conference opponents of each coach and those opponents bowl records you find that Bud's conference opponents won 45.5% of their bowl games, Barry's 41.9% and Bob's 48.6%.

Bud's opponents records would have been much worse had bowl games not been limited to one team from the conference except for two season. During Bud's tenure the Big 7/8 had an overall record of +22 wins including OU's wa +107 wins. Bud did not lose his first conference game until his 13th season playing the six little sister of the poor. Terrible conference opponents!!!

Bud's non-conference record was 53-21 (.716), Barry's 65-17 (.792) and Bob's 66-15 (.815).

 

[BigTime]

If Sherri were being paid to primarily be a faculty member to teach and represent the university they would be paying her $150-$300,000 like their other faculty members. That additional $900,000 is to win basketball games and championships.

what are the minimum requirements of schooling to be considered a full-time teaching faculty at OU?

I hope it's at least a masters degree.

Back on topic, I think the caliber of recruits that Coach Coale has coming in this year and next (Ana Llanusa) is a step up and more like her previous impact classes. May take those kids a couple of years but I expect the team to be back where they belong soon.

 

[sybarite]

Both Bud Wilkinson and Barry Switzer had weaker conference opponents than does Bob Stoops. If you look at the conference opponents of each coach and those opponents bowl records you find that Bud's conference opponents won 45.5% of their bowl games, Barry's 41.9% and Bob's 48.6%.

Bud's opponents records would have been much worse had bowl games not been limited to one team from the conference except for two season. During Bud's tenure the Big 7/8 had an overall record of +22 wins including OU's wa +107 wins. Bud did not lose his first conference game until his 13th season playing the six little sister of the poor. Terrible conference opponents!!!

Bud's non-conference record was 53-21 (.716), Barry's 65-17 (.792) and Bob's 66-15 (.815).

I think this is false. The Big Eight in the seventies was head and shoulders above the SEC and Big Ten. It wasn't just that Nebraska, OU, and Colorado finished 1-2-3, we had teams like Missouri and Kansas knocking off Ohio State, Penn State, and Alabama with some regularity. Arkansas wasn't bad, but couldn't beat OSU. In any given year, the OU/Nebraska game probably matched two of the top three teams in the nation, despite what the polls said. The loser would drop to #6 or something while an SEC team that had played nobody would suddenly show up as #2. Remember how badly Nebraska beat Bama, and OU beat Auburn in Jan, 72? Did Bama ever beat Mizzou?

I also remember that OU played a pretty tough non-conference schedule. There was Texas every year. Then, we caught USC several times, Ohio State a couple of times. We played Pitt the year before they won the national title and beat them by how much? Miami was no slouch. We caught UCLA and Stanford a couple of times. There was always some team other than Texas. The weak teams tended to be weak power conference teams, like Oregon, Oregon State, Cal, North Carolina, Vanderbilt, etc. We weren't playing Southeast Louisiana or Troy State like the SEC teams were.

 

[SoonerSpock]

I think this is false. The Big Eight in the seventies was head and shoulders above the SEC and Big Ten. It wasn't just that Nebraska, OU, and Colorado finished 1-2-3, we had teams like Missouri and Kansas knocking off Ohio State, Penn State, and Alabama with some regularity. Arkansas wasn't bad, but couldn't beat OSU. In any given year, the OU/Nebraska game probably matched two of the top three teams in the nation, despite what the polls said. The loser would drop to #6 or something while an SEC team that had played nobody would suddenly show up as #2. Remember how badly Nebraska beat Bama, and OU beat Auburn in Jan, 72? Did Bama ever beat Mizzou?

I also remember that OU played a pretty tough non-conference schedule. There was Texas every year. Then, we caught USC several times, Ohio State a couple of times. We played Pitt the year before they won the national title and beat them by how much? Miami was no slouch. We caught UCLA and Stanford a couple of times. There was always some team other than Texas. The weak teams tended to be weak power conference teams, like Oregon, Oregon State, Cal, North Carolina, Vanderbilt, etc. We weren't playing Southeast Louisiana or Troy State like the SEC teams were.

I could care less what you think. I just spent 2 hours accumulating the data and I don't lie. And I resent you innuendo. But that is your forte along with questions and implications. I could be off a game or two with a clerical error but the trend is valid. And I double checked my work. Once again you don't know what you are talking about but what new.

I would provide you the links but if want to prove the data is false you do the work to disprove me. Otherwise zip your lip. For certain if you make the effort and do the work you will need to stick your tail between your legs. It is difficult to dispute facts despite your efforts.

 

[sybarite]

Your statistics have no foundation to back up the claim that Stoops played a tougher schedule. Show me an rpi or something. A winning percentage against the likes of Akron, Louisiana-Monroe, Florida A&M, recent Tulsa teams, Ball State, Utah State, and Cincy is supposed to be impressive?

71 Texas USC
72 Texas Clemson
73 Texas USC Miami (Barry's first year)
74 Texas Baylor (won the SWC)
75 Texas Miami #15 Pitt

You don't remember how strong Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri, and OSU were? These teams were killing the SEC.

We weren't playing the Monroe's, Akrons, and Florida A&Ms of he world.

 

[scrybe]

Why don't we dispense with the name calling?

This is not to agree/disagree with anyone's argument, but the top five college football programs of the 1970s (by winning percentage) were:

1. Alabama
2. Oklahoma
3. Nebraska
4. USC
5. Michigan
(For the record, Texas (of the old SWC) came in at No. 6)

The top five in the 1980s were:

1. Nebraska
2. Miami
3. Florida State
4. Oklahoma
5. Michigan

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

Both Bud Wilkinson and Barry Switzer had weaker conference opponents than does Bob Stoops. If you look at the conference opponents of each coach and those opponents bowl records you find that Bud's conference opponents won 45.5% of their bowl games, Barry's 41.9% and Bob's 48.6%.

Bud's opponents records would have been much worse had bowl games not been limited to one team from the conference except for two season. During Bud's tenure the Big 7/8 had an overall record of +22 wins including OU's wa +107 wins. Bud did not lose his first conference game until his 13th season playing the six little sister of the poor. Terrible conference opponents!!!

Bud's non-conference record was 53-21 (.716), Barry's 65-17 (.792) and Bob's 66-15 (.815).

Don't get it too complicated. When Bob can win 47 straight, or win the conference 13 years in a row - without a conference loss, I will say he has matched (not exceeded) Bud. We have not even been able to beat Texas - a lower level conference team 2 of the past 3 years. Bud never had problems getting his teams ready to play. Those were amazing years for OU football. No one - not even us - has matched it since.

Note that I'm not saying all this to downplay Bob. He is an excellent coach. Just pointing out that Sherri is not the only coach in the country - or at OU - who has not been able to keep winning at the same pace for year after year. Not even at the same pace OU has been accustomed to at times.

 

[SoonerSpock]

Your statistics have no foundation to back up the claim that Stoops played a tougher schedule. Show me an rpi or something. A winning percentage against the likes of Akron, Louisiana-Monroe, Florida A&M, recent Tulsa teams, Ball State, Utah State, and Cincy is supposed to be impressive?

71 Texas USC
72 Texas Clemson
73 Texas USC Miami (Barry's first year)
74 Texas Baylor (won the SWC)
75 Texas Miami #15 Pitt

You don't remember how strong Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri, and OSU were? These teams were killing the SEC.

We weren't playing the Monroe's, Akrons, and Florida A&Ms of he world.

I don't need to show you squat. If you want to show me something do so. My statement were about non-conference winning percentage are fact. You brought rpi so show what you can document not what you think. If you think that the schools not named Oklahoma and Nebraska in the Big 7/8 that could not beat OU, including Nebraska, for 12+ years were better than the Big 12 members in the day of scholarship parity I cannot help your blindness.

The number speak for themselve. Don't dispute without facts and your opinion is not fact convoluted attempt to make you opinion have value and most here know better than that. You only expose yourself say conference members that went 0-76-2 were a stronger conference than the present day B12.

You fail to grasp what is written. All I have said is the present day B12 conference is stronger than the 1947-1963 Big 7/8 conference was with documentation to justify the argument. Your document, oh I forgot you don't have any. You want to take an isolated game or two or 6 or 10 to describe 7-8 teams over 17 seasons. Poppycock!!!

Don't forget Bud went 53-20 (72.6%) against non-conference opponents and 92-9-4 (91.0%) against conference opponents. That should tell us all we need to know about how strong the Big 7/8 was in Bud's tenure.

 

[OUFinalFour]

Is there a legitimate reason why Bob Stoops gets paid 5.5 millions dollars? He is great for winning conference titles, but at OU, it's about national titles. He hasn't won one of those in 16 years! Unbelievable he gets paid like that. Some people choose to excuse his product on the field, which has been "ok" the last six or seven years, because of a game he won in 2000. He is not a Wilkinson or Switzer, if you ask me.

A little off topic, but I saw some posts that were directed towards Stoops and the football program.

 

[sybarite]

You have a fascination with your facts. You also have no sense of perspective to go along with those facts.

In 1947, there was no Big Eight (or Seven for that matter). Nobody in the plains had yet built a power. If anyone had, it was Nebraska, maybe Texas if you wanted a Southwest inclusion. Wilkinson (Cross) built a program. Once that program was developed, it did things like win 47-straight (and 30 straight). It beat all comers, once built. Nobody wanted to play Bud at the time. Notre Dame did. That's about all. The only shot he had to get a power was in the Orange Bowl. Did OU ever lose in the Orange with Bud? You do realize that he beat what others thought was the national champion. In fact, the #2 team in the Big Seven went down and beat the ACC champs one year. It wasn't that weak by that time.

Incidentally, Colorado and Missouri did beat everyone in the country not named OU or Nebraska. Did the Big Eight during the seventies and eighties have any team as weak as Kansas and Iowa State have been recently? The bottom of the Big Twelve, the lower four, are usually weak. There might have been one or two relatively easy marks in the Big Eight. Then, there is that Akron, Monroe, Florida A&M, type scheduling. Did Barry or Bud do that?

84%, 83%, 80%----what do those numbers represent?

 

[SoonerSpock]

Don't get it too complicated. When Bob can win 47 straight, or win the conference 13 years in a row - without a conference loss, I will say he has matched (not exceeded) Bud. We have not even been able to beat Texas - a lower level conference team 2 of the past 3 years. Bud never had problems getting his teams ready to play. Those were amazing years for OU football. No one - not even us - has matched it since.

Note that I'm not saying all this to downplay Bob. He is an excellent coach. Just pointing out that Sherri is not the only coach in the country - or at OU - who has not been able to keep winning at the same pace for year after year. Not even at the same pace OU has been accustomed to at times.

Thank you for supporting by point. With Bud playing against six little sisters of the poor for 60-70% of their games winning 47 in a row, 13 conference championships and going 76-0-2 in conference play over 12 seasons further confirms how weak the Big 6/7/8 conference was during the Bud era. Hell Bob may have been able to win 30-35 straight and probably the same number of conference championships against those never weres.

It seems to me none of you can comprehend my only point which is conference competition is better during the entire Stoops tenure than it was over the entire Wilkinson and entire Switzer era's due primarily to scholarship limitations that Bud and Barry did not live with. I have never said nor implied that Stoops was a better coach than either of the other two. In fact I too rank him #3. Loses too many games to double digit dogs, way too many. But that of this is not germane to my point regarding the competitive level of the conference during each coaches time leading OU. The numbers support that finding and biased opinions won't buy a good cup of coffee at McDonalds.

 

[annabelle]

Thank you for supporting by point. With Bud playing against six little sisters of the poor for 60-70% of their games winning 47 in a row, 13 conference championships and going 76-0-2 in conference play over 12 seasons further confirms how weak the Big 6/7/8 conference was during the Bud era. Hell Bob may have been able to win 30-35 straight and probably the same number of conference championships against those never weres.

It seems to me none of you can comprehend my only point which is conference competition is better during the entire Stoops tenure than it was over the entire Wilkinson and entire Switzer era's due primarily to scholarship limitations that Bud and Barry did not live with. I have never said nor implied that Stoops was a better coach than either of the other two. In fact I too rank him #3. Loses too many games to double digit dogs, way too many. But that of this is not germane to my point regarding the competitive level of the conference during each coaches time leading OU. The numbers support that finding and biased opinions won't buy a good cup of coffee at McDonalds.

+1

 

[SoonerSpock]

You have a fascination with your facts. You also have no sense of perspective to go along with those facts.

In 1947, there was no Big Eight (or Seven for that matter). Nobody in the plains had yet built a power. If anyone had, it was Nebraska, maybe Texas if you wanted a Southwest inclusion. Wilkinson (Cross) built a program. Once that program was developed, it did things like win 47-straight (and 30 straight). It beat all comers, once built. Nobody wanted to play Bud at the time. Notre Dame did. That's about all. The only shot he had to get a power was in the Orange Bowl. Did OU ever lose in the Orange with Bud? You do realize that he beat what others thought was the national champion. In fact, the #2 team in the Big Seven went down and beat the ACC champs one year. It wasn't that weak by that time.

Incidentally, Colorado and Missouri did beat everyone in the country not named OU or Nebraska. Did the Big Eight during the seventies and eighties have any team as weak as Kansas and Iowa State have been recently? The bottom of the Big Twelve, the lower four, are usually weak. There might have been one or two relatively easy marks in the Big Eight. Then, there is that Akron, Monroe, Florida A&M, type scheduling. Did Barry or Bud do that?

84%, 83%, 80%----what do those numbers represent?

Perspective my foot. You have no understanding of my point. I am not discussing how good OU was during 1947-63. I know how good they were but during that regime where they had the 47 straight and the 30 wins they also went 92-9-4 against the Big 6/7/8 and 53-20 out of conference. Obviously the conference opponent where far less successful against the mighty Sooners because most of them were crap most of the years. And yes the average Kansas and ISU would have beaten the average KSU team 39-126-4 with one winning season in 17 years averaging 2.3 wins per year. Then there is the 66-91-5 ISU team and the great 73-93-4 Nebraska team that had 11 losing seasons during the Wilkinson era. Real power they were. Remember we are not discussing an isolated team in an isolated year I am talking about 5,6 or 7 opponents and there average performance over 17 years.

During the Stoops era Kansas played in 4 bowl games going 3-1. ISU played in 8 bowl games going 3-5. During the Wilkinson era KSU and ISU had each had two winning seasons in 17 years.

 

[sybarite]

We're discussing different eras. The Iowa State and Kansas teams of the Switzer era, the bottom feeders of the Big Eight, were superior to the bottom feeders of the Big Twelve. We are talking about a conference after it is built.

 

[Salt City Sooner]

Well. Repeating posts, despite what political strategists say, doesn't make it true.

Think about it. You are saying the same thing that is being said on the Baylor boards right now (as always). "They only hate us because they are jealous."

If we hated Muffet McGraw or Geno Auriemma, that might make sense. Notre Dame and UConn are a lot better than Baylor, with much better tradition. They are a match for each other. I don't remember. Has Kim ever beaten either? Seems like Baylor wins in years that they aren't strong. But, we hate Kim or Briles or Ken Starr or whomever is being discussed at Baylor because of their success. Really? Want to sell the Baylor image?

I may be missing one, but by my count, she's 4-2 vs. Notre Dame, & 2-3 vs. UConn.

2010 season- National Title game, L vs. UConn, 70-50
2011 season- L by 1 point @ UConn, 65-64
2011 season- W vs. Notre Dame, 76-65
2012- season- W vs. Notre Dame, 94-81
2012- season- W vs. UConn, 66-61
2012 National Title game, W vs. Notre Dame, 80-61
2013 season- W @ Notre Dame, 73-61
2013 season- W @ UConn, 76-70
2014 season- L vs. UConn, 66-55
2014 season- L vs. Notre Dame, 88-69
2015 season- L vs. Notre Dame, 77-68

Also, since I had a little time on my hands, I looked up her record against a couple of other long time powers, Tennessee & Stanford. She's 5-2 against the Lady Vols, & 2-2 vs. Stanford.

 

[sybarite]

I may be missing one, but by my count, she's 4-2 vs. Notre Dame, & 2-3 vs. UConn.

2010 season- National Title game, L vs. UConn, 70-50
2011 season- L by 1 point @ UConn, 65-64
2011 season- W vs. Notre Dame, 76-65
2012- season- W vs. Notre Dame, 94-81
2012- season- W vs. UConn, 66-61
2012 National Title game, W vs. Notre Dame, 80-61
2013 season- W @ Notre Dame, 73-61
2013 season- W @ UConn, 76-70
2014 season- L vs. UConn, 66-55
2014 season- L vs. Notre Dame, 88-69
2015 season- L vs. Notre Dame, 77-68

Also, since I had a little time on my hands, I looked up her record against a couple of other long time powers, Tennessee & Stanford. She's 5-2 against the Lady Vols, & 2-2 vs. Stanford.

She parlayed the Griner crew. All wins during those years?

 

[SoonerSpock]

We're discussing different eras. The Iowa State and Kansas teams of the Switzer era, the bottom feeders of the Big Eight, were superior to the bottom feeders of the Big Twelve. We are talking about a conference after it is built.

Syb during the Switzer era only three conference teams had winning records they were OU, Nebraska and OSU. KSU was 41-133-4, Kansas was 65-107-8, ISU was 74-95-4, Colorado was 82-107-2, Missouri was 89-89-4. Dynamic powerful conference. :ez-laugh: Those teams were collectively 170 games below .500.

During the Stoops era there were 14 different teams in the B12. Ten of them had winning records for their time in the B12. Only Colorado 70-91, Kansas 74-129-1, ISU 84-124 and Baylor 92-115 had losing records collectively they are 139 games below .500. That is a plus 31 games positive for the Stoops cellar dwellers.

During the Switzer era only OU, NU and OSU had winning records for the era. During the Stoops era OU, Nebraska (106-49), KSU (133-82), OSU (130-81), Tech (131-84), Texas (160-59), Missouri (92-69), aTm (88-72), WVU (26-25) and TCU (34-17) had winning records for the era..

Syb's opinion is wrong again. Is senility setting in? I know my memory often betrays me in my later years and it appears yours does too. But I have learned to dig out the facts. Beats pis***g in the wind.

 

[sybarite]

You put far too much weight on record. That is how the SEC built its reputation. When your two leaders are going through the conference with basically a 13-1 record every year, it is easy for the other teams to have losing records.

Let's look a little closer. 1973: Missouri is only 3-4 in the conference. But, they were undefeated in non-conference play, knocking off #19 rated SMU along the way (after defeating Notre Dame a year earlier). The following year, they knocked off #7 Arizona State. A year later, they were only 3-4 in conference play again, but knocked off #13 Alabama. They did lose a non-conference game that year, to #12 Michigan. In 1976, Missouri was only 3-4 in conference play, but did manage to beat #8 USC 46-25, #2 Ohio State 22-21, and #14 North Carolina 24-3. They had a losing conference record, but they knocked off some top 20 team every year, even three in one year.

They were 3-4 again in 77, but knocked off #20 Arizona State 15-0. In 78, the upset Nebraska. So, they were actually 4-3 in conference play. They actually had a winning record. Of course, they also beat #5 Notre Dame 3-0. They did lose to #1 Bama, proving the sometimes Bama could beat Mizzou.

In 1974, Kansas was 1-6 in conference play. Yet, they beat Washington State, Florida State and Texas A&M in non-conference play, losing only to Tennessee. In 75, the year they upset OU, they were actually 4-3. In non-conference play, they were again 3-1 beating Oregon State, Kentucky,and Wisconsin. In 76, they were back to 2-5 in conference play. But, they were 4-0 in non-conference play, beating Oregon State, Washington State, Wisconsin, and Kentucky. In 77, they were only 2-4-1 in conference play, and they actually did have a losing conference record, losing to #9 Texas A&M and #14 UCLA. Of course, they also beat #15 Washington State. In 78, they were 0-7 in conference play. But, they did upset #8 UCLA 28-24. They played three non-conference teams in the top 20.

Having a losing record in the seventies in Big Eight play hardly made you a weak team. You had two giants at the top. Those teams with losing records were often having a field day against teams of other conferences. Notice that none of these teams were playing Troy State or Louisiana Monroe or Akron. They were finishing with a losing record in the Big Eight, but they were beating Big Ten, Pac Ten, and SEC teams.

 

[SoonerSpock]

You put far too much weight on record. That is how the SEC built its reputation. When your two leaders are going through the conference with basically a 13-1 record every year, it is easy for the other teams to have losing records.

Let's look a little closer. 1973: Missouri is only 3-4 in the conference. But, they were undefeated in non-conference play, knocking off #19 rated SMU along the way (after defeating Notre Dame a year earlier). The following year, they knocked off #7 Arizona State. A year later, they were only 3-4 in conference play again, but knocked off #13 Alabama. They did lose a non-conference game that year, to #12 Michigan. In 1976, Missouri was only 3-4 in conference play, but did manage to beat #8 USC 46-25, #2 Ohio State 22-21, and #14 North Carolina 24-3. They had a losing conference record, but they knocked off some top 20 team every year, even three in one year.

They were 3-4 again in 77, but knocked off #20 Arizona State 15-0. In 78, the upset Nebraska. So, they were actually 4-3 in conference play. They actually had a winning record. Of course, they also beat #5 Notre Dame 3-0. They did lose to #1 Bama, proving the sometimes Bama could beat Mizzou.

In 1974, Kansas was 1-6 in conference play. Yet, they beat Washington State, Florida State and Texas A&M in non-conference play, losing only to Tennessee. In 75, the year they upset OU, they were actually 4-3. In non-conference play, they were again 3-1 beating Oregon State, Kentucky,and Wisconsin. In 76, they were back to 2-5 in conference play. But, they were 4-0 in non-conference play, beating Oregon State, Washington State, Wisconsin, and Kentucky. In 77, they were only 2-4-1 in conference play, and they actually did have a losing conference record, losing to #9 Texas A&M and #14 UCLA. Of course, they also beat #15 Washington State. In 78, they were 0-7 in conference play. But, they did upset #8 UCLA 28-24. They played three non-conference teams in the top 20.

Having a losing record in the seventies in Big Eight play hardly made you a weak team. You had two giants at the top. Those teams with losing records were often having a field day against teams of other conferences. Notice that none of these teams were playing Troy State or Louisiana Monroe or Akron. They were finishing with a losing record in the Big Eight, but they were beating Big Ten, Pac Ten, and SEC teams.

First I made no reference to conference records vs non-conference records. I excluding discussing any conference games because they are against each other and the aggregate won/loss record for all conference games is .500. I looked a total season record for the coaching eras by team because it is all telling. No lies by omissions but you understand how that works.

More of your illusion by omission as you want to look at only at a few isolated games. The fact is Missouri was 89-89-4 for the 16 years they played against Switzer. They may have had some great wins but they also had 6 losing seasons including 5 in a row (15-38-2) while playing Switzer. You need to focus on all the games in all the years not just the select few good games that make things look much better than they actually are.

Ditto Kansas. You focus on 12 wins in 16 years when they played 180 games. More illusion by omission. You must factor in all the games to get the real determination of how strong an opponent was. Oh, the Jayhawks had 11 losing seasons, 4 winning seasons and 1 .500 year during the Switzer era including going 22-52-2 1982-88, almost half the time Switzer was at the helm. The hawks were 42 games below .500 for the time period. Enough said.

That takes care of Missouri and Kansas. We already know KSU was 41-133-4, ISU was 74-95-4 and Colorado was 82-107-2 while Switzer was at OU. So that means only OSU and Nebraska had winning programs as a conference opponent to Barry.

Twist, turn, munipulate, omit, select a few big wins and avoid the multitude of losses but the 1973-1988 B12 conference still was mostly crappy teams with 5 teams not even have a winning record for the period.

 

[SoonerSpock]

You put far too much weight on record. That is how the SEC built its reputation. When your two leaders are going through the conference with basically a 13-1 record every year, it is easy for the other teams to have losing records.

Let's look a little closer. 1973: Missouri is only 3-4 in the conference. But, they were undefeated in non-conference play, knocking off #19 rated SMU along the way (after defeating Notre Dame a year earlier). The following year, they knocked off #7 Arizona State. A year later, they were only 3-4 in conference play again, but knocked off #13 Alabama. They did lose a non-conference game that year, to #12 Michigan. In 1976, Missouri was only 3-4 in conference play, but did manage to beat #8 USC 46-25, #2 Ohio State 22-21, and #14 North Carolina 24-3. They had a losing conference record, but they knocked off some top 20 team every year, even three in one year.

They were 3-4 again in 77, but knocked off #20 Arizona State 15-0. In 78, the upset Nebraska. So, they were actually 4-3 in conference play. They actually had a winning record. Of course, they also beat #5 Notre Dame 3-0. They did lose to #1 Bama, proving the sometimes Bama could beat Mizzou.

In 1974, Kansas was 1-6 in conference play. Yet, they beat Washington State, Florida State and Texas A&M in non-conference play, losing only to Tennessee. In 75, the year they upset OU, they were actually 4-3. In non-conference play, they were again 3-1 beating Oregon State, Kentucky,and Wisconsin. In 76, they were back to 2-5 in conference play. But, they were 4-0 in non-conference play, beating Oregon State, Washington State, Wisconsin, and Kentucky. In 77, they were only 2-4-1 in conference play, and they actually did have a losing conference record, losing to #9 Texas A&M and #14 UCLA. Of course, they also beat #15 Washington State. In 78, they were 0-7 in conference play. But, they did upset #8 UCLA 28-24. They played three non-conference teams in the top 20.

Having a losing record in the seventies in Big Eight play hardly made you a weak team. You had two giants at the top. Those teams with losing records were often having a field day against teams of other conferences. Notice that none of these teams were playing Troy State or Louisiana Monroe or Akron. They were finishing with a losing record in the Big Eight, but they were beating Big Ten, Pac Ten, and SEC teams.

First I made no reference to conference records vs non-conference records. I excluding discussing any conference games because they are against each other and the aggregate won/loss record for all conference games is .500. I looked a total season record for the coaching eras by team because it is all telling. No lies by omissions but you understand how that works.

More of your illusion by omission as you want to look at only at a few isolated games. The fact is Missouri was 89-89-4 for the 16 years they played against Switzer. They may have had some great wins but they also had 6 losing seasons including 5 in a row (15-38-2) while playing Switzer. You need to focus on all the games in all the years not just the select few good games that make things look much better than they actually are.

Ditto Kansas. You focus on 12 wins in 16 years when they played 180 games. More illusion by omission. You must factor in all the games to get the real determination of how strong an opponent was. Oh, the Jayhawks had 11 losing seasons, 4 winning seasons and 1 .500 year during the Switzer era including going 22-52-2 1982-88, almost half the time Switzer was at the helm. The hawks were 42 games below .500 for the time period. Enough said.

That takes care of Missouri and Kansas. We already know KSU was 41-133-4, ISU was 74-95-4 and Colorado was 82-107-2 while Switzer was at OU. So that means only OSU and Nebraska had winning programs as a conference opponent to Barry.

Twist, turn, munipulate, omit, select a few big wins and avoid the multitude of losses but the 1973-1988 B12 conference still was mostly crappy teams with 5 teams not even have a winning record for the period.