Lon's Recruiting Classes

Sweetest OU Girl said:
The coaches getting better recruits were almost all blatant cheaters - as is becoming well documented. That is the main issue with recruiting. The NCAA can fix it, but will not for some reason.

How to fix it? Easy. You are a player (or a family member) who takes a bribe of cash, you just lost 2 years eligibility - no excuses allowed - you are fundamentally dishonest - a cheater. A coach who allows it, you never coach at any level of the NCAA again - with no exceptions. The school? No post season play for 5 years. Your program is destroyed - maybe for 20 years.

The reason that works is it totally ends the cheating. Just would never be worth it. For player or coach. And certainly not for the school, the AD, and the University president.
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Then all a booster would have to do to get a coach fired would be to pay a player and say the coach knew. You also realize that our Final 4 team wouldn't have happened because of the $100 players received on the Bahama trip.
 
WTSooner said:
Yeah, I agree with Boulder. ON PAPER the recruiting is just fine. Either LK and staff are landing every overrated recruit in America, or they just aren't very good at player development.
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Agree. The recruiting classes on paper are better than I ever expected. As for player development I also agree but there is player development and then there is also coaching guys on how to do the little things - proper way for bigs to help/position on D, how to protect the ball, how to keep eyes focused on the rim and still score with contact, etc. I see player neither skill development nor coaching guys how to play proper basketball.

LK runs a great program and is a very good recruiter. Sampson did some questionable things but was a much better developer of players and coaching the small things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
sperry said:
This is bogus. Here are recruiting rankings since Kruger arrived:

2012: 49th
2013: 81st
2014: 34th
2015: 51st
2016: 27th
2017: 33rd
2018: 108th


Recruiting rankings aren't the be all end all, but our performance is matching the story that those ratings are telling us. Those aren't being supplemented with impact transfers. The talent level isn't there to win at the level we are accustomed to.
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Class rankings when you’re only talking about 2 or 3 kids seem pretty trivial. Why not just look at the rankings for the 2 or 3 kids?

And outside of ‘13 and ‘18 the rankings seem solid. And those are low because they only had room for 2 kids each year.
 
BCSooners said:
Cousins & Hield had very good sophomore & Junior years.
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Yes they did. Both averaged double figures in scoring. Isaiah with 11 and 12 his sophomore and junior seasons, and Buddy with 17 each season.
 
Current roster has

1 5 star player: Trae Young, Freshman

3 4 star players: Doolittle, McGusty, Manek. That's 2 sophomores, 1 freshman

7 3 star players: Freeman, Shep, Muni, Lattin, Odomes, James, and Polla. This is our upper class, with 1 senior in it.


Talent isn't the issue, it's the lack of leadership. Nobody complained about talent at the beginning of the year. Nobody complained about talent when we beat Wichita State. It's always been the leadership issue, because there's no experience on this team. When things got tough, everyone packs it up. They don't have a leader like Buddy, Cousins, or Spangler was when they were here, who got in your face when you messed up. James tries to do that sometimes, but nobody else does.
 
Matthew G said:
Current roster has

1 5 star player: Trae Young, Freshman

3 4 star players: Doolittle, McGusty, Manek. That's 2 sophomores, 1 freshman

7 3 star players: Freeman, Shep, Muni, Lattin, Odomes, James, and Polla. This is our upper class, with 1 senior in it.


Talent isn't the issue, it's the lack of leadership. Nobody complained about talent at the beginning of the year. Nobody complained about talent when we beat Wichita State. It's always been the leadership issue, because there's no experience on this team. When things got tough, everyone packs it up. They don't have a leader like Buddy, Cousins, or Spangler was when they were here, who got in your face when you messed up. James tries to do that sometimes, but nobody else does.
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Agreed. I don't know how many times Spangler got in Lattin's face & Buddy practically rode James the entire year.

If the coach has to be the coach & team leader then you won't be very successful.
 
152219 said:
How much of that was Henson and how much of that was Hield/Cousins being gym rats and getting in their own work? Probably a combination, but I lean toward the biggest factor being Hield/Cousins doing their own work on the side.
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This. I think Henson and Hill worked very well at OU due to being with Kruger for years before OU. I mean, Henson worked with Kruger almost everywhere he went. Hill started at UNLV and continued at OU. A lot of people point to Buddy and Cousins, yet nobody talks about anyone before them. Nobody mentions anyone from 2011/12, or 12/13, or really 13/14. People talk about Buddy and Cousins progression, but other than that, nothing.

Like I said, I enjoyed Henson and Hill at OU, because I think they worked great under Kruger, but I think a lot of that is because of continuity, rather than being amazing developers of talent.
 
WTSooner said:
What were our recruiting rankings under Kelvin? Couldn't have been much better/different.

I get that we don't have the talent to be consistently competing with Duke, Nova, Kentucky, and even KU.....but you can't tell me we don't have the talent to be better than we are.
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Kelvin relied heavily on JUCO recruiting, which is a completely different animal.

As is, I do think we have a talent issue. We are relying on guys who are either not ready or not good enough to contribute at the levels we're asking them to.
 
Matthew G said:
Current roster has

1 5 star player: Trae Young, Freshman

3 4 star players: Doolittle, McGusty, Manek. That's 2 sophomores, 1 freshman

7 3 star players: Freeman, Shep, Muni, Lattin, Odomes, James, and Polla. This is our upper class, with 1 senior in it.


Talent isn't the issue, it's the lack of leadership. Nobody complained about talent at the beginning of the year. Nobody complained about talent when we beat Wichita State. It's always been the leadership issue, because there's no experience on this team. When things got tough, everyone packs it up. They don't have a leader like Buddy, Cousins, or Spangler was when they were here, who got in your face when you messed up. James tries to do that sometimes, but nobody else does.
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Freeman Lattin odomes james and polla wre 4 star recruits
 
WTSooner said:
Not really. Both had ONE really good season, their senior year, that was mostly predicated on shooting a ridiculously good percentage from 3.

But even if you toss him/them those two, that is two out of how many?
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Buddy was 2nd team All Big 12 his sophomore year and his junior year he was Big 12 POY and a 3rd team All American.

And Cousins was almost the exact same player his last 3 years at OU, but did have a small uptick every year in his scoring.
 
Buddy didn't do anything better his junior year than his sophmore year, except get to the FT line. Both regular and 3 point shooting percentages decreased. TO's increased (though minor).

Some of you are forgetting how frustrated fans were with those guys until they REALLY broke out their senior years. Maybe that is moreso true with Cousins, but it applies some to Buddy as well.
 
WTSooner said:
Buddy didn't do anything better his junior year than his sophmore year, except get to the FT line. Both regular and 3 point shooting percentages decreased. TO's increased (though minor).

Some of you are forgetting how frustrated fans were with those guys until they REALLY broke out their senior years. Maybe that is moreso true with Cousins, but it applies some to Buddy as well.
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People were typically frustrated with Cousins because of his 3-4 brain farts during each game and because he was really hard on himself and had some seriously poor body language.

Buddy was Big 12 POY his junior year, to say he only had one good season isn't correct.
 
hoopsaustin said:
Kelvin could take 2 stars and have a winning record in conference. He was such an underrated coach
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Kelvin recruited to a particular system... he didn't recruit best overall player. He was pretty clear on that... He wanted some shooters, guys with great work ethic, a slasher, some rebounders, etc. Kelvin even used to say he wanted 3 "really solid" players and then filled roles around them.

Unless you can recruit all blue chippers, I like this approach better...

Mike Anderson at Arkansas is a good example of a system coach... They may not have the highest rated guys in town, but they recruit to their needs and do their system.

This has been a problem with Capel and Lon... They try to chase the blue chippers, strike out, and end up with guys who really don't belong at OU. Then the talent pool is pretty thin and their styles rely on better players to deliver. Whereas a true "system" school can succeed with less talented players as long as roles are filled, people buy into their role, and they work as a team to execute the system.

It's like option football.... Army won 10 games last year. They beat a pretty good San Diego State team in a bowl game and completed 1 pass (on 3 attempts) for 6 yards. Army probably doesn't even have a single player on roster that could play at San Diego State, yet, they won. Because they have a system, they bought into the system, they have a fantastic coach, and they execute. They had 87 rushing attempts in that game, and scored 42 points.

Look at a team like Kansas.... they can't beat anyone in football. And schools with guys who aren't good enough to even play at Kansas are winning bowl games because they have a system that is executed.

Not that hard...
 
WTSooner said:
Buddy didn't do anything better his junior year than his sophmore year, except get to the FT line. Both regular and 3 point shooting percentages decreased. TO's increased (though minor).

Some of you are forgetting how frustrated fans were with those guys until they REALLY broke out their senior years. Maybe that is moreso true with Cousins, but it applies some to Buddy as well.
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He rebounded better. For you to say Buddy only had had “one really good season” is ridiculous. He was conference POY as a junior.

He had 3 fantastic seasons. One of those was other worldly.
 
Head coaches really don’t recruit. They run the practices. Kruger has to rely on his 3 assistant coaches to evaluate talent and do most of the recruiting. I think Crutchfield does a pretty good job, but don’t know about Hartman or little Kruger.

I think Lon needs a “bad cop” coach. Steve Henson would do that. I haven’t observed the other guys in practice...... or working with players one-on-one. No question Lon runs the practices with a lot of precision. He doesn’t yell or cuss..... but somebody needs to keep these guys on their toes.

Finally, there are obviously some things going on in the locker room that most of us don’t know about. There probably need some players and maybe coaches “processed” during the off season. Quite frankly, we have several players who aren't good enough to play high D1 basketball IMHO. Some others need to get their head screwed on right.
 
BoulderSooner said:
which is not the end all be all ranking
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No, but most believe it is the best, as it averages all the services. Saying Freeman is a 4 star recruit is laughable at best, considering how much recruiting went on with him, which wasn't much.

Christian James, and Odomes are similar in that regard, considering their offer sheets.
 
Matthew G said:
Christian James, and Odomes are similar in that regard, considering their offer sheets.
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James got hurt during the summer before his senior year, and had a couple of surgeries. A lot of teams moved on after he got hurt. I had heard he was leaning towards committing to Oregon before the injury .... don’t know if true or not. He was rated the top shooting guard in Texas his junior year.

Odomes choose the Sooners over OSU, Baylor, and Marquette.
 
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