March Madness and Covid-19

[coolm]

That doesn't seem to support your claims that non-N95 masks "absolutely, positively 100%" work against coronavirus.

do you understand physics? if the filtering media is not HEPA quality and the particulate is smaller than the filter rating you still limit the plume effect by the filter effects on air velocity. thats simple physics. do I need to produce work from davinci and bernouli? do you need to know some pump curves too? dude, give it a rest. masks reduce your threat to others. period. it's not just to think you're doing something. argue all you want but you're wrong if you believe that tripe.

Oh, and I said his STATEMENT was 100% wrong. You're taking things out of context and warping the meaning.

 

[Eielson]

do you understand physics? if the filtering media is not HEPA quality and the particulate is smaller than the filter rating you still limit the plume effect by the filter effects on air velocity. thats simple physics. do I need to produce work from davinci and bernouli? do you need to know some pump curves too? dude, give it a rest. masks reduce your threat to others. period. it's not just to think you're doing something. argue all you want but you're wrong if you believe that tripe.

Oh, and I said his STATEMENT was 100% wrong. You're taking things out of context and warping the meaning.

You've been rude to vbad, and you've been rude to me, but you've yet to provide any evidence that wearing non-N95 masks is that effective. Again, if there is any literature out there supporting the use of cloth masks, I'd love to see it.

 

[coolm]

You've been rude to vbad, and you've been rude to me, but you've yet to provide any evidence that wearing non-N95 masks is that effective. Again, if there is any literature out there supporting the use of cloth masks, I'd love to see it.

Now you want evidence that non-N95 masks are "that" effective. You don't even read what people write. And I wasn't "rude" to anyone. You've been "rude" to me. Now learn something about epistemology and the actual science you're speaking of instead of playing tekkie. Simple physics suggest you could cover your mouth and nose with a muffler and make a difference in the resulting aerosol plume. But I guess we could time travel back and speak to Bernouli for testing if that would make you feel better. I tend to just believe it due to having ridden in jets and drawn vacuum on main and TG condensers among other things where Bernoulli's equation is theory to practice. I also draft cars and trucks when I bike ... also Bernoulli. If you need a study for that then you're just playing tekkie.

 

[WTSooner]

Now you want evidence that non-N95 masks are "that" effective. You don't even read what people write. And I wasn't "rude" to anyone. You've been "rude" to me. Now learn something about epistemology and the actual science you're speaking of instead of playing tekkie. Simple physics suggest you could cover your mouth and nose with a muffler and make a difference in the resulting aerosol plume. But I guess we could time travel back and speak to Bernouli for testing if that would make you feel better. I tend to just believe it due to having ridden in jets and drawn vacuum on main and TG condensers among other things where Bernoulli's equation is theory to practice. I also draft cars and trucks when I bike ... also Bernoulli. If you need a study for that then you're just playing tekkie.

lmao

 

[Eielson]

Now you want evidence that non-N95 masks are "that" effective. You don't even read what people write. And I wasn't "rude" to anyone. You've been "rude" to me. Now learn something about epistemology and the actual science you're speaking of instead of playing tekkie. Simple physics suggest you could cover your mouth and nose with a muffler and make a difference in the resulting aerosol plume. But I guess we could time travel back and speak to Bernouli for testing if that would make you feel better. I tend to just believe it due to having ridden in jets and drawn vacuum on main and TG condensers among other things where Bernoulli's equation is theory to practice. I also draft cars and trucks when I bike ... also Bernoulli. If you need a study for that then you're just playing tekkie.

Do you have any evidence that the way people are currently using masks in public is effective, or should we just stick with vbdad's quote listed below?

"So wear a mask but realize it may help but realize there are serious limitations. It is mostly something to make people feel as if they are doing something."

 

[coolm]

Do you have any evidence that the way people are currently using masks in public is effective, or should we just stick with vbdad's quote listed below?

"So wear a mask but realize it may help but realize there are serious limitations. It is mostly something to make people feel as if they are doing something."

and now it's "the way people are wearing masks" ... you keep trying to further distort the threshold to make yourself sound more reasonable.

and as for following vbdad ... if you wish to follow the people who don't know jack about a particular topic then more power to you. it's just more ignorance.

 

[Eielson]

and now it's "the way people are wearing masks" ... you keep trying to further distort the threshold to make yourself sound more reasonable.

and as for following vbdad ... if you wish to follow the people who don't know jack about a particular topic then more power to you. it's just more ignorance.

Whether or not the way we've been using masks in public is effective has been the topic of debate this entire time. The topic hasn't changed -- I literally quoted the original post in question, yet you still pretend I'm moving the goalposts.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

do you understand physics? if the filtering media is not HEPA quality and the particulate is smaller than the filter rating you still limit the plume effect by the filter effects on air velocity. thats simple physics. do I need to produce work from davinci and bernouli? do you need to know some pump curves too? dude, give it a rest. masks reduce your threat to others. period. it's not just to think you're doing something. argue all you want but you're wrong if you believe that tripe.

Oh, and I said his STATEMENT was 100% wrong. You're taking things out of context and warping the meaning.

If a clothe mask doesn't significantly reduce the amount of droplets coming off your person, I could see the case for them doing more bad than good due to the constant readjusting and touching and then touching other items.

I'm not sure if it is true but I have a hard time really thinking that clothe masks are doing much

And I'm an engineer before you want to go demeaning me

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Now you want evidence that non-N95 masks are "that" effective. You don't even read what people write. And I wasn't "rude" to anyone. You've been "rude" to me. Now learn something about epistemology and the actual science you're speaking of instead of playing tekkie. Simple physics suggest you could cover your mouth and nose with a muffler and make a difference in the resulting aerosol plume. But I guess we could time travel back and speak to Bernouli for testing if that would make you feel better. I tend to just believe it due to having ridden in jets and drawn vacuum on main and TG condensers among other things where Bernoulli's equation is theory to practice. I also draft cars and trucks when I bike ... also Bernoulli. If you need a study for that then you're just playing tekkie.

dude...take another toke

 

[sheepdogs1]

Whether or not the way we've been using masks in public is effective has been the topic of debate this entire time. The topic hasn't changed -- I literally quoted the original post in question, yet you still pretend I'm moving the goalposts.

If you ever ponder what would make the world spin in opposite direction at the same time I think that insight has just stepped on your elevator. Going up!!!!!!!!!!

 

[WTSooner]

And I'm an engineer before you want to go demeaning me

Yes, but cool is an attorney, ex-sub guy trained in stopping the spread of highly toxic materials, part time scientist, and overall guy that just knows more about everything than you do.

Kidding.

Kind of.

 

[coolm]

Whether or not the way we've been using masks in public is effective has been the topic of debate this entire time. The topic hasn't changed -- I literally quoted the original post in question, yet you still pretend I'm moving the goalposts.

no, you quoted me and questioned the quote. the quote was about his statement that "all the masks do is make them feel like they're doing something". A statement I called 100% wrong. false. incorrect. Then you somehow applied the 100% to the efficiency of the filters vice VBD's statement. I showed you could put ANYTHING around your face and curtail the plume effect (aerosol plume length follows the velocity of the carrier gas which decreases by bernoulli's equation) so it isn't "just to make you feel like you doing something".

But, that said, Let's follow Bernoulli's equation to make sure of the physics here. 1/2(density)(velocity at 1) + potential force at depth1 + P at depth 1 = the same at depth 2. It's a straight line so we can remove the pressure at depth differences and it's just 1/2DV1+P1=1/2DV2+P2. The pressure and velocity drop across the filter yields less force at point 2 to thrust the plume into the open air. of course in an open space the volume is infinite so that's an impressive loss of plume velocity. Do I really need to continue?

You obstruct airflow, you limit your plume. It's simple physics.

 

[steverocks35]

no, you quoted me and questioned the quote. the quote was about his statement that "all the masks do is make them feel like they're doing something". A statement I called 100% wrong. false. incorrect. Then you somehow applied the 100% to the efficiency of the filters vice VBD's statement. I showed you could put ANYTHING around your face and curtail the plume effect (aerosol plume length follows the velocity of the carrier gas which decreases by bernoulli's equation) so it isn't "just to make you feel like you doing something".

But, that said, Let's follow Bernoulli's equation to make sure of the physics here. 1/2(density)(velocity at 1) + potential force at depth1 + P at depth 1 = the same at depth 2. It's a straight line so we can remove the pressure at depth differences and it's just 1/2DV1+P1=1/2DV2+P2. The pressure and velocity drop across the filter yields less force at point 2 to thrust the plume into the open air. of course in an open space the volume is infinite so that's an impressive loss of plume velocity. Do I really need to continue?

You obstruct airflow, you limit your plume. It's simple physics.

Yeah, this is my understanding of why a mask, any mask, is better than no mask. It limits the distance traveled of any expelled droplets, protecting others.

 

[coolm]

Yeah, this is my understanding of why a mask, any mask, is better than no mask. It limits the distance traveled of any expelled droplets, protecting others.

This is the stuff they made us memorize for hours upon hours just so the ORSE (NRC reps) Captains can call you to a board and ask you to figure out changes in reactor power for speed transients called down from the bridge. You just use the pump curves (derivations of Bernoulli's equation) to approximate the rate of change. N=V, N2 = Hp, and N3=Power. You never forget those .

oh, in case someone wants studies for those ...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/affinity-law

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Yeah, this is my understanding of why a mask, any mask, is better than no mask. It limits the distance traveled of any expelled droplets, protecting others.

it may be. But did you notice coolm said you limit your plume?
There is still a plume.
And is leaving the virus on the clothe that you may touch a risk that has to be added?

I have been wearing a mask when I know I will interact with other people. But i've I'm at home depot in an aisle where noone else is? Probably not. If I'm checking out or returning something? Yes.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

This is the stuff they made us memorize for hours upon hours just so the ORSE (NRC reps) Captains can call you to a board and ask you to figure out changes in reactor power for speed transients called down from the bridge. You just use the pump curves (derivations of Bernoulli's equation) to approximate the rate of change. N=V, N2 = Hp, and N3=Power. You never forget those .

oh, in case someone wants studies for those ...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/affinity-law

just stop man. Stop trying to impress us with your equations. I'm well versed in Bernoulli and the Affinity Laws.

 

[coolm]

just stop man. Stop trying to impress us with your equations. I'm well versed in Bernoulli and the Affinity Laws.

that wasn't for you. I am sure you are.

 

[steverocks35]

it may be. But did you notice coolm said you limit your plume?
There is still a plume.
And is leaving the virus on the clothe that you may touch a risk that has to be added?

I have been wearing a mask when I know I will interact with other people. But i've I'm at home depot in an aisle where noone else is? Probably not. If I'm checking out or returning something? Yes.

If there’s virus on the cloth then you didn’t breathe it in and it’s doing its job. Would you rather not have a mask to catch it before it gets to your lungs? I don’t understand your reasoning.

 

[tooney]

Breaking news.......


White House directs staff to wear masks after officials contract coronavirus


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...l-times-administration-official-idUSKBN22N2OX

 

[paboomersooner]

If there’s virus on the cloth then you didn’t breathe it in and it’s doing its job. Would you rather not have a mask to catch it before it gets to your lungs? I don’t understand your reasoning.

Serious question. If proper protocol is followed, do surgical, N95, homemade masks etc. entirely stop the Coronavirus from getting to your lungs?

Through conversation, I understand there to be a video floating around the interwebs of a doctor showing the ineffectiveness of certain types of masks.

Supposedly, he uses a spray bottle of water and a surgical mask to demonstrate that at least some of the water can easily pass through the mask from either direction. I looked for the video but was unable to find it.

According to this article, https://davidson.weizmann.ac.il/en/online/sciencepanorama/can-face-masks-really-stop-spread-disease, surgical masks are made to filter out large droplets, not smaller aerosols. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't viruses smaller and lighter than water droplets?

"Surgical masks cover the mouth and nose and are effective mainly for stopping the large droplets, but they do not filter out aerosols. In addition, surgical masks do not confer full protection as they do not fit the face tightly."

In the case of the surgical mask, the fit is not custom so there are gaps between the face and the mask created, perhaps creating a small vacuum? If viruses act anything like water and many other things, could they follow the path of least resistance?

Even with the N95's, according to this article, masks don't stop everything from getting through.

"While masks may reduce the spread and infection of airborne pathogens, they do not provide total protection. Most studies found that the N95 masks do indeed filter more than 95% of all particles of aerosol size. However, they only provide 60-90% protection from viral infection in laboratory conditions.

Some studies show that the use of N95 masks is more effective in protecting against infection than surgical masks. In contrast, other studies have found no significant difference in the protection conferred by the two mask types."

The article is from March 2020, but I don't think the mask industry has seen a significant technological upgrade in the last two months.

I think what is being said is the masks can definitely help and the risk to breathing in viruses can be reduced. However, I'm with SB13. I think the mask thing is largely a dog and pony show.