March Madness and Covid-19

[steverocks35]

The thing about hydroxychloroquine is not that it is a mythical drug, but it has shown in vitro activity "killing" the virus, and it also has immunomodulation properties which may tamper down the immune/cytokine response -- most people who end up dying from COVID do so because of a type Adult Respiratory Distress Syndrome (ARDS) which is not the virus killing you, it's the body's overwhelming response to virus killing you. So the immune system is actually the problem in a disease like this. It's why doctors have also tried steroids, but those don't show much benefit so far.

Azithromycin is not added to fight the virus. People with viral pneumonia often develop a super infection from a bacteria, which the antibiotic would treat. Any antibiotic that treats bacterial pneumonia could be used in its place. But that French guy used it, so there we are.

Hydroxychloroquine is cheap and has widespread availability. During a mass pandemic, that's a great option when you have little else.

I can confirm that hydroxychloroquine is part of the standard treatment protocol for COVID patients at 4 different academic centers (including the Oklahoma Health Sciences Center where I work, University of Kansas, UT Southwester, and Washington). Probably many more, those were just the first places I checked because I know people there.

And there is red tape holding people back from using it. Some states have kept doctors from prescribing it outpatient (where it is probably best used) and limited it to only inpatient. Completely asinine. Doctors prescribe medicine for off-label uses all of the time. No one should be telling the doctors they can't prescribe it for their patients. It has become political, which is unfortunate.

We need better data on it. But there is A TON of stuff in medicine that we do that does not have sufficient data.

People are getting confused by Fauci saying "it's not a magic bullet and we need more evidence." I agree with Fauci, but I also believe we should be using it. You can think both of those things at the same time.

Dr. Fauci was asked if he would prescribe it for one of his patients. What did he say? Yes.

https://townhall.com/columnists/lar...ne-to-patient-suffering-from-covid19-n2565678

That French study was fatally flawed and the journal it was submitted to rejected it because the conclusions that were reached were not backed up by good science or data.

 

[steverocks35]

Dr. Fauci:

Dr. Anthony Fauci of the National Institutes of Health was asked March 24 whether the drug was considered a treatment for the novel coronavirus.

"The answer is no," he said, "and the evidence that you're talking about ... is anecdotal evidence."

 

[coolm]

You're right about that, that's why it can cause arrythmias because the heart depends on a precise potassium gradient. Several patients undergoing the trials had to be removed from the trials because of a prolonged QT on EKG (this just means that an arrythmia is probably developing).

As far as antibiotics go, they are used to treat bacterial infections. I've been a bit puzzled why they are combining azithromycin with the hydroxychloroquines in the studies. Azithromycin is a broad spectrum antibiotic. I assumed it was to treat secondary infections, but I don't know.

Normally viruses are treated with antivirals or other therapies. HIV is treated with protease inhibitors. Of course antibiotics and especially anti-fungals are useful in HIV patients because of the risk of secondary infections.

ahhhh ... secondary infections. that makes sense. so we try to keep our body from drowning us inside by suppressing immune response and the zpack keeps secondary infections at bay. I didnt realize zpack was wide range. I thought it was specifically for respiratory issues.

I thank you and jk12 both. this has been helpful.

 

[steverocks35]

ahhhh ... secondary infections. that makes sense. so we try to keep our body from drowning us inside by suppressing immune response and the zpack keeps secondary infections at bay. I didnt realize zpack was wide range. I thought it was specifically for respiratory issues.

I thank you and jk12 both. this has been helpful.

By the way, I'm glad your friend got to go home from the hospital! Seems like he was there a long time, I can't imagine how debilitating it is...

 

[coolm]

The thing about hydroxychloroquine is not that it is a mythical drug, but it has shown in vitro activity "killing" the virus, and it also has immunomodulation properties which may tamper down the immune/cytokine response -- most people who end up dying from COVID do so because of a type Adult Respiratory Distress Syndrome (ARDS) which is not the virus killing you, it's the body's overwhelming response to virus killing you. So the immune system is actually the problem in a disease like this. It's why doctors have also tried steroids, but those don't show much benefit so far.

Azithromycin is not added to fight the virus. People with viral pneumonia often develop a super infection from a bacteria, which the antibiotic would treat. Any antibiotic that treats bacterial pneumonia could be used in its place. But that French guy used it, so there we are.

Hydroxychloroquine is cheap and has widespread availability. During a mass pandemic, that's a great option when you have little else.

I can confirm that hydroxychloroquine is part of the standard treatment protocol for COVID patients at 4 different academic centers (including the Oklahoma Health Sciences Center where I work, University of Kansas, UT Southwester, and Washington). Probably many more, those were just the first places I checked because I know people there.

And there is red tape holding people back from using it. Some states have kept doctors from prescribing it outpatient (where it is probably best used) and limited it to only inpatient. Completely asinine. Doctors prescribe medicine for off-label uses all of the time. No one should be telling the doctors they can't prescribe it for their patients. It has become political, which is unfortunate.

We need better data on it. But there is A TON of stuff in medicine that we do that does not have sufficient data.

People are getting confused by Fauci saying "it's not a magic bullet and we need more evidence." I agree with Fauci, but I also believe we should be using it. You can think both of those things at the same time.

Dr. Fauci was asked if he would prescribe it for one of his patients. What did he say? Yes.

https://townhall.com/columnists/lar...ne-to-patient-suffering-from-covid19-n2565678

I can understand limiting its' use though. Binding up potassium like that can be rather dangerous for the body. I mean, it IS quinine. It goes right through the lipid layer and into the cell and prevents the ion transfer that our body relies on for muscle operations and neurological firing.

 

[steverocks35]

By the way, the death toll for Covid-19 passed 12,000 today, it passed 11,000 earlier today. That puts it in perspective and shows the logarithmic growth pattern.

 

[sheepdogs1]

Doctors take an oath for a reason and that reason is not fluff. There are doctors who are cardiologists who have no problem prescribing chloroquine. Either they are aware of its side effects, as all drugs are not alone in that concept, or they are not aware of the effects.


The only reason why this needs to be pointed out is there is a segment of the population who would be best served if the drug was absolutely worthless (oh the pain). It's a "novel idea," but perhaps doctors should be allowed to be doctors.

 

[BoulderSooner]

Dr. Fauci:

Dr. Anthony Fauci of the National Institutes of Health was asked March 24 whether the drug was considered a treatment for the novel coronavirus.

"The answer is no," he said, "and the evidence that you're talking about ... is anecdotal evidence."

he also said he would prescribe it to corona patients

https://www.inquisitr.com/5962442/anthony-fauci-prescribe-chloroquine-coronavirus/

 

[BoulderSooner]

By the way, the death toll for Covid-19 passed 12,000 today, it passed 11,000 earlier today. That puts it in perspective and shows the logarithmic growth pattern.

for perspective


over 9000 people have died in 2020 from car wrecks ..



before this pandemic over 7700 people were dieing in this country every day

 

[steverocks35]

he also said he would prescribe it to corona patients

https://www.inquisitr.com/5962442/anthony-fauci-prescribe-chloroquine-coronavirus/

Yeah, with lots of caveats such as "if there are no other options." And he would take it "as part of a controlled clinical trial."

 

[steverocks35]

for perspective


over 9000 people have died in 2020 from car wrecks ..



before this pandemic over 7700 people were dieing in this country every day

So more people have died from Covid-19 in one month than have died from car wrecks in the entire year? WOW.

 

[BoulderSooner]

So more people have died from Covid-19 in one month than have died from car wrecks in the entire year? WOW.

the entire year is less than 3 months and 7 days

cornora was in the USA in mid Jan

 

[coolm]

for perspective


over 9000 people have died in 2020 from car wrecks ..



before this pandemic over 7700 people were dieing in this country every day

well riding in a car is voluntary and there are beneficial uses for cars so this is a very poor comparison. useless in fact.

 

[steverocks35]

the entire year is less than 3 months and 7 days

cornora was in the USA in mid Jan

Yes but more than 9,000 people have died of Covid-19 in the last month in America. WOW!

 

[steverocks35]

well riding in a car is voluntary and there are beneficial uses for cars so this is a very poor comparison. useless in fact.

And car wrecks are not contagious.

 

[BoulderSooner]

754,000

people have died in the USA this year apart from Corona

perspective

 

[coolm]

Doctors take an oath for a reason and that reason is not fluff. There are doctors who are cardiologists who have no problem prescribing chloroquine. Either they are aware of its side effects, as all drugs are not alone in that concept, or they are not aware of the effects.


The only reason why this needs to be pointed out is there is a segment of the population who would be best served if the drug was absolutely worthless (oh the pain). It's a "novel idea," but perhaps doctors should be allowed to be doctors.

same crap they said when they told me to take one of those before going to Iraq. I refused then for good reason.
https://www.legion.org/magazine/246...tYAwf-Cp1nwc0XGjqNpg635PZR6CbItQ6mTJkJr1Mm8hA

 

[steverocks35]

754,000

people have died in the USA this year apart from Corona

perspective

Covid-19 deaths are growing exponentially, is there another cause of death in America that is doing that?

 

[BoulderSooner]

Yes but more than 9,000 people have died of Covid-19 in the last month in America. WOW!

which is a tiny tiny number

 

[coolm]

754,000

people have died in the USA this year apart from Corona

perspective

perspective? I can pull back my scope and justify near anything by "perspective". those arguments are great on a macro level ... but we still must exist on a micro level and they fail there.